# Let's abolish the word "penultimate" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 4, 2007, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726 "2007-04-04T16:31:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spiral\_Stairs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Spiral\_Stairs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiral_Stairs)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/1 "2007-04-04T16:31:05Z")
A recent misuse of the word “penultimate” in these fora for the articulate and clear-thinking has made me think the word should simply be abolished. Here is my reasoning. I would say the English-speaking population (in the U.S., at least) breaks down as follows: - 50% have never heard the word and have no idea what it means. - 40% have heard the word but are wrong about what it means. - 10% have heard the word and know what it means. Let’s throw out the 50% who have never heard the word. Chances are, you’re not talking to them. If you are, you know not to use the word because they will think you’re talkin’ fancy-talk. But even among the rest of the population, you have an 80% chance of being misunderstood. And your listener will likely propagate his or her misunderstanding. Ergo, ignorance spreads. Let’s say you’re the listener, and someone says “penultimate.” Chances are, you do a little calculus in your head. _Hm. Does this person know what that word really means? If I’m not sure, do I risk offending him or her by asking a clarifying question?_ There’s a whole can of worms, right there. You might offend, if you ask. So you probably don’t ask people who are only casual acquaintances or colleagues. But if your uncertainty is not resolved, then information has been transmitted quite imperfectly. Ergo, ignorance spreads. Other ways of expressing the same thought are just as good, if not as eloquent (read: fancy-soundin’). “Second-to-last,” for instance. Perhaps there comes a time in the history of a word when its misuse and/or obscurity has become so widespread that it should be retired. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/2 "2007-04-04T16:35:55Z")
I know it, and love it, and my friends understand it. It’s use is unlikely to lead to injury or death (as is the case with “Inflammable”). I say we keep it. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/3 "2007-04-04T16:39:03Z")
OK, you can have “penultimate”, but I still want to use “antepenultimate”. Then, instead of saying “penultimate”, I can just say “between antepenultimate and last”. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/4 "2007-04-04T16:39:33Z")
Ordinarily during such discussions I note the horrible fates that will befall those who misuse “penultimate” and “flammable” once I am god-king, but I think at this point my mere presence in the thread is sufficient. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/5 "2007-04-04T16:39:43Z")
I love it, and there are times when no substitute will suffice. How are people misusing it? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/6 "2007-04-04T16:47:01Z")
Google “penultimate achievement.” For some reason, this phrase really sticks in the mind of those Category 2’ers. Ferinstance, I had no idea that so many [dancers](http://www.danceart.com/gotjazz/wanted.htm) dreamed of having their second to last achievement being performing in a Broadway musical. But maybe the author of that page used the term correctly, and professional dancers are a morbid sort that tend to commit seppuku after they perform on Broadway and then do one other thing. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/7 "2007-04-04T16:47:25Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] OK, you can have “penultimate”, but I still want to use “antepenultimate”. Then, instead of saying “penultimate”, I can just say “between antepenultimate and last”. [/QUOTE] I also am a fan of “antepenultimate” and use it regularly. Today I’m not on desk for the antepenultimate shift! ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/8 "2007-04-04T16:49:54Z")
Noooooooo!!! One of my favorite lines (Don’t ask me why, it’s not about dolphins or 42 or anything common) from _The Hitch-hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy_ is: “Believe me, ladies and gentlemen, there’s nothing penultimate about this one!”\* From Max Quordlepleen, the host at the Restaurant at the End of the Universe (describing said end of the universe.) It was the very first time I came across a word that I chose to look up in the dictionary instead of it being assigned busywork. There’s nothing penultimate about my love for the word penultimate. It’s my favoritest word ever. \*from memory, but I think that’s right. It’s been about 10 years since I read it last, so I could be off. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/9 "2007-04-04T16:56:46Z")
Irregardless of your intense I think this is the most penultimate thread ever. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/10 "2007-04-04T17:20:27Z")
[QUOTE=Zsofia] I also am a fan of “antepenultimate” and use it regularly. [/QUOTE] If only for: > [@Michael Flanders](#): > > Then there flashed through her mind what her mother had said > With her antepenultimate breath: > 'Oh, my child, should you look on the wine when ‘tis red > Be prepared for a fate worse than death!’ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/11 "2007-04-04T17:26:25Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Noooooooo!!! One of my favorite lines (Don’t ask me why, it’s not about dolphins or 42 or anything common) from _The Hitch-hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy_ is: “Believe me, ladies and gentlemen, there’s nothing penultimate about this one!”\* From Max Quordlepleen, the host at the Restaurant at the End of the Universe (describing said end of the universe.) It was the very first time I came across a word that I chose to look up in the dictionary instead of it being assigned busywork. There’s nothing penultimate about my love for the word penultimate. It’s my favoritest word ever. \*from memory, but I think that’s right. It’s been about 10 years since I read it last, so I could be off. [/QUOTE] That sounds right to me. It’s also the first thing that pops into my head when anyone used the word. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/12 "2007-04-04T17:29:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Hm. Does this person know what that word really means? If I’m not sure, do I risk offending him or her by asking a clarifying question? There’s a whole can of worms, right there. You might offend, if you ask. So you probably don’t ask people who are only casual acquaintances or colleagues. On the contrary. Whenever anyone tells me about something being penultimate, I always ask them what the ultimate is. If they’re using it correctly, then there is some other thing which is ultimate, they say what it is, and additional information is transmitted. If, on the other hand, they’re using it incorrectly, it will become apparent, and it’s an opportunity for them to learn. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/13 "2007-04-04T17:46:54Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] If only for: [QUOTE=Michael Flanders] Then there flashed through her mind what her mother had said With her antepenultimate breath: 'Oh, my child, should you look on the wine when ‘tis red Be prepared for a fate worse than death!’ [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] Have some Madeira, m’dear! ---
**Author:** ![dwc1970](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a183cd/32.png) [@dwc1970](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwc1970)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/14 "2007-04-04T18:02:24Z")
While we’re at it, let’s cast out _quintessential_. A lot of people think it mean’s really, really important, as in five times as essential as something that’s just essential. That ain’t what it means, people. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/15 "2007-04-04T18:09:00Z")
(gee—nobody’s brought up Monty python yet, so I guess I’ll have to do it for you:) How in Og’s name are you going to do the [Last Supper sketch](http://www.mat.upm.es/~jcm/michelangelo.html) without the word penultimate? ---
**Author:** ![MrSquishy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@MrSquishy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrSquishy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/16 "2007-04-04T18:40:10Z")
So are you saying there are people that think “penultimate” means just the same thing as “ultimate”? ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/17 "2007-04-04T18:42:49Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] OK, you can have “penultimate”, but I still want to use “antepenultimate”. Then, instead of saying “penultimate”, I can just say “between antepenultimate and last”. [/QUOTE] Or, if you \*\*really \*\*want to mess with people’s minds, you can use “_postpenultimate_.” ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/18 "2007-04-04T18:44:55Z")
By abolishing it, we would be succumbing to ignorance instead of fighting it, now wouldn’t we? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Spiral\_Stairs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Spiral\_Stairs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiral_Stairs)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/19 "2007-04-04T18:51:42Z")
[QUOTE=MrSquishy] So are you saying there are people that think “penultimate” means just the same thing as “ultimate”? [/QUOTE] Yes. Many of them. And the eerie thing is, _they look just like you and me_. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726/20 "2007-04-04T18:55:38Z")
[QUOTE=Loach] Irregardless of your intense I think this is the most penultimate thread ever. [/QUOTE] FINISH HIM! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-abolish-the-word-penultimate/398726.md?page=2)