# Let's bring those jobs back... How? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448 "2016-11-19T18:20:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/241 "2016-12-05T13:54:25Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I assume from all the emoji’s you’re making a joke. But Trump would need to sign a Carrier deal every week for the next 30 years to save the same number of jobs Obama saved with the auto industry bailout (about 1.5 million). > > I think he/she(?) was being sarcastic? Because otherwise this is an example of dumb-as-shit partisan magical thinking. People seeing what they want to see. As you indicated, petro plants are not designed and built overnight and Trump isn’t even in office yet. Much in the same way that Obama gets the blame for the Republicans crashing the economy because he couldn’t turn it into a conservative utopia fast enough. Not jokes or sarcasm. The emojis are intended to annoy liberals. That poster is being deliberately provocative, as the handle implies. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/242 "2016-12-05T15:08:04Z")
The charitable interpretation is that he actually believes that garbage. Fake news in -\> fake opinions out. “FIFO” takes on a whole new meaning. FNIFOO: you heard it here first. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/243 "2016-12-06T03:39:03Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > It takes a special kind of chutzpah for conservatives to mulishly resist and reject all of Obama’s proposed initiatives and then sneer at Obama for not getting his initiatives accomplished. Whaddya want to bet that within a couple years they’ll be criticizing Obama for not having filled the current Supreme Court vacancy, too? :rolleyes: Obama had both houses when he was elected and managed to piss off enough people to flip both of them. 9 trillion dollars later Democrats doubled down on the only other person who managed the same feat. Despite spending twice as much on the campaign they lost substantial numbers of traditional voters. Not to be deterred the party again doubled down on Pelosi and is reinventing McCarthyism blacklists under the guise of fighting “fake news”. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/244 "2016-12-06T04:19:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Obama had both houses when he was elected and managed to piss off enough people to flip both of them. Yeah, the nerve of that guy, expecting Republican Congressmembers to be able to work with a black moderate Democratic President to actually accomplish anything for the good of the country, instead of hysterically refusing to cooperate with him in any way. For gosh sakes, what did he expect?! Republican responsible governance and sensible bipartisanship? What a noob. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/245 "2016-12-06T04:33:12Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Yeah, the nerve of that guy, expecting Republican Congressmembers to be able to work with a black moderate Democratic President to actually accomplish anything for the good of the country, instead of hysterically refusing to cooperate with him in any way. For gosh sakes, what did he expect?! Republican responsible governance and sensible bipartisanship? What a noob. There was nothing moderate about Obama. His health care bill jacked up the cost of insurance. It was a complete fiasco. He lost both houses to this just as HRC did for her husband. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/246 "2016-12-06T04:51:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There was nothing moderate about Obama. Oh dear, I must have been listening to those dirty Commie hippies at [_Business Insider_ again](http://www.businessinsider.com.au/study-shows-obama-is-the-most-moderate-president-2012-3?r=US&IR=T). > [@](#): > > Study Shows Obama is the Most Moderate President > > Despite what Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum will tell you, Barack Obama is not the most liberal president in modern era. In fact, he’s the most moderate.That’s according to a new study by political scientists Keith Poole and Christopher Hare at the University of Georgia. […] > > The data shows that from 1945 to 2011 Republican presidents have moved more to the right than Democratic presidents have moved to the left. In fact, the Democrats have become more moderate, not liberal. > > While Obama has been the most moderate president since 1945, his predecessor President George W. Bush was the most conservative since the end of World War II. > > The study also revealed that Congress today is more polarised than it has ever been since the late 1800s. > > The two parties began to ideologically drift apart during the mid-1970s, when the Republican Party made a dramatic shift to the right on economic policies. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/247 "2016-12-07T03:37:31Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Oh dear, I must have been listening to those dirty Commie hippies at [_Business Insider_ again](http://www.businessinsider.com.au/study-shows-obama-is-the-most-moderate-president-2012-3?r=US&IR=T). Nice try but you’re not going to put a moderate smiley face on that health care debacle or the 9 trillion dollars of additional debt. ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/248 "2016-12-07T04:00:35Z")
Thank you, President Trump! Masayoshi Son, the brash billionaire who controls Sprint Corp., said Tuesday he would invest $50 billion in the U.S. and create 50,000 new jobs, following a 45-minute private meeting with President-elect Donald Trump. > **[When Billionaires Meet: $50 Billion Pledge From SoftBank to Trump](https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-says-softbank-pledges-to-invest-50-billion-in-u-s-1481053732)** > > Masayoshi Son, the brash billionaire who controls Sprint Corp., said Tuesday he would invest $50 billion in the U.S. and create 50,000 new jobs, after a 45-minute meeting with President-elect Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/249 "2016-12-07T04:23:17Z")
Has it occurred to anybody that President Trump will NOT be Emperor Trump, and he may well NOT be able to deliver the tax “deals” he has been promising? This country is governed by a framework of laws and rules - not “back-room deals among buddies”. This is one of the things that make Western Democracies different than Third World Tin Horn Dictators. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/250 "2016-12-07T04:34:23Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Has it occurred to anybody that President Trump will NOT be Emperor Trump, and he may well NOT be able to deliver the tax “deals” he has been promising? Better watch it. You’re likely to end up on The List. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/251 "2016-12-07T09:07:41Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Masayoshi Son, the brash billionaire who controls Sprint Corp., said Tuesday he would invest $50 billion in the U.S. and create 50,000 new jobs, following a 45-minute private meeting with President-elect Donald Trump. > > [http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-says-softbank-pledges-to-invest-50-billion-in-u-s-1481053732](http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-says-softbank-pledges-to-invest-50-billion-in-u-s-1481053732) [Hmm.](http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/06/trump-says-softbank-will-invest-50-billion-in-the-us-aiming-to-create-50000-jobs.html) > [@](#): > > But the $50 billion will come from a previously announced $100 billion international investment fund set up with Saudi Arabia, according to Dow Jones. […] > > Sprint and T-Mobile shares popped after the news, but gave up most of those gains. Son has previously expressed interest in combining the companies, hoping to take on larger rivals, but he has faced regulatory resistance. Hmm, a CEO who wants regulatory relaxation makes highly publicized but vague promises about job creation in the US to stroke the ego of the President-elect. What an amazing development. :dubious: In the meantime in the real world, there were [178000 **actual** US jobs created last month](http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/12/02/us-job-report-178000-more-jobs-unemployment-falls-to-4-6-but-manufacturing-loses-4000/#248d89d14729) after [161000 new jobs added in October](http://www.businessinsider.com.au/us-jobs-report-october-2016-2016-11?r=US&IR=T). Thank you, President Obama! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/252 "2016-12-08T01:56:44Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > In the meantime in the real world, there were [178000 **actual** US jobs created last month](http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/12/02/us-job-report-178000-more-jobs-unemployment-falls-to-4-6-but-manufacturing-loses-4000/#248d89d14729) after [161000 new jobs added in October](http://www.businessinsider.com.au/us-jobs-report-october-2016-2016-11?r=US&IR=T). Thank you, President Obama! Where are your real world quotes of CEO’s thanking President Obama? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/253 "2016-12-08T03:04:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Where are your real world quotes of CEO’s thanking President Obama? :dubious: Oh right, because what really matters to the economy is not the documented creation of hundreds of thousands of **actual** jobs, but rather PR events staged by celebrity CEOs who want to encourage more lax regulation, kissing up to a celebrity-CEO President-elect by making vague promises about the future creation of tens of thousands of **potential** jobs. Forgive me, I’ve become so accustomed over the past eight years to having a President who’s a responsible and hardworking adult that I’m not keeping up with the more… publicity-oriented priorities of our new reality-show political climate. ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/254 "2016-12-22T05:02:19Z")
Yes, the USA can be competitive with China. Labor costs aren’t the only factor in whether a factory is built here or abroad. [http://www.ejinsight.com/20161221-why-c](http://www.ejinsight.com/20161221-why-c) … in-the-us/ Why China’s top auto glass maker prefers to invest in the US In a video interview with news portal [yicai.com](http://yicai.com), Cao shared his bold plan to invest US$1 billion to set up factories in the US. “Apart from labor costs, everything else is cheaper in the US than in China,” he said, adding that a similar plant can generate 40 percent more profit if it is built in the US rather than China. The 70-year-old Cao shared a breakdown of all costs in the video. For example, the overall tax cost in the US is about 40 percent and is much less complicated than in China where manufacturers may have to pay 30 percent more than their US counterparts. Electricity costs are half that of China and natural gas only one-fifth. While land is increasingly expensive in China, it is almost free in the US, Cao said. Meanwhile, the US government offers various incentives to attract manufacturers. Although labor cost is lower in China, with blue-collar workers being paid eight times in the US and white-collar paid more than double, China’s labor costs are rising rapidly, he said. Fuyao built its first American plant in Dayton, Ohio, with a total investment of US$600 million. The facility has an area of 170,000 square meters and is expected to employ more than 2,000 people. It also plans to build plants in Michigan and Illinois, raising the total US investment to US$1 billion. There is perhaps another key factor behind Cao’s decision that he avoided to explicitly point out. Doing business in China often entails handling complicated relationship with government officials. Industry polices, which have a large impact on the business environment, also tends to change more drastically in China, creating problems for the business sector. By contrast, US corporations don’t have so much headache in dealing with the government as long as they pay the appropriate taxes. Also, US policy is more consistent and predictable. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/255 "2016-12-22T14:08:12Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Yes, the USA can be competitive with China. Labor costs aren’t the only factor in whether a factory is built here or abroad. This is a fact known to essentially anyone who is not totally economically illiterate. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/256 "2016-12-22T18:35:41Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Automation is a two edged sword. It lowers the cost of goods, but it also decreases the labor needed to make those goods, reducing the number of available jobs. > > In theory, this increases everyone’s standard of living, but there will always be those left behind in the march of progress. As I stated previously, this is only PART of the story. Automation reduces prices. This increases demand and in the past, this increase in demand created more jobs than the automation destroyed. Until very recently that is. Now we are hit with the double whammy of automation that no longer replaces lost jobs with even MORE jobs, those new jobs are in brand spanking new factories in China. > [@](#): > > Addressing their needs is what this is about. Sure. But we might have reached an inflection point where we will become more and more automated and labor will start to become obsolete. Then you have the makings of a revolution. We can bring back some jobs with tariffs and sovereign blackmail, but eventually Americans have to provide enough value to justify their standard of living. Or we will end up with a Marxist revolution. > [@](#): > > While I agree completely, this election has told us that the white rural people will hold our country hostage until we find a way to bring them jobs. Not that I feel it is the best use of our resources, but it apparently needs to be done. It has been this way for many issues. Who gives a shit about drug addiction, we need to lock them up, they’re criminals… and probably rapists too. Then the opiate problem becomes epidemic among whites and now we realize that treatment is a much better alternative to incarceration. The SATs are a fair and objective test of academic ability, if you minorities can’t cut it we really shouldn’t water down the test so that more less qualified minorities can get into the best schools. What’s that now? Asians are scoring better than whites on a consistent and significant basis? Well, we really ought to de-emphasize the importance of this one factor, after all what does it really tell us about the student’s abilities. The problem isn’t new but I’m not sure that we are capturing all the nuances of why working class whites in Michigan voted for someone who was so obviously unqualified. Hillary was also an incredibly bad candidate. If we had put up a better candidate (like say Bernie), we wouldn’t be having this conversation. We would be wondering how the Republicans could nominate a bobblehead like Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/257 "2016-12-22T18:42:06Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > No. Automation doesn’t really reduce the number of jobs. There are an infinite amount of jobs available. What we lack is the ability to match labor with the jobs labor is able to do because of short-sighted and destructive wage floors. That’s why the millions of jobs that people were trained to do or had the intellect to do migrated overseas. What do you imagine the wage would have to be to keep those jobs from migrating to China? > [@](#): > > Then you combine the fact that you lose entitlement money as you earn money and you have further disincentives to work. Look, most people in the USA don’t have the brains to be an engineer, a physician, or a computer programmer. And we only need so much dead weight at the DMV. Therefore we need jobs that folks can work at and make some money. The American worker is not intrinsically more valuable than the Asian worker. I can’t understand why people don’t see the strategic error we are making just to buy votes from under-informed leftists who think wage floors work. American workers can compete with Japanese and Korean pay scales. Its the vast unending ocean of Chinese labor that we cannot compete with. On a per capita basis, American workers are absolutely more valuable than Chinese workers. We are better educated, better located, better resourced, better in almost every dimension. Just not by nearly enough to justify the difference in pay. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/258 "2016-12-22T18:56:50Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > This is a fact known to essentially anyone who is not totally economically illiterate. Still its a good point that there are other levers we can push to make America a more attractive place to manufacture. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/259 "2016-12-22T20:33:24Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > As I stated previously, this is only PART of the story. Automation reduces prices. This increases demand and in the past, this increase in demand created more jobs than the automation destroyed. Until very recently that is. Now we are hit with the double whammy of automation that no longer replaces lost jobs with even MORE jobs, those new jobs are in brand spanking new factories in China. On what basis do you draw this conclusion? ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/260 "2016-12-22T20:33:55Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > This is a fact known to essentially anyone who is not totally economically illiterate. I believe that most people would presume that the wage gap between China and the USA is so great that it is an insurmountable obstacle. The article I linked to and quoted provides numbers that I was unaware of and as well as a sense of what goes in China in terms of policy and regulation. The OP of this thread and others seem to believe that bringing manufacturing jobs back to the USA is unrealistic while this article suggests it is possible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448.md?page=14)