# Let's bring those jobs back... How? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448 "2016-11-19T18:20:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/281 "2017-01-04T02:05:39Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Not one job created by Obama. Since the President gets the blame for a poor economy and jobs lost, then he should get credit for new jobs in a good economy. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/282 "2017-01-04T02:41:52Z")
Official US unemployment is under 5%, that’s pretty close to full employment in modern terms. Surely that argument has been bogus for most of the election campaign; the issue is pay and conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/283 "2017-01-04T03:08:29Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Official US unemployment is under 5%, that’s pretty close to full employment in modern terms. > > Surely that argument has been bogus for most of the election campaign; the issue is pay and conditions. real unemployment is well over 9%. And that’s how the electorate voted. James Carville could have been Trump’s campaign manager. “It’s the economy stupid”. When you overspend the budget by 9 trillion dollars and the result is a failed health care policy and high unemployment then the candidate running for President has to run on a different platform. ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/284 "2017-01-04T03:31:03Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Thanks, Obama! 🙂 But Trump gets all of the credit anyway. This is sure to drive liberals to the brink of insanity if they aren’t there already. Insert laughing emoji with tears here. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/285 "2017-01-04T03:48:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > real unemployment is well over 9%. And that’s how the electorate voted. James Carville could have been Trump’s campaign manager. “It’s the economy stupid”. > > When you overspend the budget by 9 trillion dollars and the result is a failed health care policy and high unemployment then the candidate running for President has to run on a different platform. And with Trump(or any Republican), you would use the 5% figure. The various unemployment rates have been calculated the same way for decades and the parties have always used the ones that make themselves look good or the opposition look bad. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/286 "2017-01-04T04:29:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > real unemployment is well over 9%. When I last checked in August, average U-6 since BLS started reporting it was 10.7%. It was 9.3% (seasonally adjusted, 9.0% without adjustment) in November. Check your numbers and know what they mean before writing about “real unemployment” to people who know better. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/287 "2017-01-04T04:50:21Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > When I last checked in August, average U-6 since BLS started reporting it was 10.7%. It was 9.3% (seasonally adjusted, 9.0% without adjustment) in November. Check your numbers and know what they mean before writing about “real unemployment” to people who know better. The people who know better are the ones who were unemployed. Add to that list the people who got screwed over with their healthcare. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/288 "2017-01-04T04:56:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The people who know better are the ones who were unemployed. Add to that list the people who got screwed over with their healthcare. That has nothing to do with assessing the actual unemployment rate. Full, 100% employment doesn’t happen no matter how much you fantasize about it. And healthcare is a totally different issue. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/289 "2017-01-04T05:21:43Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > That has nothing to do with assessing the actual unemployment rate. > > Full, 100% employment doesn’t happen no matter how much you fantasize about it. > > And healthcare is a totally different issue. Any point you think you’re making died in the election. It’s hard to run on the same platform of your predecessor when he’s telling voters [their jobs aren’t coming back](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCUTuLbkNXQ) and the other candidate says they are. Obama mocked Trump over the carrier jobs. Before even taking office Trump proved it false. If you don’t think rising healthcare costs don’t play into employment then you don’t understand “it’s the economy stupid”. despite being told it would raise the cost of healthcare they voted it in anyway. Even [Bill Clinton](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsCg-0GAbt4) admits it was screwed up. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/290 "2017-01-04T05:32:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Any point you think you’re making died in the election. It’s hard to run on the same platform of your predecessor when he’s telling voters [their jobs aren’t coming back](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCUTuLbkNXQ) and the other candidate says they are. Obama mocked Trump over the carrier jobs. Before even taking office Trump proved it false. > > If you don’t think rising healthcare costs don’t play into employment then you don’t understand “it’s the economy stupid”. despite being told it would raise the cost of healthcare they voted it in anyway. Even [Bill Clinton](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsCg-0GAbt4) admits it was screwed up. You mean the Carrier jobs that went to Mexico? Or do you mean the Carrier jobs he “saved” with tax breaks rather than punitive tariffs for outsourcing. Those tax breaks are helping to pay for the automation that will eliminate the “saved” jobs. Why do you believe Trump will bring back jobs? He says wages are too high. He has his own products made overseas. He ignores unions at his hotels. He buys Chinese steel and aluminum. He underpays or doesn’t pay contractors. This doesn’t sound like someone who’s interested in bring back jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/291 "2017-01-04T05:43:13Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > You mean the Carrier jobs that went to Mexico? > Or do you mean the Carrier jobs he “saved” with tax breaks rather than punitive tariffs for outsourcing. The ones Obama said were never coming back. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/292 "2017-01-04T05:45:37Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Any point you think you’re making died in the election. It’s hard to run on the same platform of your predecessor when he’s telling voters [their jobs aren’t coming back](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCUTuLbkNXQ) and the other candidate says they are. Obama mocked Trump over the carrier jobs. Before even taking office Trump proved it false. What did Trump prove false? Carrier is still sending some jobs to Mexico, and admits that at least some of the jobs “saved” in the U.S. are going to get automated out of existence anyway. Automation is as big a threat to low-skill manufacturing jobs as Mexico ever was; the more a company experiments with automation, the more likely it is that jobs that could never go to Mexico (such as in United Technology’s defense businesses) will go to robots. How does that help American workers? > [@Magiver](#): > > If you don’t think rising healthcare costs don’t play into employment then you don’t understand “it’s the economy stupid”. despite being told it would raise the cost of healthcare they voted it in anyway. Even [Bill Clinton](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsCg-0GAbt4) admits it was screwed up. Healthcare costs have been rising for my entire life, and yours as well; EVERYTHING will raise the cost of healthcare, including doing nothing. However, healthcare costs have recently been rising by [some of the lowest rates in years](http://www.pwc.com/us/en/health-industries/health-research-institute/behind-the-numbers.html). Do you think employers might possibly benefit from the fact that health insurance premiums for large group plans are increasing much slower than in the small group market, and much slower than they were a decade ago? ([cite](http://khn.org/news/big-companies-expect-moderate-increases-in-2017-employee-health-care-costs/)) Among large employers, most point to prescription drug costs, especially specialty drugs, as the main driver of premium increases; that’s an area that the ACA pretty much left alone. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/293 "2017-01-04T05:46:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The ones Obama said were never coming back. I will quote my post since you seem to have overlooked it. > [@running\_coach](#): > > You mean the Carrier jobs that went to Mexico? > Or do you mean the Carrier jobs he “saved” with tax breaks rather than punitive tariffs for outsourcing. > Those tax breaks are helping to pay for the automation that will eliminate the “saved” jobs. > Why do you believe Trump will bring back jobs? > > He says wages are too high. > He has his own products made overseas. > He ignores unions at his hotels. > He buys Chinese steel and aluminum. > He underpays or doesn’t pay contractors. > > This doesn’t sound like someone who’s interested in bring back jobs. Why do you think (beyond his own worthless words) Trump will bring those jobs back? Remember, Trump said he would bring jobs _back_, not lose fewer to overseas. He’s already 1,000 in the hole. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/294 "2017-01-04T05:57:03Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The ones Obama said were never coming back. What jobs actually “came back”? The Carrier jobs hadn’t actually moved to Mexico yet; at least some of the jobs Trump “saved” were never planned to go to Mexico anyway. As far as the Ford announcement, Ford is still planning to move production of the Ford Focus and some other smaller cars from Michigan to Hermosillo, Chihuahua. It’s an existing plant, not a new one, but they’re investing time and money in the move, and once moved, it’s pretty unlikely these jobs are ever going to come back stateside. In fact, it looks pretty much like the entire Ford announcement is just a shell game: they downgraded production forecasts for small cars, so they don’t need an entirely new plant; they can fit production into the existing Mexican plant by running it closer to full capacity. Meanwhile, the new plant stateside is going to be building battery-based vehicles that were never slated to be built in Mexico anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/295 "2017-01-04T12:48:39Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The people who know better are the ones who were unemployed. Lol nice try. I exposed your knowledge on the topic for all to see. But let’s check what else you could have looked up before posting. U-6 was 14.2% when Obama entered office. So “real unemployment” has decreased by a third. Not surprising, considering we have ten million more jobs (more than we’ve ever had) in the U.S. since he started. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/296 "2017-01-04T14:36:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The people who know better are the ones who were unemployed. Add to that list the people who got screwed over with their healthcare. When your neighbor loses his job, it is a recession. When you lose your job, it is a depression. The view of an individual, based on their circumstances is very important to them and maybe how they vote but has zero credibility for evaluating the overall economy. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/297 "2017-01-04T19:04:24Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > On what basis do you draw this conclusion? Which one? that automation reduces prices? That it used to create more jobs than it destroys? that it creates fewer jobs now? that those jobs are being created in China? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/298 "2017-01-04T19:06:59Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Um, your cite says that instead of building a new plant in Mexico, Ford is going to transfer some production of the Ford Focus to their existing plant in Hermosillo, which last time I checked was still in Mexico. That really depends on how far south Trump builds that wall. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/299 "2017-01-04T19:08:18Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > :dubious: Oh right, because what really matters to the economy is not the documented creation of hundreds of thousands of **actual** jobs, but rather PR events staged by celebrity CEOs who want to encourage more lax regulation, kissing up to a celebrity-CEO President-elect by making vague promises about the future creation of tens of thousands of **potential** jobs. > > Forgive me, I’ve become so accustomed over the past eight years to having a President who’s a responsible and hardworking adult that I’m not keeping up with the more… publicity-oriented priorities of our new reality-show political climate. I think you got whooshed. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/300 "2017-01-04T19:10:28Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > The wall was always mostly symbolic - you might get a few hundred metres, or not, you knew that right? If you build it far enough to the south, it can be less than 50 miles long and go from seas to shining sea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448.md?page=16)