# Let's change those "priority seat" signs on public transport. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 19, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091 "2014-03-19T16:34:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/141 "2014-03-21T17:08:23Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I also want to thank everyone in this thread for their sympathetic posts (yes, everyone). I don’t know why, but it does actually help a bit to get the moaning out there instead of all in my head, and know some people sympathise. Hang in there, **Sam**. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/142 "2014-03-21T17:31:52Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Even when I posted that, I knew that the likelihood of being able to use that twice a day every day would be slim. > > But perhaps the OP can use it on occasion, maybe during an extremely bad flare up or something. > > It’s good that such programs exist, but they are never quite as easy and straightforward as they seem. I have actually used it once, when going out for a social occasion at a station I knew had seating. It took a while. The wait makes it not very useful for work if you have to be there at a specific time, and at my tube station it would be laughably useless because I’d have to stand while waiting. I think it’s mainly intended for wheelchair users on occasional trips, either because they’re on their own or because carrying a chair up and down steep London escalators and stairs is the kind of back-breaking task that requires strong people with employee rights if they themselves get hurt by the task, and they can sit down for a rest afterwards. I’ve actually given the info to a friend in the past, when she needed to take her disabled teenager to a hospital appt by tube and had the time to arrive early. It’s TFL (Transport for London) doing the best they can to help people use our ancient system; it’s not a panacea and it really isn’t usable for everyday work. Outside the DLR (Docklands Light Railway, started in the late 80s in an area where lots of buildings could be bulldozed) It is extremely rare to see someone on the tube in a wheelchair and even rarer to see someone there in a wheelchair who doesn’t have someone with them. Green Park tube, in zone 1, is supposedly step-free, but you practically have to walk to another borough underground to find the lift, so that’s not terribly useful either. I mean, when I say it was a long walk, I mean even my friend who was with me was knackered by it. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/143 "2014-03-21T17:57:02Z")
> [@Motorgirl](#): > > I am not a bus driver, but I did once witness a driver kick a passenger off the bus when he wouldn’t give up a priority seat for someone that needed it. He tried to argue that as a paying rider he had as much right to the seat as the disabled person. So the driver kicked him off the bus. It was awesome. That IS awesome. Not only does priority seating mean he’s wrong to claim he had the same right to a seat under the rules of the bus system, he was a total rude dick even if that were true. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/144 "2014-03-21T17:58:33Z")
> [@oz0ne](#): > > Not only do you have anger issues, you fail abysmally at reading comprehension. I’ve already addressed these issues you’ve just stated a second time. Again, there is nothing wrong with me; life is good. I suspect you’re projecting your deficiencies on others. I’m through debating your inadequacies, I have real shit to do. And remember sugar pop, I still have lots of free hugs. Now go take your meds and make an effort to be less of an insufferable asshole. I hope you find peace inside that fucked up head of yours, sport. Again, I did nothing wrong. Whatever you think you saw, you didn’t. You have serious anger issues. Bye. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/145 "2014-03-21T19:51:43Z")
**Sam** , have you looked into eligibility for the dial a ride or taxicard services for people with mobility issues? If you are already getting the freedom pass you might be able to get it bumped up if your gp endorses it. I know that taxicard isn’t completely free, but easing that horrific sounding commute might allow you to go on working longer, or go back to your regular schedule and pay scheme. Apologies if this was mentioned and I missed it. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/146 "2014-03-21T20:17:33Z")
> [@camille](#): > > **Sam** , have you looked into eligibility for the dial a ride or taxicard services for people with mobility issues? > > If you are already getting the freedom pass you might be able to get it bumped up if your gp endorses it. I know that taxicard isn’t completely free, but easing that horrific sounding commute might allow you to go on working longer, or go back to your regular schedule and pay scheme. > > Apologies if this was mentioned and I missed it. I have a taxicard. I know this is going to sound defeatist, but once again it’s not usable for work. You only get four rides a month (though they do roll over) but the most awkward thing is there is no guarantee they’ll turn up at the time you request and they frequently don’t, especially at rush hour. One time they left me sitting in the street for two hours in the rain (after a cardio appt; I have pericarditis and a couple of other oddities) and all they could say was “sorry, but check out our terms of service - we might not turn up, so don’t use us for anything time-dependant.” However, I’ve found it really handy for getting home from social occasions and hospital appts. It’s just not for work. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/147 "2014-03-21T20:21:15Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I know this is going to sound defeatist, but once again it’s not usable for work. You only get four rides a month (though they do roll over) but the most awkward thing is there is no guarantee they’ll turn up at the time you request and they frequently don’t, especially at rush hour. That doesn’t sound defeatist to me. It sounds like you are a person who has realistically assessed the possibilities and are stuck dealing with a system that has things on the surface to help you but digging deeper makes them all unfeasible. I hear that, and I experienced some of it with my first husband’s disabilities. I’m just sorry you’re working with such an intractable situation. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/148 "2014-03-21T20:42:11Z")
I don’t think you’re being defeatist; the access a ride programs here in the States aren’t feasible for work either, it was just wishful thinking on my part. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/149 "2014-03-21T22:11:26Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > That doesn’t sound defeatist to me. It sounds like you are a person who has realistically assessed the possibilities and are stuck dealing with a system that has things on the surface to help you but digging deeper makes them all unfeasible. > > I hear that, and I experienced some of it with my first husband’s disabilities. I’m just sorry you’re working with such an intractable situation. And here’s where I step in again and urge you, SciFiFan, to “speak up.” Only this time, I think you should speak up and advocate for new accommodations for people with disabilities, such as accessible rides. And yes, they work in the states. In my city, the subway/bus system provides free rides on accessible vehicles just for people disabilities, any time. I have been involved in advocacy groups for people with disabilities, and one thing they are proud of and continue to urge each other to do is to speak up for themselves and advocate for more resources and for their rights. Over here, we have created several organizations for them to do just that. I’m sure you have them over there too. (I suppose I’ll be bashed again for such a horrible, horrible suggestion). ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/150 "2014-03-21T22:38:01Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > And here’s where I step in again and urge you, SciFiFan, to “speak up.” Only this time, I think you should speak up and advocate for new accommodations for people with disabilities, such as accessible rides. And yes, they work in the states. In my city, the subway/bus system provides free rides on accessible vehicles just for people disabilities, any time. > > I have been involved in advocacy groups for people with disabilities, and one thing they are proud of and continue to urge each other to do is to speak up for themselves and advocate for more resources and for their rights. Over here, we have created several organizations for them to do just that. I’m sure you have them over there too. > > (I suppose I’ll be bashed again for such a horrible, horrible suggestion). I get free transport. The facilities aren’t accessible because of their age and the difficulties in adapting them. TFL are doing their best, but it’s not going to happen overnight. Again, I have already said all this. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/151 "2014-03-21T22:49:36Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I get free transport. The facilities aren’t accessible because of their age and the difficulties in adapting them. TFL are doing their best, but it’s not going to happen overnight. I mean advocate for better facilities. Whatever the need, fight for it. Just like somebody fought for priority seats in the first place. Yes, it won’t happen overnight. Speaking of advocacy, I’m curious - do you have a law in the UK requiring private employers, etc. to provide accommodations like our [Americans with Disabilities Act?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_with_Disabilities_Act_of_1990) ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/152 "2014-03-21T23:09:49Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I mean advocate for better facilities. Whatever the need, fight for it. Just like somebody fought for priority seats in the first place. Yes, it won’t happen overnight. > > Speaking of advocacy, I’m curious - do you have a law in the UK requiring private employers, etc. to provide accommodations like our [Americans with Disabilities Act?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_with_Disabilities_Act_of_1990) I’m not sure what your point is except that you seem to need to tell me what to do. Do you seriously not understand my posts? And yes, we do have a Disability Discrimination Act. Why? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/153 "2014-03-21T23:44:55Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > That’s a good idea, but I think SciFiFan can’t carry one. She said she would have trouble with a cane. Mine has a strap to carry it over my shoulder. > [@SciFiSam](#): > > I’m not sure what your point is except that you seem to need to tell me what to do. Do you seriously not understand my posts? People who don’t have serious arthritis don’t get it. Shoot, I didn’t get the issues with the population density on the tube until someone posted pictures! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/154 "2014-03-22T00:25:44Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Mine has a strap to carry it over my shoulder. > > People who don’t have serious arthritis don’t get it. Shoot, I didn’t get the issues with the population density on the tube until someone posted pictures! 😉 Ah, the folding stool - forgot to mention that. I have a small one, also with a strap, for occasional use out and about (usually I don’t carry it myself because my shoulders are bad, but sometimes I do). Tubes and buses are very wobbly and a folding stool would definitely (100% certain) fall over. You also wouldn’t be able to find space for it on a crowded train and you’d get kicked off the bus. I have actually daydreamed about using one before, but it wouldn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/155 "2014-03-22T15:09:06Z")
Maybe this has already been answered, but why aren’t you availing yourself of the [disability services](http://beta.tfl.gov.uk/transport-accessibility/door-to-door-transport-services?intcmp=5723)? Assuming you’re in London because of “tube”… It sounds like subsidized cabs or vans would be a much better solution than subways and buses. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/156 "2014-03-22T15:10:44Z")
> [@LibrarySpy](#): > > Maybe this has already been answered, but why aren’t you availing yourself of the [disability services](http://beta.tfl.gov.uk/transport-accessibility/door-to-door-transport-services?intcmp=5723)? Assuming you’re in London because of “tube”… > > It sounds like subsidized cabs or vans would be a much better solution than subways and buses. See post #142. Sounds very impractical for routine use. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/157 "2014-03-22T15:29:32Z")
Damnit, asked and answered. Thanks, **IvoryTowerDenizen**! Sorry **SciFiSam**. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/158 "2014-03-22T16:30:14Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > This thread is full of jerks insulting me, for no good reason. And when I tell them why they’re the jerks, not me, and explain why, all they can think to do is insult me more. And now you’re one of those jerks. > > Only one of you has had the balls to even try to justify, like an adult, your attacks. I explained why that person was wrong, and he didn’t respond. > > Oh well. You repeatedly antagonized a cripple\*. You spoke up to defend a troll for antagonizing a cripple. People aren’t going to treat you well when you do that. When multiple people are offended by what you say, there is no explaining why you did it, there is just apologizing. Either you do it, and demonstrate that there may be hope for you, or you don’t, and then have to take the abuse heaped on you for it. One way or another, when you act like an asshole, there are consequences. If you don’t like that, it’s on you to change your behavior. It’s not like this is your only post that deliberately antagonizes people. And when you are the type of person who acts like that, it eventually catches up with you. If you absolutely can’t respond to people in a nice way, eventually they aren’t going to be nice to you either. Being an asshole means you will be treated like one. \*Sorry to use the term, but I have to try and get through to the idiot. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/159 "2014-03-22T16:48:42Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I don’t give a shit what people think of me. Which is inherently the problem. If you don’t care what people think of you, then you have no reason not to treat them poorly. And that results in you getting treated poorly. If you refuse to change that attitude, then you will get treated poorly throughout life. Treating someone poorly who treats other people poorly doesn’t make you a jerk. Sure, it violates Christian ethics, but most people on this board don’t follow those. Under their ethical system, treating an asshole poorly is just giving them their just deserts. You can apologize for offending people, or continue to be treated poorly. You deliberately threw an insult at the OP, one that directly related to her disability. That is wrong. You can’t explain this away. You defended someone who deliberately antagonized her. That can’t be explained away either. There’s exactly one proper response, and you refuse to give it because you “don’t care what other people think of you.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091/160 "2014-03-22T17:03:06Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Typical thread - someone comes in and says something innocuous (“you should just ask for a seat”), a bunch of assholes criticize him rudely for this perfectly reasonable suggestion, then more posters come along and agree with him, and then a consensus starts to develop, and the assholes disappear. You didn’t suggest she ask for a seat. You condemned her for assuming that people could tell she was disabled. Or, to be more precise, you defended someone doing the condemnation, and doubled down without repudiating their vitriol. Then you treated her like an idiot for not doing that very action–an action she had already mentioned in her post. Your entire attitude was to treat the OP with contempt. As long as you don’t understand that this is the wrong thing to do to a person with a disability who is complaining about said disability, you are going to be treated poorly on this board. And this is the last time I will try to teach you what you claimed you wanted to know. This is why you were being treated the way you were. You can’t undo the words on the page without apologizing, and if you are unwilling to do that, you will be treated the way your words indicate you deserve to be treated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-change-those-priority-seat-signs-on-public-transport/684091.md?page=9)