Let's bury the "Taxation is theft" meme once and for all

[foolsguinea]

I have found it.

@yorick73

I don’t recall the gospels mentioning that theft of one persons property for the benefit of another is okay.

Here you go. I’d actually responded to this post in its thread. (And he’s actually mistaken about the gospels; Jesus was SCARY.)

@elucidator

But all it boils down to is a exaltation of property rights above all others, and that is such a common dogma amongst conservatives that they don’t even notice it any more, its one of those things everybody knows, and nobody questions.

But its isn’t, it’s pure theory, its a leap of secular faith.

Well said.

@Shodan

Either someone’s labor is worth more than minimum wage, or it is not. If it is, a minimum wage does not prevent exploitation. If it is not, you don’t get hired. How does that prevent exploitation?

I think this argument is economically simplistic.

Isn’t working for less than you can live on dangerously foolish? In fact, one of Social Darwinism’s arguments is that those who agree to be paid poorly deserve to suffer because they made bad decisions. Looking at the position holistically, it becomes, “That fool entered into a contract with me; ergo, he is a moron & I may abuse him as I wish.”

I’m not convinced the government has an obligation to permit that. (That said, I do think the minimum wage should ideally be a soft, rather than hard, floor, & adaptable to deflation, not that that is relevant in the USA today.)

@Der_Trihs

No, government by democratic republic. As opposed to the plutocratic oligarchy that the libertarians want, where money talks and the common folk knuckle under.

Yeah, I’m the one who believes in Great Men & the Triumph of the Will. Get it right.

And about that…

@foolsguinea

What you’re proposing, OTOH, is idealistic socialism. Cute, but not proven to work.

Well, maybe it’s worked somewhere, but it’s not where our legal system comes from, & I think it’s a fantasy on the part of the ignorant & utopian.

I was being unfair there. There are several different social theories that have worked in different societies. Some don’t even recognize sovereignty over the land on the part of the state.

But if the people rule the land, then that’s a state. That’s what that is. And those people can raise taxes, or delegate to a government the authority to raise them. For public ends, ranging from paying tribute to the Mongols to building a hospital system.

If you’re a vassal, then your lord has some authority to do what he wants with what you have. (Especially to benefit his people, & they are **his **people.) Customary restrictions for the common welfare do apply in feudalism, though I don’t so much recall customary restrictions against the common welfare, which seems to be what the right wing want. :dubious:

OTOH, if you are in a republic, then the people rule, & they can do this stuff. Yeah, I know Locke had this whole thing about limited powers, but I don’t have to agree with everything Locke said. Limited powers are to prevent abuse of the ruled, not to keep the ruled from benefiting from rule.