# Let's cheer the right-wing smear machine! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768 "2005-08-12T19:25:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/241 "2005-08-15T23:42:19Z")
From Christopher Hitchens’ article in Slate (hardly a right-wing rag): [http://slate.msn.com/id/2124500/](http://slate.msn.com/id/2124500/) “Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the army to protect America, not Israel.” - Cindy Sheehan What is it with her obsession with Israel? Does this strike anyone else as rather odd? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/242 "2005-08-15T23:46:50Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > What is it with her obsession with Israel? Does this strike anyone else as rather odd? No odder than your obsession with Michael Moore, really. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/243 "2005-08-15T23:47:01Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > What is it with her obsession with Israel? Does this strike anyone else as rather odd? The only “obsession” she seems to have is grieving for her dead son. If you’re trying to label her an antisemite, you don’t have a leg to stand on. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/244 "2005-08-16T00:03:54Z")
For what it’s worth, The New York Times has issued yet another correction of one of their lies…I mean, reporting errors. This time about the erroneous information they tried to pass along regarding Bill O’Reilly’s statements about Cindy Sheehan. [http://www.nytimes.com/ref/pageoneplus/corrections.html](http://www.nytimes.com/ref/pageoneplus/corrections.html) From the article: An article on Saturday about Cindy Sheehan, the antiwar protester whose son died in Iraq and who is camped out near President Bush’s ranch in Crawford, Tex., quoted incorrectly from remarks about her by Bill O’Reilly, the Fox News television host. Mr. O’Reilly did not call Ms. Sheehan treasonous. His comment, during his program on Tuesday, referring to applause for her cause on an antiwar Web site, was, “I think Ms. Sheehan bears some responsibility for this, and also for the responsibility of other American families who have lost sons and daughters in Iraq, who feel that this kind of behavior borders on treasonous.” And on Wednesday he added, “I said some families who also lost loved ones in Iraq believe what she’s doing borders on treason.” Just in case any of you Lefties were relying on the original Times lie for your info. How the New York Times retains _any_ credibility at all is beyond my comprehension. A few days they misreported a statement from Al Franken about concerning the Air America scandal. He had said the former owner of the network had been “robbing Peter to pay Paul.” The Times ran the quote as “…he was _borrowing_ from Peter to pay Paul.” Ha ha ha. They issued a correction a few days later. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/245 "2005-08-16T00:10:19Z")
> [@bizzwire](#): > > **Scylla** and **Shodan** : I know you people on the right-ish side don’t all march in lock-step; I respect your opinion, but I’m curious- do you think **Stephe** ’s attempted character assasination helps? Like I said, I feel bad for her, and I think both sides are using her. I haven’t read this article, and frankly I don’t care to. Clearly, she has problems. She lost her son. Lest I seem like I’m waffling, I’m not. Beating up on this woman is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/246 "2005-08-16T00:29:51Z")
It’s really very simple: 1. It’s very sad that this woman lost her son. 2. The fact that she lost her son does not give her one ounce of extra weight regarding her opinion of the Iraq war. This would be true if she were for or against it. 3. Whether she’s ‘brainwashed’ or not (and I think that’s a silly charge), it’s obvious that the left is using her, and therefore has a vested interest in claiming that she has immense moral weight behind her opinion, that she must be listened to, that anyone who dismisses her opinion is guilty of ‘smearing’ her, ad nauseum. 4. This would be just as true if she were a war supporter camped out on Ted Kennedy’s doorstep. Then the right would be claiming her immense moral right to be heard, and the left would be dismissing her as a tool of the right-wing propaganda machine. 5. This is all theater. In the last poll I saw, 79% of active duty military and 65% of their families support the Iraq war. Think about that. Almost 80% of the people actually serving in the war support it. That kind of cuts the legs out from under the ‘chickenhawk’ argument, and it also means that Mrs. Sheehan’s opinion isn’t even shared by a majority of her fellow war families. Therefore, her opinion on the war should carry no more weight than anyone else’s. I’d even say that someone carrying such an emotional burden should have her opinion discounted anyway, since it’s biased by her tremendous loss. In the same vein, I wouldn’t want someone who’s child was murdered by a thug dictating how we should try accused murderers, or someone who was injured in an accident deciding tort law. The old saying that extreme cases make for bad law has a corollary: Mothers of fallen soldiers should not be dictating military policy. As for Bush meeting with her, that would be silly. First, you don’t get a special ‘meet the president’ pass just because you’re camped out on his doorstep, and meeting with her would set a bad example. Second, it’s obvious that her demand to meet with him has nothing to do with per personal need for closure or anything else, but is simply a political stunt. If he were to meet with her, I have no doubt she’d come out of that meeting claiming she was completely dissatisfied and that he was close-minded and refused to listen to reason and probably all kinds of unkind things. And then there would be 100 Cindy Sheehans camped at his gate next week. The moral posturing on the left and right over stuff like this is just annoying. This is a sideshow. It means nothing. It’s clever politics - put up a woman who garners instant sympathy, and user her as an anvil to hammer on anyone who might disagree with her. I would have hoped the people on the left on this board would be a little more intelligent and/or honorable than to fall lock-step into this silly ploy. You’re good enough to argue the war on its merits, rather than this type of grandstanding nonsense. And it will be interesting to see how you all react when a Republican mother who lost her son (or fifty of them) comes forward to support the President. Because both sides can play that game. And it will be just as meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/247 "2005-08-16T00:39:55Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > I would have hoped the people on the left on this board would be a little more intelligent and/or honorable than to fall lock-step into this silly ploy. You’re good enough to argue the war on its merits, rather than this type of grandstanding nonsense. > > And it will be interesting to see how you all react when a Republican mother who lost her son (or fifty of them) comes forward to support the President. Because both sides can play that game. And it will be just as meaningles. I pretty much agree with your post, but to be fair there have been many self-identified “lefties” and “Bush-haters” on this board who have taken a reasonable view of the situation saying that Bush has no obligation to meet with her. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/248 "2005-08-16T00:41:17Z")
> [@Spiny Norman](#): > > Whatever works for you, dude. Oh, and by the way, just to spare you some research: I’m a Dane (as in Denmark) - go have some fun digging for historical slurs regarding my nationality. Sure thing you cheese-making, land reclaiming, corporation inventing, superior ship-building, thrifty, industrious, pleasant and attractive… Ahh fuck it. The fact is you guys are pretty cool. How do you manage to live on the same continent with the Spanish? > [@](#): > > Actually, and all silliness aside, it seems to me that Spain has the right idea: Elected officials who decide to join (or start) needless wars and spin terror attacks to further their own political goals do not deserve to be reelected, they deserve to be thrown on the scrapheap of history. Would that a few more US voters had gotten that message a little earlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In case you don’t get it, I really don’t give a shit about the Spanish per se, I was just interested in returning a favor and characterizing **Redfury** in the most ignorant, general, and prejudiced fashion possible. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/249 "2005-08-16T00:43:54Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > 1. This is all theater. I’m not sure why you denigrate theatre like that **Sam**. Colin Powell’s WMD presentation to the UN was nothing but theatre, and look at the profit your team has made off of _that_! Theatre is powerful stuff. Sometimes it moves nations in directions truth or logic never could. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/250 "2005-08-16T00:55:01Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I pretty much agree with your post, but to be fair there have been many self-identified “lefties” and “Bush-haters” on this board who have taken a reasonable view of the situation saying that Bush has no obligation to meet with her. I should have said, “Those on this board who are regurgitating the party line over this”. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/251 "2005-08-16T02:15:29Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > I should have said, “Those on this board who are regurgitating the party line over this”. Physician, heal thyself. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/252 "2005-08-16T05:50:54Z")
It’s a sad day in Right-Wing Bizarroworld when “Let’s treat the parents of fallen servicemen with kindness and respect” is considered a “party line.” :rolleyes: There are folks whose kids have died in Iraq and still support the war, yet I don’t know of any anti-war folks who would condemn those parents the way the Bush apologists have been bashing on Mrs. Sheehan. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/253 "2005-08-16T06:04:35Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > From Christopher Hitchens’ article in Slate (hardly a right-wing rag): [http://slate.msn.com/id/2124500/](http://slate.msn.com/id/2124500/) > “Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the army to protect America, not Israel.” - Cindy Sheehan > What is it with her obsession with Israel? Does this strike anyone else as rather odd? This is slightly off-topic but Christopher Hitchens is not the best person to cite if you’re looking for support of your argument from a “left-wing” source. Although he hasn’t admitted it yet, it’s been obvious to anyone who’s been reading his columns that Hitchens has been lurching rightward for at least the last ten years. (The intense hatred he expressed towards the Clintons during the 90’s would’ve been at home on Rush Limbaugh). On the Iraqi War, he’s been a hawk’s hawk and has never once questioned the Bush Administration’s policy. Moreover, as evident in his evisceration of Cindy Sheehan in this week’s column, he’s been unmercifully nasty towards anybody saying anything remotely critical about the war. Were it not for the fact that Hitchens occasionally tosses in an anti-religious or pro-free speech column to remind everyone of his leftist roots, he could very easily fit in with the pro-war hawks at the National Review, The Weekly Standard, or the American Spectator. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/254 "2005-08-16T06:17:47Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > IThere are folks whose kids have died in Iraq and still support the war, yet I don’t know of any anti-war folks who would condemn those parents the way the Bush apologists have been bashing on Mrs. Sheehan. So, anyone who continues to support Bush and the Iraq war has “drunk the coolaid” unless they are a parent of a soldier who died in Iraq? Guess I missed that exception to the rule. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/255 "2005-08-16T07:38:03Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > Moreover, as evident in his evisceration of Cindy Sheehan in this week’s column… \*Evisceration? \* Hardly! Merely a common-sense evaluation of the situation, combined with a well-deserved swipe or two at another liberal columnist who has about as much credibility (and critical thinking skills) as Janeane Garofolo, Maureen Dowd. > [@ndp](#): > > Were it not for the fact that Hitchens occasionally tosses in an anti-religious or pro-free speech column to remind everyone of his leftist roots, he could very easily fit in with the pro-war hawks at the National Review, The Weekly Standard, or the American Spectator. I have to admit, given that Hitchens doesn’t completely toe the liberal line, how it is that Graydon Carter, Vanity Fair’s rabidly leftist editor, has allowed Hitchens so many of his spot-on analyses of leftist behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/256 "2005-08-16T07:46:35Z")
Hmm…and I even previewed that, too. I meant to say, “I have to admit, given that Hitchens doesn’t completely toe the liberal line, I’ve wondered how it is that…etc.” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/257 "2005-08-16T12:00:51Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > WTF are you talking about? Just because a website ([Crooksandliars.com](http://Crooksandliars.com), very impartial I bet :rolleyes:) posts something about Drudge or O’Reilly doesn’t make them a liar. Please point out anything that they have said which is not true. > > Sheehan has been inconsistent in her story. She is in bed with some radical elements of the anti-Bush left such as Michael Moore, Code Pink, and [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org). Her family is opposed to her rhetoric since she’s been taken in by these groups. Drudge and O’Reilly are simply reporting this. That doesn’t make them liars. > > Simply chanting something over and over doesn’t make it true. You can point fingers at those who disagree with you and call them liars all day long. It won’t make you any less wrong. All right, looks like defending the lying liars even though, rationally speaking, you don’t have a leg to stand on, will be the game. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/258 "2005-08-16T12:03:13Z")
> [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > So the lefties are now quoting a site named “[crooksandliars.com](http://crooksandliars.com)” to back up their positions? 😃 It’s named for various Bush admin officials and their supporters. Sometimes you have to call a thing what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/259 "2005-08-16T12:04:55Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > According to The Smoking Gun [Sheehan's Husband Seeks Divorce | The Smoking Gun](http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0815051sheehan1.html) > Cindy Sheehan’s husband, Patrick, has filed for divorce. Hmmm. I’m just speculating here, but let’s see how the Leftist loons treat him now. Is he a traitor? I wonder how quickly they’ll move to demonize the husband…who, after all, has also lost a son in Iraq. > > I suspect that he realizes Cindy has been snared and brainwashed by the Michael Morons (sort of like the Scientologists) and he knows she’s never coming back. I wish I had the power to bring Casey Sheehan back to life, give him a copy of the things you’ve posted about his mother, and your RL name and address. I’d really enjoy watching THAT confrontation! I don’t believe the troops would be supporting YOU. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/260 "2005-08-16T12:15:06Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > From Christopher Hitchens’ article in Slate (hardly a right-wing rag): [http://slate.msn.com/id/2124500/](http://slate.msn.com/id/2124500/) > “Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the army to protect America, not Israel.” - Cindy Sheehan > What is it with her obsession with Israel? Does this strike anyone else as rather odd? Do a little googling about PNAC and neocon and I think you’ll see where Israel ties in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768.md?page=14)