# Let's change those "priority seat" signs on public transport. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 19, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091 "2014-03-19T16:34:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/41 "2014-03-19T23:38:29Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I’m not sure if in London those priority seats have the force of law behind them. If not I think its pretty useless. Its basically trying to shame people into having good manners. Its not the best way to do it. If the driver can’t force someone to get up you are still relying on someone’s good nature to obey the suggestion of the sign. I know its that way in some places in the US. The driver won’t even attempt to get involved because he really doesn’t have the authority to. A sign saying you must give up your seat for the disabled or get kicked off the bus with drivers who will enforce it is the only why I see to ensure it happens. I think they’re for shaming here too, but it usually works. Most people are polite. But the thing is, “priority” seats mean those are the first choice for people with disabilities, but ANY seat should be given up to such a person if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/42 "2014-03-19T23:43:46Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Not sure why that’s relevant, but of course I have. I’ve ridden public transportation most of my life. I avoid the priority seats, and will usually choose to stand instead of sitting in one. If I decide to use one, I’m ready to stand up at a moment’s notice. So you constantly scan with your eyes every single time people enter the bus or train and you could never possibly miss a person with a disability. And you couldn’t possibly not know someone is disabled because it’s always very obvious. Right? > [@](#): > > If I am in a regular seat, and someone else looks like they could use a sitdown, I will offer to stand. And you’ve never ever missed someone who wanted to sit in your seat? How would you know that? Can you read minds? > [@](#): > > No, I get the concept just fine. You’re wary of causing offence. I get that. > > But you’re missing the _subtlety_ in my point. You do not have to provide an explanation for why you’re offering the seat. You do not have to guess at someone’s disability or pregnancy. You do not, in sum, have to make any assumptions or jump to any potentially rude conclusions. You simply say “Here, would you like this seat?” Bullshit. The implication is often there. People rarely just get up and offer someone else their seat out of the blue just to be nice. That would be a nice world, sure, but since it doesn’t happen, both parties know there’s more to it. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/43 "2014-03-19T23:47:11Z")
**Sam** , instead of a sticker, you might consider getting a shirt printed up reading “Ask Me About My Severe and Extremely Painful RA…After You Let Me Sit the Fuck Down.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/44 "2014-03-19T23:49:24Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I don’t expect people to offer me their seats if they can’t see me. This is the fourth time I’ve said so, so I’m not sure why you’re arguing with me about that. Because that’s his MO. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/45 "2014-03-19T23:50:08Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I think they’re for shaming here too, but it usually works. Most people are polite. But the thing is, “priority” seats mean those are the first choice for people with disabilities, but ANY seat should be given up to such a person if necessary. The thing is, a polite person such as myself would not need a sign to them to give up my seat. A rude person will not care about a sign if there is no enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/46 "2014-03-19T23:50:28Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So you constantly scan with your eyes every single time people enter the bus or train and you could never possibly miss a person with a disability. And you couldn’t possibly not know someone is disabled because it’s always very obvious. Right? No, because I don’t give a fuck if someone’s disabled or not. If the bus is full, there is _always_ someone who needs a seat more than I. > [@](#): > > And you’ve never ever missed someone who wanted to sit in your seat? > > How would you know that? Can you read minds? Again, I don’t have to. I don’t sit in the priority seats. And if the bus is full, I stand so someone else can have my seat. > [@](#): > > Bullshit. The implication is often there. People rarely just get up and offer someone else their seat out of the blue just to be nice. That would be a nice world, sure, but since it doesn’t happen, both parties know there’s more to it. :shrug: Ok. You may be right. I’ll stick to erring on the side of nice and brave the (IMO) vanishingly tiny risk of offending someone. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/47 "2014-03-19T23:55:14Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The thing is, a polite person such as myself would not need a sign to them to give up my seat. A rude person will not care about a sign if there is no enforcement. Yes, you would, if you didn’t realize that there was someone nearby who needed the seat because you couldn’t see them in the crowd, or you were distracted by a newspaper or whatever, or the person’s disability isn’t obvious. All things we’ve already covered here. This is not just about people being rude. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/48 "2014-03-20T00:03:38Z")
As a driver, I’ll always give priority to handicapped passengers. They get the handicapped seats no matter how crowded the bus is. I’ve observed that people are surprisingly compliant about this, even stereotypically clueless teenagers will give up the seats if asked. Anybody that needs the seats, or needs the bus kneeled and close to the curb gets it on request. I always encourage people to ask if needed. In my agency, disabled passengers are taken very seriously. If a disabled passenger calls customer service telling them I refused to pull close, kneel the bus, or try and get them seated safely it could be a 3 day suspension without pay :eek: for me if they review the CCTV footage and conclude I was being a dick to some disabled passenger. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/49 "2014-03-20T00:06:27Z")
> [@andros](#): > > No, because I don’t give a fuck if someone’s disabled or not. If the bus is full, there is _always_ someone who needs a seat more than I. So you’re incredibly nice. Good for you. Do you actually expect everyone in a seat on a bus to constantly offer their seat to others just to be nice? Do you really think that makes sense, or is reasonable to expect? Everyone would constantly be standing and sitting. People who just gave up their seat would be offered another one. It’s not how the world works, and it doesn’t NEED to work that way, because we have other ways of determining who needs a seat. > [@](#): > > Again, I don’t have to. I don’t sit in the priority seats. There’s absolutely no reason you shoudn’t sit in a priority seat. If you see someone who needs it, you stand, as with any other seat. Priority simply means you stand before other people in the regular seats. > [@](#): > > And if the bus is full, I stand so someone else can have my seat. You’re very nice. Do you also let everyone ahead of you in line just in case they’re late for something or are disabled and can’t stand as long as you? Do you EVER get through a line? Do you always get up at movies and offer people behind you your seat just in case they might not have good vision? Do you always let people behind you in a bathroom line go ahead of you just in case they have to go more than you do? > [@](#): > > :shrug: Ok. You may be right. I’ll stick to erring on the side of nice and brave the (IMO) vanishingly tiny risk of offending someone. You do that. I’ll simply sit and let people who need my seat, on the off chance I don’t notice (in which case I would obviously get up and offer), to simply ask and brave the vanishingly tiny risk of offending someone for expecting them to say such a normal thing. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/50 "2014-03-20T00:08:46Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > As a driver, I’ll always give priority to handicapped passengers. They get the handicapped seats no matter how crowded the bus is. I’ve observed that people are surprisingly compliant about this, even stereotypically clueless teenagers will give up the seats if asked. > > Anybody that needs the seats, or needs the bus kneeled and close to the curb gets it on request. I always encourage people to ask if needed. In my agency, disabled passengers are taken very seriously. If a disabled passenger calls customer service telling them I refused to pull close, kneel the bus, or try and get them seated safely it could be a 3 day suspension without pay :eek: for me if they review the CCTV footage and conclude I was being a dick to some disabled passenger. Are you ever asked by a handicapped person to intervene if nobody will get up for them? Have you ever confronted a situation like that? ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/51 "2014-03-20T00:11:49Z")
I feel for you, **SciFiSam**. Commuting in London is bad enough even for the able-bodied. Unfortunately (for those who need seats), using public transport around here usually means playing a game of “How Close Can I Get to Other People and Still Pretend They’re Not There?” Somewhat in defence of **lance strongarm** , count me as someone who would find it pretty awkward to offer a seat to someone who didn’t obviously need it. Some people have chips on their shoulders and don’t want help even if everyone else thinks they’re entitled to it, and some people don’t want attention drawn to themselves. If the situation requires it, I try to keep an eye out for someone who might need a seat more than me, but if someone does need my seat and I don’t notice, I would expect them to ask. Fortunately, I’ve never had to worry about whether to offer or not, because I don’t normally sit down unless there are plenty of seats anyway. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/52 "2014-03-20T00:19:29Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Somewhat in defence of **lance strongarm** , count me as someone who would find it pretty awkward to offer a seat to someone who didn’t obviously need it. Some people have chips on their shoulders and don’t want help even if everyone else thinks they’re entitled to it, and some people don’t want attention drawn to themselves. Precisely my point. Thank you. It seems to me that, in a culture in which people are hesitant to ask for a seat as SciFiSam describes it, people would also be hesitant to ask if someone needs a seat. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/53 "2014-03-20T00:21:07Z")
**Sam,** I feel your pain (not literally most of the time these days, thank goodness, but I have literally in the past). After leg surgery and a prolonged period on crutches, during which I was forbidden to put any weight on my leg at all, my left calf had atrophied so drastically that it was skinnier in a plaster cast than my right calf was without one. After I was finally cleared to ride public transportation again (after having the lovely [external fixator](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilizarov_apparatus)removed), I hobbled on crutches to the train one fine summer day. I was wearing shorts, revealing the plaster cast up to my knee. Nobody offered me a seat, and the train wasn’t especially packed, but all the seats were taken, not just the priority ones. A number of young, seemingly able-bodied men were all apparently so absorbed in their newspapers, etc. (this was some years ago now) that nobody noticed me, or at least acknowledged noticing me. Luckily one nice guy standing next to me (mighty hot too as I recall) asked in a loud stage voice, “Shouldn’t you be sitting down?” “Why yes,” I replied, “but nobody seems to be offering me a seat.” Finally someone was embarrassed enough to give up a seat. The moral of the story? People can be self-centered assholes. Maybe there’s a way to deal with it humorously? I do still have issues with my left leg (I’m told I will be needing an ankle replacement down the line, and my ortho would do a joint fusion if I weren’t so damn stubborn about avoiding more surgery), so sometimes I am not the first to offer my seat to others if I am having a gimpy day. Maybe a fluorescent orange hat that says “GIMP” on the front or something? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/54 "2014-03-20T00:26:48Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > **Sam,** I feel your pain (not literally most of the time these days, thank goodness, but I have literally in the past). After leg surgery and a prolonged period on crutches, during which I was forbidden to put any weight on my leg at all, my left calf had atrophied so drastically that it was skinnier in a plaster cast than my right calf was without one. > > After I was finally cleared to ride public transportation again (after having the lovely [external fixator](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilizarov_apparatus)removed), I hobbled on crutches to the train one fine summer day. I was wearing shorts, revealing the plaster cast up to my knee. Nobody offered me a seat, and the train wasn’t especially packed, but all the seats were taken, not just the priority ones. A number of young, seemingly able-bodied men were all apparently so absorbed in their newspapers, etc. (this was some years ago now) that nobody noticed me, or at least acknowledged noticing me. Luckily one nice guy standing next to me (mighty hot too as I recall) asked in a loud stage voice, “Shouldn’t you be sitting down?” “Why yes,” I replied, “but nobody seems to be offering me a seat.” Finally someone was embarrassed enough to give up a seat. > > The moral of the story? People can be self-centered assholes. Maybe there’s a way to deal with it humorously? I do still have issues with my left leg (I’m told I will be needing an ankle replacement down the line, and my ortho would do a joint fusion if I weren’t so damn stubborn about avoiding more surgery), so sometimes I am not the first to offer my seat to others if I am having a gimpy day. Maybe a fluorescent orange hat that says “GIMP” on the front or something? So you’ve never been reading a newspaper and not noticed people around you? I wasn’t there, so I can’t say. But assuming that every single person on a bus was such an asshole that they were willing to ignore someone on crutches, rather than simply reading and not noticing you, is pretty cynical. It means you can’t ever read a newspaper again on a bus for fear of doing the same. What’s wrong with simply announcing, “Could someone please give up their seat for me?” to make sure you’re noticed? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/55 "2014-03-20T00:27:16Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Do you actually expect everyone in a seat on a bus to constantly offer their seat to others just to be nice? Nope, never said I did. > [@](#): > > Do you really think that makes sense, or is reasonable to expect? Yes to the first, no to the second. > [@](#): > > Everyone would constantly be standing and sitting. People who just gave up their seat would be offered another one. Oh please. > [@](#): > > It’s not how the world works, and it doesn’t NEED to work that way, because we have other ways of determining who needs a seat. Sure. And you’re absolutely right: sometimes it involves speaking up when you need one. Sometimes that’s not easy. > [@](#): > > There’s absolutely no reason you shoudn’t sit in a priority seat. If you see someone who needs it, you stand, as with any other seat. Priority simply means you stand before other people in the regular seats. Agreed. You asked what _I_ do. I told you. > [@](#): > > You’re very nice. Aw. That’s sweet. Why do I suspect you don’t mean it? > [@](#): > > Do you also let everyone ahead of you in line just in case they’re late for something or are disabled and can’t stand as long as you? Do you EVER get through a line? > > Do you always get up at movies and offer people behind you your seat just in case they might not have good vision? > > Do you always let people behind you in a bathroom line go ahead of you just in case they have to go more than you do? Are you doing a shtick here? 'Cos sorry, it’s not my brand of humor. No offense. > [@](#): > > You do that. I’ll simply sit and let people who need my seat, on the off chance I don’t notice (in which case I would obviously get up and offer), to simply ask and brave the vanishingly tiny risk of offending someone for expecting them to say such a normal thing. Works for me. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/56 "2014-03-20T00:30:50Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Somewhat in defence of **lance strongarm** , count me as someone who would find it pretty awkward to offer a seat to someone who didn’t obviously need it. Some people have chips on their shoulders and don’t want help even if everyone else thinks they’re entitled to it, and some people don’t want attention drawn to themselves. I get that. But in my experience the number of people who have such debilitating chips on their shoulders that they would take public offence to being offered a place to sit on a crowded bus is absolutely dwarfed by the number of people who would be grateful instead. Able-bodied or not. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/57 "2014-03-20T00:32:07Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Oh please. Please what? If everyone did what you do, that’s what would happen. > [@](#): > > And you’re absolutely right: sometimes it involves speaking up when you need one. Sometimes that’s not easy. Glad you agree with me. > [@](#): > > Aw. That’s sweet. Why do I suspect you don’t mean it? I do mean it. > [@](#): > > Are you doing a shtick here? 'Cos sorry, it’s not my brand of humor. No offense. No, I’m totally serious. Please answer the questions. If any are “no” please tell me why you don’t, since you seem to do a similar thing when on buses. > [@](#): > > Works for me. It does? Then why are you here in my face? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/58 "2014-03-20T00:35:20Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I get that. But in my experience the number of people who have such debilitating chips on their shoulders that they would take public offence to being offered a place to sit on a crowded bus is absolutely dwarfed by the number of people who would be grateful instead. Able-bodied or not. How do you know though? Can you read their minds? Have you frequently experienced both, and taken a tally? Well, no, you couldn’t really do that because you give up your seat to anyone, no matter whether they want or need it or not. So I’m not sure how you know this. In any event, the number of people I wouldn’t be sure I should ask is absolutely dwarfed by the number I would confidently offer it to, so that ratio works both ways. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/59 "2014-03-20T00:36:11Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So you’ve never been reading a newspaper and not noticed people around you? > > I wasn’t there, so I can’t say. But assuming that every single person on a bus was such an asshole that they were willing to ignore someone on crutches, rather than simply reading and not noticing you, is pretty cynical. It means you can’t ever read a newspaper again on a bus for fear of doing the same. I caught at least a couple of people peeking at me from behind their newspapers and then quickly burying their heads again. Also, not every single person on that train car, or even every seated person, was reading a newspaper. And some of them boarded at the same time as I did and took the remaining seats. > [@](#): > > What’s wrong with simply announcing, “Could someone please give up their seat for me?” to make sure you’re noticed? I didn’t need to because the nice guy standing next to me beat me to the punch. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/60 "2014-03-20T00:41:28Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > I caught at least a couple of people peeking at me from behind their newspapers and then quickly burying their heads again. Okay. Those are just assholes. They’re waiting for someone else to get up first. > [@](#): > > And some of them boarded at the same time as I did and took the remaining seats. Okay, now that’s assholery! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091.md?page=4)