# Let's change those "priority seat" signs on public transport. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 19, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091 "2014-03-19T16:34:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Athabasca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Athabasca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athabasca)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/121 "2014-03-20T18:49:16Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I wonder how hard a mental leap that is, to go from walking around to using a scooter. Obviously, it probably depends on your personality, but I could see that being a huge thing for a lot of people. It might depend on age or degree of infirmity. I have elderly relatives who welcomed the scooter when using a walker or cane became too risky and they wanted to maintain some independence. Interestingly, they refused the motorized wheelchair as it seemed too ‘disabled’. I don’t know the OP’s mind on this issue, or her age. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/122 "2014-03-20T18:59:40Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Not to speak for **Maeglin** (although, full disclosure, I find him _almost_ as dreamy as you) And my work here is done! ---
**Author:** ![Athabasca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Athabasca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athabasca)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/123 "2014-03-20T19:07:14Z")
I understand about the hand grip limitations, but I wonder if the walking difficulties and inherent risks in navigating upright aren’t more concerning? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/124 "2014-03-20T19:21:13Z")
> [@Athabasca](#): > > ScifiSam, I was wondering about the use of a motorized scooter or wheelchair? I think a Rascal scooter was mentioned earlier, but I’m not sure if that was answered. Is it possible for you? I don’t know how possible it is for her, but one also has to keep into account a) whether her home is also accessible; and b) where she would keep the darn thing if her home is not accessible. I found one very handy post-leg surgery either in my apartment or to be taken out on walks, but it required the assistance of someone else to get it down the stairs from my apartment. And I have to say, I did get on a bus with it a couple of times, which necessitated the driver kicking the little old ladies with canes out of the priority seats, because that was the only place to safely fasten the wheelchair. Being in my 20s at the time, it felt weird to me! ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/125 "2014-03-20T19:26:23Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > When I explained it painstakingly, which word didn’t you understand? I know “apotheosis” has a bunch of syllables, but I figured you might look it up. And when I explained why you were wrong, you didn’t respond. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/126 "2014-03-20T19:29:19Z")
> [@andros](#): > > In some ways, you’re right: **alexandra** and **Tom Tildrum** said some of the same things you’ve said. And yet, people have not–and will not–jump their shit. Might that not be worth thinking about? Yes, it’s definitely worth thinking about. > [@](#): > > Maybe it’s not the message, but the medium. Or maybe people somehow misunderstood me, or made stupid assumptions, or whatever. I don’t give a shit what people think of me. You probably figured that out. I’m just genuinely surprised at the reaction I got. Nobody can stand to actually explain it except to just spew more insults. I think that says alot too. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/127 "2014-03-20T19:30:35Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Not to speak for **Maeglin** (although, full disclosure, I find him _almost_ as dreamy as you), but…why bother? > > If other people think you’ve come across as a dick in this thread, but you remain convinced you have not, their explanations will fall on deaf ears. No examples will cause you to change your belief in your own righteousness. > > In some ways, you’re right: **alexandra** and **Tom Tildrum** said some of the same things you’ve said. And yet, people have not–and will not–jump their shit. Might that not be worth thinking about? > > Maybe it’s not the message, but the medium. You’re assuming that: (a) he cares what others think of him, and (b) not being considered an asshole is, in his mind, a desirable outcome and goal. I have doubts about both assumptions, particularly the second. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/128 "2014-03-20T19:46:21Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > You’re assuming that: > > (a) he cares what others think of him, and > > (b) not being considered an asshole is, in his mind, a desirable outcome and goal. > > I have doubts about both assumptions, particularly the second. This thread is full of jerks insulting me, for no good reason. And when I tell them why they’re the jerks, not me, and explain why, all they can think to do is insult me more. And now you’re one of those jerks. Only one of you has had the balls to even try to justify, like an adult, your attacks. I explained why that person was wrong, and he didn’t respond. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/129 "2014-03-20T20:45:20Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > This thread is full of jerks insulting me, for no good reason. And when I tell them why they’re the jerks, not me, and explain why, all they can think to do is insult me more. And now you’re one of those jerks. > > Only one of you has had the balls to even try to justify, like an adult, your attacks. I explained why that person was wrong, and he didn’t respond. > > Oh well. Because we would be going around in circles. You are not going to convince me that you are not a miscreant by restating your original misbehavior. It is a lost cause. When someone says “situation X is shitty,” if you do not have direct experience of this, a non-asshole takes that person at his word. Even if you disagree, the non-asshole thing to say is, “sucks man, wish you the best,” not “no, you’re wrong, suck it up because you have no alternative.” That, in a nutshell, is what you did. If you seriously don’t see this, well, I wish you all the best in your personal life, cause you’re going to need it. ---
**Author:** ![oz0ne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc348/32.png) [@oz0ne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oz0ne)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/130 "2014-03-21T00:25:36Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Lance: Makes perfectly reasonable suggestion that others later admit they agree is reasonable. > > Others: You stupid asshole! How dare you! > > So I’m the one with anger issues? > > Again, I’m the one with anger issues? > > Seriously, WTF is wrong with you? > > And yes, you were being really rude, and you’re still doing it. It’s even ruder to use disability as an insult in a thread about disability. Not only do you have anger issues, you fail abysmally at reading comprehension. I’ve already addressed these issues you’ve just stated a second time. Again, there is nothing wrong with me; life is good. I suspect you’re projecting your deficiencies on others. I’m through debating your inadequacies, I have real shit to do. And remember sugar pop, I still have lots of free hugs. Now go take your meds and make an effort to be less of an insufferable asshole. I hope you find peace inside that fucked up head of yours, sport. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/131 "2014-03-21T01:42:55Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > On a semi-related note, I do often have disabled people sit beside me in the regular seats. I do not know the _name_ of the disability that requires them to stick their elbows way out to the side and repeatedly strike me, but it must be a severe one, because anyone with a sense of personal space who wasn’t a complete psychopath would obviously stop. Is that related to the one that requires the legs to be at a 90-degree-or-greater angle so that at least one leg is crowding the person in the next seat? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/132 "2014-03-21T07:14:58Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Well, yeah - I gave up my seat for a troll with a disability. You gave up your seat for yourself? I didn’t know that was possible. (Sorry folks, I just couldn’t resist…he was asking for it. 😉 **Sam** , I think I can see your point, but there might be times when you just have to bite the bullet and ask, “Do you mind letting me have your seat? I can’t stand up due to such and such?” I understand the embarassment issue, but it might be your only option right now. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/133 "2014-03-21T08:43:08Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > OP, these stories about the tube make me think that you really SHOULD consider using the [services available](http://www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/transportaccessibility/1169.aspx#page-link-boarding-a-train-) to help those with a disability. > > It may sound like overkill to you, and obviously you know better than I, but maybe consider it. Or talk to them or others who use the services and see what they say? > > I’ll tell you, reading your story made me afraid that you could easily suffer a fall and serious injury. I’m worried for your safety! Has everyone missed this very excellent advice about services that seem to actually be offered? There was even a link. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/134 "2014-03-21T12:20:44Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Has everyone missed this very excellent advice about services that seem to actually be offered? There was even a link. You have to book and wait around; if you don’t book, because you don’t know the specific time you’ll get to the station, you have to wait even longer for them to find the staff. It’s not very practical for getting to work when you have to be on time and it’s every day. What it is useful for is hospital appointments, if you have time to leave very early, and social occasions. I did say most of this earlier in the thread. You know, I’m not “ignoring” advice because I’m wilfully ill or just plain stupid - with all this advice, either I’m already doing it and it doesn’t help as much as you’d expect, or I’m not doing it for a good reason. I’ve even given some of the reasons and for some people some of you seem to not believe me. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/135 "2014-03-21T12:53:16Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > You have to book and wait around; if you don’t book, because you don’t know the specific time you’ll get to the station, you have to wait even longer for them to find the staff. It’s not very practical for getting to work when you have to be on time and it’s every day. What it is useful for is hospital appointments, if you have time to leave very early, and social occasions. > > I did say most of this earlier in the thread. > > You know, I’m not “ignoring” advice because I’m wilfully ill or just plain stupid - with all this advice, either I’m already doing it and it doesn’t help as much as you’d expect, or I’m not doing it for a good reason. I’ve even given some of the reasons and for some people some of you seem to not believe me. Sounds like a frustrating situation. It’s a shame there isn’t an obvious, easy fix. It’s amazing that you manage to get to work and get through as debilitating as your RA sounds. I just wanted to wish you well. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/136 "2014-03-21T13:51:55Z")
For those suggesting a scooter, a lot of the tube station platforms can only be accessed voa an escalator or steps, so it’s likely that **Sam** wouldn’t be able to use one. The UK transport system really isn’t well designed for easy access. I worked for a wheelchair user a few years back, and it was pretty eye opening: we have genius stuff like train stations that only have accessible platforms in one direction, so you have to go another stop, change there, then get the train back a stop in order to leave the station; we have bus companies that happily claim to have ‘kneeling’ buses, but they really only have a couple on the whole damn network, so you need to call the company the day before and ask for one of them to be used on the route you plan to use, and heaven help you if they mess up, or you miss it. Also, for those saying ‘just speak up!’ I suggest you come to London and try it during rush hour sometime. Bring a megaphone, you’ll probably need it. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/137 "2014-03-21T15:36:40Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > For those suggesting a scooter, a lot of the tube station platforms can only be accessed voa an escalator or steps, so it’s likely that **Sam** wouldn’t be able to use one. The UK transport system really isn’t well designed for easy access. I worked for a wheelchair user a few years back, and it was pretty eye opening: we have genius stuff like train stations that only have accessible platforms in one direction, so you have to go another stop, change there, then get the train back a stop in order to leave the station; we have bus companies that happily claim to have ‘kneeling’ buses, but they really only have a couple on the whole damn network, so you need to call the company the day before and ask for one of them to be used on the route you plan to use, and heaven help you if they mess up, or you miss it. > > Also, for those saying ‘just speak up!’ I suggest you come to London and try it during rush hour sometime. Bring a megaphone, you’ll probably need it. Agreed. London underground does boast that it has over 60 step-free stations, but that must be including the DLR - which is all step-free - and definitely does include all the London Overground and some underground stations that are either out in the sticks or very new. Only a couple of central London stations are step-free; mine isn’t, and none of the stations near any potential workplaces are. TFL are doing their best to change this but they’re working with a Victorian system and it’s just not going to happen for most stations. I don’t think a scooter or wheelchair would be a good idea right now anyway, at least not for everyday use (I have used one a few times recently, borrowed at the airport and a museum), but healthwise it’s much better for me to stay walking as long as I can, which will hopefully be until I’m a very old lady. (somebody above asked; I’m 38. I was only diagnosed last year and am still getting used to it). The noise is true too. I don’t think some people realise that when I say I’d have to shout to ask for a seat, I really mean shout, and shout loudly. The rattling of the train drowns out the music in my headphones sometimes, it’s that loud. Looking at the possibility of asking for a seat on the rush hour train I took this morning, I reaffirmed that it isn’t really doable. I certainly couldn’t do the above-mentioned thing of asking to get through and then asking for a seat once I’m nearer. Remember, the whole reason for this is that I can’t walk very well at all and can’t hold the bars. The train shifts and wobbles so much that it’s hard for anyone to stand up without holding on - I would definitely fall. I have fallen heavily into people a couple of times already and had to be held up by them, the poor flummoxed strangers, and that’s without trying to make this trip across a train carriage that feels miles wide. Then getting to the non-priority seats, when the train is quieter, requires climbing over people’s legs. The gap between the seats in London tube trains (especially the central line) is tiny. And I really can’t climb. My worst fall was when trying to do this - toppled right into a passenger’s lap hands first. Got a seat, but my hands hurt like hell. When giving advice, you have to think about the situation including the specifics, not give advice that would work only if you ignore key features of the problem, like the moving train and the weak, unbending legs. These are things I have mentioned in this thread, after all. There will be plenty of other people on the train who have mobility problems, and they don’t ask for a seat either. I have literally never heard anyone do this in London. There are practical reasons for it. I did say I was venting about that, not asking for suggestions, and I’m glad some of you did actually see that. 🙂 As for changing my hours - to the extent that I can, I already do. It means making my salary much smaller, and doing ridiculous hours like travelling three hours to work two and a half, but I do it. Even then, it’s impossible to avoid the rush hour at least one way. I teach - there’s no flexitime. One of the things I do occasionally on the way home when I have more time is get off the train part way through the journey, take a seat on the platform, then start again. I’m also doing everything I can to mitigate the underlying problem - taking my medication even though it makes me sick and I’m losing my hair, going to Physio, doing exercises at home, taking vitamins, bathing in Epsom salts so often it’s become a chore instead of a pleasure, etc etc. Again, I don’t mind people giving advice even though I didn’t ask for it, because I understand the instinct to want to help. But I don’t really like being told I MUST take this advice even when there are good reasons why I can’t. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/138 "2014-03-21T15:39:22Z")
I also want to thank everyone in this thread for their sympathetic posts (yes, everyone). I don’t know why, but it does actually help a bit to get the moaning out there instead of all in my head, and know some people sympathise. ---
**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/139 "2014-03-21T16:28:57Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Are you ever asked by a handicapped person to intervene if nobody will get up for them? Have you ever confronted a situation like that? I am not a bus driver, but I did once witness a driver kick a passenger off the bus when he wouldn’t give up a priority seat for someone that needed it. He tried to argue that as a paying rider he had as much right to the seat as the disabled person. So the driver kicked him off the bus. It was awesome. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/140 "2014-03-21T16:48:11Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Has everyone missed this very excellent advice about services that seem to actually be offered? There was even a link. Even when I posted that, I knew that the likelihood of being able to use that twice a day every day would be slim. But perhaps the OP can use it on occasion, maybe during an extremely bad flare up or something. It’s good that such programs exist, but they are never quite as easy and straightforward as they seem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091.md?page=8)