# Let's bring those jobs back... How? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448 "2016-11-19T18:20:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/61 "2016-11-20T19:43:27Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Except for food? Lol. That’s a big exception. And it misses the fact that “economically useless” land has trees, minerals, energy, etc. that are all necessary for production of tangible goods. Let’s see. Can a city survive without surrounding land to provide raw materials? No. Can the surrounding areas survive without the city? Yes. > > One is necessary. One is not. > > There are solutions to these economic displacements but neither Trump nor Clinton advocated for them. The vast majority of the remaining farm jobs will be eliminated by factory-ization of food production and robotic crop tending in our lifetimes. The rest of the people are simply living in or near small towns doing things not much different than they could do in a suburb. Just doing it much more expensively once the increased per-capita infrastructure costs of low-density living are factored in. Public (or at least very, very widespread individual) ownership of the means of production is certainly one way to ensure the collective fruits of everyone’s collective labors are divided more evenly. I anticipate that doctrinal approach will not be a popular option amongst the ranks of the Ruralians. Ref your comment on economic displacements … Actually Clinton tried to talk of such things. Even in the (in)famous “deplorables” speech’s next several paragraphs. Since the whole topic wasn’t sound-bite friendly, it got zero media traction. If her election policy manifesto is still available online you can read all about it. No need to take my word for it. To be sure, candidate’s pre-electoral talk is real cheap whereas creating and expending the political capital needed to accomplish substantive nationwide change is a much more expensive order. Regardless of who’s doing the talking and the changing. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/62 "2016-11-20T19:49:06Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > My suggestions probably won’t fly- they’ll be shouted down as :eek:Socialism:eek:, people very likely won’t be interested/will view it as an intrusion into their lives, and there is really no guarantee that it will be workable anyway. > > Basically, we get people working on addressing the kinds of problems that are holding them back. Obesity is a major problem in America, no? Use government resources (out of a GOP administration? ha ha) to train people as physical trainers and nutritionists. Identify people who are in need of such services and subsidize them to receive such services. Get people fit and healthy, for their own good. Real simple, right? We just broadcast the message to rural America that they are too fat and don’t eat right, and that Uncle Sam is here to help. The lines to sign up will be around the block! /snerk > > People are addicted to dangerous drugs more and more, or at least is seems that way, no? Heroin, oxy, meth, highly addictive devils that crash people’s lives right into the ground. So, Uncle Sam subsidizes the training of people who can work as educators of rural people, who themselves get subsidies to attend these classes to learn how to be drug counselors and generally run treatment facilities. Identify addicts and subsidize _them_ to go through these treatment programs. All these formerly broken-down people will eventually be whole again, it will be just fantastic. > > Have Uncle Sam subsidize the training of a wide variety of educators. English as a second language teachers? Maybe not so much, looks like immigrants are going to get the boot, but we’ll need people to do the booting, and that is at least one thing the GOP and Trump voters can agree on. But take it further, train educators to teach people to go into a variety of skilled jobs, starting with installing high-speed internet to low-density areas, get people online and connected. Some work as programmers, some get trained as mechanics. Some get trained to address the dilapidation you can observe all over the place in underserved areas. Some build homeless shelters and soup kitchens, some get trained to run them. Develop a greater emphasis on social skills training so that people can interact with each other more effectively and be more interconnected members of communities of mutual respecting citizens, people who really have a deep understanding of what the word “citizen” means. Rural people _love_ stuff like that, almost as much as GOP government figures! > > With the new supply of healthy, fit, well-adjusted sober people, they’ll all be chomping at the bit to improve their skillsets and cooperate with the bigger picture, making the necessary sacrifices and changes to their lives to meet a changing world halfway. Eventually, with enough “pump priming” from Uncle Sam, the aggregate of these programs will become self-sustaining. People will have jobs and money in their pockets, they will pay enough taxes to cover all the education and health services they need without having to tap the rich (or Uncle Sam’s credit card) for it, people will be productive and rural areas will shine once more. > > More highly technical training will also be needed to keep America competitive with the rest of the world. Nanotech looks like it will be the next big thing, but we need talented people with the skills to pursue that. Teams of genetic engineers could work together to devise things like goats that sprout wings and fly, because just think about it, flying goats would be Awesome, we’d be the envy of the world for sure! > > So, yeah. Maybe somebody with a less jaundiced eye can go over these kinds of ideas and find the optimism and workability in them. > > Oh, and look at Spain and Portugal. The Spanish government _trains prostitutes_. And Portugal has legalized most (all?) drugs. The less dangerous drugs can amount to a whole new set of industries- see marijuana in Colorado, it’s not nearly as disruptive as meth or heroin, admit it. The Evangelicals don’t have to participate in these kinds of things, they just have to stay out of the way of progress and realize that people need jobs jobs jobs. I’m sure when it is explained to them, they’ll see the sense in it. Now, those are ideas I could get behind (other than the booting of immigrants). Anybody got Trump’s email addy? (No snark intended, those are actually really good ideas, my only concern is that the party that these people voted into power is not all that likely to implement them.) Any chance of getting the white working class to clamor for these solutions to the people that they voted for? I know they won’t listen to me, but they may listen to them. Can’t relocate them, but we can still retrain them, right? The only thing I can think of to add to that would be to train daycare workers, and then pay them, so that people have a place to leave their children when they go to their new jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/63 "2016-11-20T19:54:51Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Let’s get back exactly to what the government can do. Manufacturers spend a significant amount of money on taxes, health care, unemployment compensation… Suppose you have universal health care funded by a value added tax. Suppose you have basic income and eliminate unemployment insurance. Suppose you quit funding education with property taxes (currently property taxes are about 36% of funding of local schools)… When the ACA was being debated, I remember seeing an article that claimed that the auto companies had lower labor costs at their Canadian plants because they have universal health care. [Here](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/25/opinion/toyota-moving-northward.html), for instance, is an OpEd piece by Paul Krugman making that argument. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/64 "2016-11-20T19:56:25Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > No kidding. I was pointing out that it was preposterous that the US today can’t mill a block of aluminum. Are you saying we can’t and that’s bad? Or are you saying that saying we can’t is not a credible assertion and in fact we can? Recognizing that “can” implies being reasonably competitive with China on cost, schedule, volume, & quality. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/65 "2016-11-20T20:15:41Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Well, that certainly sounds like something that Trump would say! > A good “sound bite” that has no basis in reality. Right. It’s just coincidence the company has about $90 billion in accumulated profits it won’t repatriate i.e. make available for corporation tax. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/66 "2016-11-20T20:21:35Z")
> [@Lisaren](#): > > Retrain and move is very easy to say. Little harder to do for some in real life. Consider a couple. Both work. One has a job with a pension and has put in 15 years. The other loses their job in a declining community. Oh, the one who lost their job should just leave their spouse and kids to follow work. The other will retire in a few years and come join you. Or both should just move so both can work and rest the number of years toward retirement, if they can get another job with the same benefits. The odds of both finding work in the same area with the one still having a job ring a replacement with comparable benefits in the same timeframe are not odds I would want to bet on. Moving works great for singles, or if the incomes between the two are very disparate and the higher income person lost their job moving can make sense. If the couple have similar incomes, moving becomes more difficult. Yeah, creative destruction involves destruction. It’s going to be difficult for some people even with gov’t support, just like being a farmer has been difficult ever since crop yields started increasing significantly a few centuries ago or like it was difficult to be a middle-aged candle maker around the time of Thomas Edison. In song form: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwuy4hHO3YQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwuy4hHO3YQ) > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Are you saying we can’t and that’s bad? > > Or are you saying that saying we can’t is not a credible assertion and in fact we can? > > Recognizing that “can” implies being reasonably competitive with China on cost, schedule, volume, & quality. Keep in mind that the concept of comparative advantage is either unknown or willfully ignored by a lot of people. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/67 "2016-11-20T20:45:05Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Now, those are ideas I could get behind (other than the booting of immigrants). Anybody got Trump’s email addy? (No snark intended, those are actually really good ideas, my only concern is that the party that these people voted into power is not all that likely to implement them.) > > Any chance of getting the white working class to clamor for these solutions to the people that they voted for? I know they won’t listen to me, but they may listen to them. > > Can’t relocate them, but we can still retrain them, right? The only thing I can think of to add to that would be to train daycare workers, and then pay them, so that people have a place to leave their children when they go to their new jobs. Heh, thanks, I am glad you like that. Honestly I wrote that in a state of sort of snarky despair at the seeming political impossibility and social unpalatability of what could otherwise be viewed as practical ideas. I think the imposition of them would be viewed as the descent of liberal jack booted thugs by people who prefer actual thugs, only chasing those pesky brown people. OTOH, my glimmer of hope for the coming administration is that many of the people who need the most help finally have a top level government figure that they actually believe in. People like me and a majority of dopers just Are Not Trump’s Target Audience. So, when he says he’s going to get those Mexicans and Muslims, yes, it sure is appalling, but he has convinced millions of American sufferers that he is one of them and on their side. They obviously trust him- he made nothing but empty promises all through his campaign after all. So, once in office, if suddenly he changes his tune to, " hey, you guys. You know what I think is really cool? Physical fitness. It just has so many benefits, so many benefits, I have always admired fit people, they’re classy… and sobriety, remember in the old days, when America was great, how people weren’t all whacked out on heroin? Let’s go back to like it was. Americans used to help each other with problems, but then liberals broke the government, and now it is a disaster." And so on. I don’t think it matters if it is fact or fantasy. I think it is possible that he could get his followers to believe almost anything. Trump on TV sipping lattes and munching arugula? “Boy, I wish I could get some arugula when I visit Rural America, which I just love by the way.” And suddenly people are ready to grow Arugula and take an interest in making great lattes. If anybody can sell solutions to rural America, it is Trump. We have seen that it is not the quality of the ideas that convinces these people, but rather their acceptance of the messenger. So that’s my hope for the Trump administration- that he can change the minds of people who apparently can’t be reached any other way that we’ve tried. ---
**Author:** ![psikeyhackr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@psikeyhackr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psikeyhackr)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/68 "2016-11-20T20:48:03Z")
Well if we nuke China then the jobs have to go somewhere. They deserve it for the Climate Change Hoax anyway. psik ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/69 "2016-11-20T20:56:17Z")
> [@Credulous "experts" on global warming](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/credulous-experts-on-global-warming/729477/56): > > So the ability to find someone talking stupid bullsh!t is supposed to be proof of something? :smack: > > It would be extremely difficult to prove that any single incident can be attributed to AGW. Climate is statistical. When statistics of many events change significantly then that can be attributed to climate change not any single statistic. > > How much energy does it take to raise a cubic mile of water by one degree Celsius? > > If millions of cubic miles of water change by that much and are statistically different from the averages of the last century then something is going on. > > psik > [@psikeyhackr](#): > > Well if we nuke China then the jobs have to go somewhere. > > They deserve it for the Climate Change Hoax anyway. > > psik So can you post how you discovered it was China? ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/70 "2016-11-20T21:02:40Z")
Just read a heart-rendering piece about a poor woman in E KY who is worried about her health insurance. Note: When ACA was implemented, part of it was an expansion of Medicaid to cover all poor adults. Predictably, the Dem Governors implemented this; the GOP, doing its damnest to scuttle anything Obama, did not. Now, back to KY: When the Medicaid expansion was implemented, KY had a Dem Governor; they switched to GOP in 2014. First order of GOP Governor? Petition to scrap Medicaid expansion. How did Appalachia vote? Solid Red. The poor woman is worried about her insurance. You made your bed; sweet dreams, you ignorant bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/71 "2016-11-20T21:22:29Z")
To add to the picture of Trump as salesman of ideas to rural America, the effect could be enhanced by strategic cooperation from the right Democrats. For instance, let’s say my best case scenario comes to pass and Trump begins to stump for things that are actual worthwhile solutions. Trump: drug addiction is out of control, out of control. It is the role of government to fix that. I want to train drug counselors and build treatment centers, and subsidize that treatment with government money. It will be so worth it, believe me. Ok. The catch is that if Trump starts making smart proposals, it will be the impulse of Democratic leaders to applaud and try to get on board. Wrong! Smart proposals need to be seen to be scorned and opposed by people who are considered major liberals. Say Obama is willing to be a good sport. So he goes on Fox news and says, “Trump is unfit to implement drug treatment. It will cost too much and accomplish nothing. He is taking our country down exactly the wrong path. Trump supporters should see this for the con that it really is.” Keep in mind that Trump supporters and many on the right seem to have taken on a vaudvillian view of things. Obama is the liberal villain to them, no matter what, so his coming out against sensible Trump proposals will be met with, “Boo! Hiss! Obama’s against it? Screw him! WE DEMAND GOVERNMENT DRUG TREATMENT!!” I am not usually this Machiavellian, but this seems to be the way it is now. Can’t fight it, so use it instead. ---
**Author:** ![psikeyhackr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@psikeyhackr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psikeyhackr)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/72 "2016-11-20T21:35:27Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > So can you post how you discovered it was China? Trump said so. It must be true. psik ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/73 "2016-11-21T00:19:22Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > It’s even worse than that. I remember when going to career fairs when graduating from engineering school and seeing that nearly half of the interviews were for Arthur Anderson (now Accenture), Deloitte & Touche, and other “professional services” companies, and they were basically snapping up anyone with some background in C/C++ or post-calculus mathematics. Nitpick, but Accenture was formerly Andersen Consulting, which was spun off as the consulting arm of the now defunct accounting firm Arthur Andersen. But even I can’t keep track of all the mergers and divestitures now. What’s the difference between Booz Allen Hamilton and Booz & Co? Not that it matters since one (both?) became Strategy& and were acquired by PwC. It is interesting to note how the old consulting firms and Big-4 accounting firms used to have “partner” names like law firms up until the 90s - Ernst & Young, Deloitte & Touche, Booz Allen Hamilton, Andersen Consulting, Price Waterhouse Coopers, etc. Then they rebranding to dot com sounding names consisting of acronyms, symbols and nonsensical words - EY, Deloitte. , Strategy&, Accenture, PwC, etc. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I haven’t kept in touch with any of my classmates who went into the field but I have had to work with a couple of those companies for various reasons, and as far as I can tell you really develop no salable practical skills that apply to anything outside of the management consultant industry. Fortunately the management consulting industry can apply to pretty much anything.😉 I’m of two minds about the profession. One the one hand, “practical skills” are overrated. Management consultants typically work with executives and senior management to solve large, complex, strategic and operational problems. It’s not like being a doctor, engineer or computer programmer where you have to learn how to “do” something extremely technical. But a lot of those technical skills are being automated or outsourced. Management consulting is like investment banking, big law, venture capital and a few other “white shoe” industries. It’s less about “skills” as it is about gaining access to an upper echelon of the business world. OTOH, I studied structural engineering in undergrad. And I started my consulting career as a computer programmer. So to a certain extent, my view of the business world is that the only people who matter are the people who own the capital and those who actually design, invent, build and maintain the products people actually use. Everyone else is just useless middlemen and salespeople trying to justify their bullshit existence. But ultimately that is what is happening to the working world. Eventually we will just create millions of bullshit middle-jobs to keep the masses working, content and busy enough to not revolt against those who own most of the capital. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Out of a team of twenty-odd people, maybe two or three were doing any real coding or planning and the rest were just “managers” who didn’t actually have anything to manage. LOL, that sounds about right. My boutique strategy form was hired to help one of the Big 4 run a “PMO” for some post merger integration with a big utility. I’m like “so do any of these idiots know how to test the software or is it pretty much just layers of consultants and dumb middle managers passing status reports back and forth?” ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlecCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/74 "2016-11-21T00:27:32Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > So can you post how you discovered it was China? > ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/75 "2016-11-21T00:46:33Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I’m of two minds about the profession. One the one hand, “practical skills” are overrated. Management consultants typically work with executives and senior management to solve large, complex, strategic and operational problems. It’s not like being a doctor, engineer or computer programmer where you have to learn how to “do” something extremely technical. But a lot of those technical skills are being automated or outsourced. > > Management consulting is like investment banking, big law, venture capital and a few other “white shoe” industries. It’s less about “skills” as it is about gaining access to an upper echelon of the business world. The problem with completely outsourcing those skills is that when they are too abstracted from the management a basic understanding of the problems and how to solve them are beyond the abilities of managers to comprehend. When you have managers who begin their careers not by starting at a functional level and working up to management but instead immediately start on a “management track” of learning bullshit ‘leadership’ skills largely consisting of mouthing appropriate slogans at one another there is a massive disconnect between ‘leadership’ and reality. This isn’t to say that it isn’t critical to have a hierarchy of people who are able to make strategic decisions and give direction without having to oversee the operational details, and in fact, in a large scale program it is critical, but what often happens is that you have layers of flappers who control the access and information flow between working and senior executive levels without having any input or influence themselves. And it is structures like this, and the institutional dissonance they create that lead to the 2007 meltdown with people being shocked that their market valued fictional investment vehicles were actually worthless if the market didn’t value them. > [@msmith537](#): > > , that sounds about right. My boutique strategy form was hired to help one of the Big 4 run a “PMO” for some post merger integration with a big utility. I’m like “so do any of these idiots know how to test the software or is it pretty much just layers of consultants and dumb middle managers passing status reports back and forth?” Yeah, in most organizations it seems like 20% of the people are doing 80% of the work and everyone else is kind of shuffling around reports. For what it is worth, I’ve seen even worse in several of the government agencies I’ve had to deal with to the point that we’ll have calls with fifty people on the line and only three or four people actually talking or taking actions, and I finish my call thinking to myself, “What the fuck do the rest of these people do?” Then I think about what I’m doing with my day and realize that whatever I’m doing isn’t going to amount to shit, either. At most I’ll do some analysis, create a few charts for someone to drop into their PowerPoint deck, and then they’ll make the same decision we knew they were going to make week ago regardless of the data. Jesus, I really want to quit and just do Japanese carpentry. Or be an international hit man, whichever is more stable and offers better benefits. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/76 "2016-11-21T00:52:07Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Bad news all around for Apple, but repatriating the back money would be the least worst option. You missed one. Move the whole company to a country like Canada or Ireland, which welcomes high-tech design jobs (and their associated taxes), and doesn’t have such idiotic repatriation and other tech-hostile laws which re-tax money that’s already been taxed in the country it was earned. > [@Declan](#): > > End the HB1 program, grandfather current visa holders till the end of their term. Dry up the pool of candidates that Silly valley has available, it was not just regional coal and auto workers that voted trump in. And that makes leaving the US a no-brainer. Most of the companies that have been starved for H1-B workers are already just hiring them in more tech-friendly places and doing less hiring in the US, period. The US political and educational system has been anti-science for so long now that there just aren’t enough Americans with the skill sets necessary. Paying lower wages to the H1-Bs (which in my experience is limited to a relatively few companies; the rest pay them as well or better than their American coutnerparts) is just a bonus when it happens – the option is often between hiring an H1-B or not hiring for the position at all. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/77 "2016-11-21T00:59:01Z")
ISTM the real point of the H1B folks, at least in IT, is to set up the long term complete outsourcing of the whatever. They form the in-country liaison force to the offshore contractors that do the work. To be sure, that’s not the case with the world-class superstars working for the world-class companies. They’re also a tiny minority of the H1B population. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/78 "2016-11-21T01:56:37Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > How did Appalachia vote? Solid Red. > The poor woman is worried about her insurance. > > You made your bed; sweet dreams, you ignorant bitch. To be fair, you only noted how her region as a whole voted…not how she personally voted. It could be that she was one of the enlightened minority in that region. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/79 "2016-11-21T05:46:25Z")
Ya’ know, if it was just “suckered in by Trump lies”, it’d be one thing. She and the rest of her solid-red county had already seen what the GOP wants to do with health insurance for the poor - cancel it as soon as you take office. How many other states voted in GOP Governors after having Medicaid expanded by a Dem Governor? No sympathy for anyone who votes in somebody who promptly does exactly what he said he would do. “You knew damned well I was a snake, When you took me in” ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448/80 "2016-11-21T06:51:16Z")
you know something that’s gonna happen too is what happened when a lot of factories tried to unionize in the 30s … they’ll just shut down due to being not worth the expense … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-bring-those-jobs-back-how/772448.md?page=5)