# Let's cheer the right-wing smear machine! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768 "2005-08-12T19:25:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/301 "2005-08-16T20:33:14Z")
> [@light strand](#): > > Goddamn you’re a dense little one aren’t you. I’ve already given you a valid [cite](http://www.thereporter.com/search/ci_2923921) where your above assumptions are shown false. That is the original 2004 source of all of the shit the right been flinging like three year old Macaques. Moreover, your conspiratorial suspicions don’t mean a tinker’s damn in the real world. I give you info, educate yourself. The Swiftboaters lied, and Sheehan didn’t like the Bush policy prior to her first visit. I’ll try one more time. From your own cite! —“I now know he’s sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis,” Cindy said after their meeting. “I know he’s sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he’s a man of faith.” The meeting didn’t last long, but in their time with Bush, Cindy spoke about Casey and asked the president to make her son’s sacrifice count for something. They also spoke of their faith. While meeting with Bush, as well as Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, was an honor, it was almost a tangent benefit of the trip.— Like I said…she could’ve called him a “murderer” then and there but she didn’t. She chose to honor her son and behave as he would’ve wanted her to. Fine. What has changed her position? Who has gotten to her and made her want to not honor her son’s wishes? Bush isn’t “stumping for votes” now, is he? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/302 "2005-08-16T20:37:39Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Because she’s already met with Bush. She could’ve called him a ‘murderer’ to his face. She didn’t. She said nice things about him. “Please sacrifice another child for an additional visit with the President”? ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/303 "2005-08-16T20:45:28Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > “Please sacrifice another child for an additional visit with the President”? You know, that’s another reason I tend to believe Michael Moore is behind this stunt. In her interview with Chris Matthews, Sheehan refers to US troops as “children.” That’s a typical Moore strategy. “Would you sacrifice your child to secure Fallujah?” As if we have a military of nine-year-olds over there. As for my response to Moore’s idiotic question? “No, Michael, I wouldn’t. Would you sacrifice your child to cure cancer?” ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/304 "2005-08-16T21:07:53Z")
[QUOTE=Stephe96] I’ll try one more time. From your own cite! [QUOTE] So apparently your reading skills aren’t quite as developed as your conspiracy ones are. > [@](#): > > —“I now know he’s sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis,” Cindy said after their meeting. “I know he’s sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he’s a man of faith.” I don’t know anyone thinks he’s not sincere about freedom for the Iraqis, but that is not the issue. She wants to know why he went. Quite frankly so do I. I think he’s sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis, but I don’t think that’s why he went. And “some” grief isn’t an overwhelming endorsement > [@](#): > > The meeting didn’t last long, but in their time with Bush, Cindy spoke about Casey and asked the president to make her son’s sacrifice count for something. They also spoke of their faith. Isn’t this exactly what she says she want to discuss with him? [quote] While meeting with Bush, as well as Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, was an honor, it was almost a tangent benefit of the trip.— [//quote]What the fuck does this have to do with anything. It’s editorializing. But I did notice you cut out the bottom part which stated "The Sheehans said they enjoyed meeting the other families of fallen soldiers, sharing stories, contact information, grief and support. ", editorializing, but certainly context is a good thing. > [@](#): > > Like I said…she could’ve called him a “murderer” then and there but she didn’t. She chose to honor her son and behave as he would’ve wanted her to. Fine. What has changed her position? Who has gotten to her and made her want to not honor her son’s wishes? Bush isn’t “stumping for votes” now, is he? She says why she didn’t. In addition, perhaps her husband, or the other families were moderating factors. The point was, that they were unhappy with policy prior to the fist meeting, despite what Rush tells you. Just tell me on thing. How the hell did Michael Moore start this? Did he know her prior to her plans to camp out? Have they ever even met? ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/305 "2005-08-16T21:17:26Z")
> [@light strand](#): > > [Just tell me on thing. How the hell did Michael Moore start this? Did he know her prior to her plans to camp out? Have they ever even met? That’s all I’m asking. I think the public deserves to know if Cindy Sheehan is simply part of a Michael Moore publicity stunt. Her vigil has all the earmarks of Moore’s strategy. AND she’s posting daily to Moore’s website. That suggests to me _some_ kind of agreement between the two. I’d simply like to know who’s idea the vigil was. Also, she says in the Matthews interview that her husband disagrees with the “intensity” of her tactics. Is it possible that Casey’s father doesn’t believe his son’s memory should be exploited by someone like Michael Moore? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/306 "2005-08-16T21:23:59Z")
**light strand** , IIRC, you and I had a bit of a heated exchange not too long ago, perhaps due to my faulty memory, perhaps due to a mutual misunderstanding. Be that as it may, allow me to congratulate on all your recent postings on this matter. Impressive. Not only do I think you’re coming off as smart and eloquent, but tough as nails as well. Regrettably a required trait when dealing with many a Bush backer and/or members of the make-our-own-reality. Not that I am telling you anything you didn’t already know, but hey, just wanted to set the record straight…if it needed setting. I realize I may well appear ‘radical’ in my condemnation of current US actions in Iraq, specially by American standards, but the truth of the matter is that I am quite fond of both your country and your people – the fact that [my son’s a born and bred American](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v259/OwnRules/P1010009.jpg) should be a testament to that fact. Of course, others still might point to the fact that I twice failed in marriage to Americans and draw a different conclusion. Hey! I tried, I really did! Anyway, although I’ve said in the past – and more than once – that I am not here to make friends/win popularity awards, I don’t really chew nails or walk on glass. Just don’t let the 101st Keyboarders in on that 😉 BTW, here’s hoping your husband stays out of harm’s way – preferably in your arms. All the best to you and yours, ~Red PS-Probably not a good idea posting this in The Pit. But what the hey, I’m low on vitriol at the moment. No doubt **Sam** or **Scylla** will be of great help in that department. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/307 "2005-08-16T22:15:21Z")
Michael Moore, Michael Moore – _The face of the demon Liberalism!_ I can just picture all those neocon mommies telling their children, “If you don’t behave this instant, the MichaelMoore will come and get you!” _"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!_ I’ll be good, Mommy, I promise I will! Please don’t let the MichaelMoore get me!" ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/308 "2005-08-16T22:46:00Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Also, she says in the Matthews interview that her husband disagrees with the “intensity” of her tactics. Is it possible that Casey’s father doesn’t believe his son’s memory should be exploited by someone like Michael Moore? It’s possible, but you certainly can’t tell from the man’s statements because they make no mention of Michael Moore. No, wait, lemmee guess: he’s covering for her, right? He’s part of this conspiracy too! That Michael Moore sure is clever to get the husband in on the act. Does his tyranny know no bounds? ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/309 "2005-08-16T23:30:46Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > That’s all I’m asking. I think the public deserves to know if Cindy Sheehan is simply part of a Michael Moore publicity stunt. Her vigil has all the earmarks of Moore’s strategy. AND she’s posting daily to Moore’s website. That suggests to me _some_ kind of agreement between the two. I’d simply like to know who’s idea the vigil was. > > Also, she says in the Matthews interview that her husband disagrees with the “intensity” of her tactics. Is it possible that Casey’s father doesn’t believe his son’s memory should be exploited by someone like Michael Moore? You see, I just got XM radio, so it’s been my new hobby to listen to the “right wing smear machine”, and the factual errors are astounding! However, I was listen to this Larry guy on ABC radio and he had a really funny point something to the effect of “Dean said I have three words for you ’ we must do better’”. Now that’s funny!. But he beat that horse to a pulp. To the point where it just wasn’t particularly relevant anymore. That’s what this Michal Moore thing is. An interesting point, that just isn’t relevant after you think about it. I mean _really_ think about it. It’s simply not logical. As a scientist I go with Occam (as mentioned somewhere here). The simplest solution is that there is **no** conspiracy. It’s simply expedient. Why should I not believe the vigil was her idea? How complex is it: “Hey Bush is at his ranch, perhaps I should go there?” I have more complex thoughts in my dreams (although I also have been known to solve calculus problems I my dreams too). This is not complex. The funny thing is, that despise how much I hear about the main steam media obsession with her, the right stream is simply obsessed! I couldn’t even listen to the drivel today, because they just wouldn’t stop. I get it! But then again, I have to say, for all of bitching about why the media doesn’t cover the families of dead soldiers who support the war. I switched to the sports station. They were talking about Raphael Palermo, and I wonder why they weren’t covering all of the guys who aren’t doing drugs? Do you see it? Dog bites man…not story. Man bites dog, now _that’s_ a story! ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/310 "2005-08-16T23:38:34Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > I think the public deserves to know if Cindy Sheehan is simply part of a Michael Moore publicity stunt. :rolleyes: Gee, did we pass a law saying that it’s illegal to be associated with Michael Moore? I must’a missed that in the morning Moment Of Unrestrained Praise For Our Glorious Leader GWBush Session. > [@Stephe96](#): > > AND she’s posting daily to Moore’s website. “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.” –_The Princess Bride_ Considering that Cindy’s blog has been updated almost daily on a dozen sympathetic web sites (among them Huffington’s blog, Democratic Underground, Daily Kos, and TruthOut), this is as disingenious as saying Fox News is affiliated with Al Qaeda just because the former reports on the latter. For all we know (and I’m sure you don’t have any evidence contrarywise), Cindy is simply e-mailing updates to a mailing list, and sympathetic folks like those above are merely reposting them. But no, that makes too much sense; you gotta have your little “secretly affiliated with the _evvvvvvvvvvvvil_ Michael Moore” meme fix, don’cha? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/311 "2005-08-16T23:48:53Z")
As long as they keep the anti-war people spending their time and effort fighting the _ad hominem_ attacks, they’ll never have to actually address the woman’s claims. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/312 "2005-08-16T23:49:43Z")
**RedFury** Thanks, for the kind words. Your son is a handsome young man. My Dear friend is a Spainard (from Vigo). Her mother just came to visit here (TX) and woe be to person who has bad things to say about Americans to her. I think all of us are far more similar that different. Be assured, my husband is fine, he retires from the Marines in Oct. Twenty years is plenty. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/313 "2005-08-17T00:04:43Z")
An additional thought: given how the right-wing smear machine characterizes Michael Moore as a shameless glory hound, wouldn’t you expect him to be down there in Crawford mugging for the cameras if he really _was_ behind all this, as **StepheNutjob** claims? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/314 "2005-08-17T00:51:41Z")
[Bush Neighbor Lets War Protesters Use Land](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050817/ap_on_re_us/peace_mom) > [@](#): > > One of President Bush’s neighbors will allow use of his land by dozens of war protesters who have camped in roadside ditches the past 11 days, giving them more room and halving their distance from Bush’s ranch. > Demonstrators said Fred Mattlage made the offer because he sympathizes with them. There’s one the right wing smear machine hasn’t gotten to yet. I wonder if he’s gay, or just fat like Michael Moore? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/315 "2005-08-17T01:23:39Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > An additional thought: given how the right-wing smear machine characterizes Michael Moore as a shameless glory hound, wouldn’t you expect him to be down there in Crawford mugging for the cameras if he really _was_ behind all this, as **StepheNutjob** claims? You know, you just inadvertently hit on what is so damn peculiar here: why the hell _isn’t_ Michael Moore down in Crawford this week?! ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/316 "2005-08-17T01:27:00Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > You know, you just inadvertently hit on what is so damn peculiar here: why the hell _isn’t_ Michael Moore down in Crawford this week?! Perhaps your confusion about that may have something to do with the fact that your hydrocephalic brain cannot process information properly. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/317 "2005-08-17T02:08:09Z")
For those who wanted a cite for the support for the war in the military: [Annenburg public policy center poll of military on Iraq war](http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/naes/2004_03_2military-data_10-16_pr.pdf). Note that this poll is almost a year old - something I didn’t realize earlier. Also note that there’s plenty of ammunition for both sides of the debate, although it’s clear that the military supports both Bush and the war in much greater numbers than does the public at large. For example: **Do you approve or disapprove of George W. Bush’s handling of the war in Iraq?** Actively serving military members: 68% approve Their families: 55% Note that of those who disapprove, it’s quite likely that a some percentage of them think they should have been even more aggressive. That may be reflected in this question: **Do you think the U.S. should keep military troops in Iraq until a stable government is established there, or do you think the U.S. should bring its troops home as soon as possible?** Active duty military: 79% YES Their familiies: 65% YES Cindy Sheehan: NO But of course, she’s only one who’s sacrifice entitles her to a big megaphone. Other interesting questions: **Do you think the regular forces sent to Iraq were properly trained and equipped for service there?** Active Duty: 67% yes, 17% no It’s an article of faith among the anti-war crowd that Bush sent the troops in with inadequate armor and supplies. But only 17% of the soldiers actually serving in the war agree. The polls also break out the answers by rank. For example, 64% of officers serving in the war agree with Bush’s handling of the conflict. 65% think the troops were adequately trained and equipped for the mission. and 76% of the officers think the U.S. should stay in Iraq until there is a stable government. And if you look at table C, at the time this poll was taken only 41% of the public agreed with Bush on the war, vs 63% overall for the military sample. ---
**Author:** ![Barely\_Adequate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@Barely\_Adequate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barely_Adequate)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/318 "2005-08-17T02:13:24Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > _“And it will be interesting to see how you all react when a Republican mother who lost her son (or fifty of them) comes forward to support the President. Because both sides can play that game. And it will be just as meaningless.”_ I’m not so sure about “meaningless”. When Drudge, O’Reilly and Hannity get done polishing it up, we may see movement toward having “Republican Mom” emblazoned on Mt Rushmore, right next to Reagan. You gotta’ admit those 3 know how to do their assigned tasks. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/319 "2005-08-17T02:17:02Z")
> [@The Tooth](#): > > It’s possible, but you certainly can’t tell from the man’s statements because they make no mention of Michael Moore. > > No, wait, lemmee guess: he’s covering for her, right? He’s part of this conspiracy too! That Michael Moore sure is clever to get the husband in on the act. Does his tyranny know no bounds? Why, that’s so diabolical…it sounds downright _Rovian!!!_ ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/320 "2005-08-17T02:22:16Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Note that this poll is almost a year old - something I didn’t realize earlier. Also note that there’s plenty of ammunition for both sides of the debate, although it’s clear that the military supports both Bush and the war in much greater numbers than does the public at large. I have no problem agreeing that the people inclined to join the military are the same type of people that would support a war. > [@](#): > > **Do you think the regular forces sent to Iraq were properly trained and equipped for service there?** > > Active Duty: 67% yes, 17% no > > It’s an article of faith among the anti-war crowd that Bush sent the troops in with inadequate armor and supplies. But only 17% of the soldiers actually serving in the war agree. Was this question asked of the military in general, or of those who served in Iraq? > [@](#): > > And if you look at table C, at the time this poll was taken only 41% of the public agreed with Bush on the war, vs 63% overall for the military sample. If the poll was taken a year ago, as claimed above, the public agreement with Bush on the invasion of Iraq was still over 50%. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768.md?page=17)