# Let's cheer the right-wing smear machine! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768 "2005-08-12T19:25:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/321 "2005-08-17T02:29:43Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > it’s clear that the military supports both Bush and the war in much greater numbers than does the public at large. And to what do you attribute this astounding spinlet? Surely it couldn’t be because active duty troops would find it deleterious to their careers to be forthcoming about their true feelings about their Commander-in-Chief? Where are the polls from veterans, who can safely express themselves without risking the rath of the Pentagon? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/322 "2005-08-17T02:30:46Z")
_wrath_ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/323 "2005-08-17T02:58:25Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Why, that’s so diabolical…it sounds downright _Rovian!!!_ Naw, any dittohead can make claims on a message board then refuse to back them up. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/324 "2005-08-17T03:15:04Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > And to what do you attribute this astounding spinlet? Surely it couldn’t be because active duty troops would find it deleterious to their careers to be forthcoming about their true feelings about their Commander-in-Chief? Where are the polls from veterans, who can safely express themselves without risking the rath of the Pentagon? Oh, please. What, you think the survey was done while their officers watched? You don’t think the pollsters might have taken that into account? And since the officers questioned were also supportive of Bush, doesn’t that undercut your argument? In any event, it should be obvious to everyone that Bush is wildly popular among active-duty military. He gets wild cheers whenever he’s with them. I’d guess that he’s more popular within the military than any President since Reagan. If you need another data point to support this, how about the 2004 election? [Military supports Bush 4-1 over Kerry](http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-10-03-bush-troops_x.htm) > [@](#): > > In the survey of more than 4,000 full-time and part-time troops, 73% said they would vote for Bush if the election were held today; 18% said they would vote for Kerry. Of the respondents, 59% identified themselves as Republicans, 20% as independents and 13% as Democrats. Those were people actively serving in the military at the time of the election. By a ratio of 4-1 they picked the guy who sent the military into war over the other guy. > [@This Year's Model](#): > > Was this question asked of the military in general, or of those who served in Iraq? From the cite: > [@](#): > > From September 22 through October 5, Annenberg polled 655 adults who have either served on active duty between February and October or who were family members of those who served but were not available to be interviewed. Their answers were compared to the responses of 2,436 adults polled nationally from September 27 through October 3. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/325 "2005-08-17T03:24:58Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > > [@Sam Stone](#): > > > > Do you think the regular forces sent to Iraq were properly trained and equipped for service there? > > > > Active Duty: 67% yes, 17% no > > > > It’s an article of faith among the anti-war crowd that Bush sent the troops in with inadequate armor and supplies. But only 17% of the soldiers actually serving in the war agree. > > Was this question asked of the military in general, or of those who served in Iraq? > [@Sam Stone](#): > > From the cite: > > > [@](#): > > > > From September 22 through October 5, Annenberg polled 655 adults who have either served on active duty between February and October or who were family members of those who served but were not available to be interviewed. Their answers were compared to the responses of 2,436 adults polled nationally from September 27 through October 3. OK, so it was asked of active duty military who may or may not have served in Iraq at any point in time, and if they were not available, it was asked of family members who were definitely never in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/326 "2005-08-17T03:26:34Z")
> [@The Tooth](#): > > Naw, any dittohead can make claims on a message board then refuse to back them up. I hear ya! I’m still chuckling over the mindless libs who were _positive_ that Karl Rove was behind the forged CBS National Guard documents. They didn’t know how, exactly…but they knew it _had_ to be Rove’s fault! ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/327 "2005-08-17T03:36:01Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > OK, so it was asked of active duty military who may or may not have served in Iraq at any point in time, and if they were not available, it was asked of family members who were definitely never in Iraq. Yes, except that the family member’s answers were broken out from active duty personnel. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/328 "2005-08-17T03:58:05Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > In any event, it should be obvious to everyone that Bush is wildly popular among active-duty military. He gets wild cheers whenever he’s with them. I’d guess that he’s more popular within the military than any President since Reagan. It seems to me this wasn’t the case at his last televised speech, made at Fort Bragg. He didn’t get wild cheers when he was with them then. He got polite applause, apparently prompted by his own staff. Your second citation, the survey conducted and published by Army Times, is unscientific and specifically states that its sample underrepresents enlisted men: > [@](#): > > To conduct the survey, Military Times e-mailed more than 31,000 subscribers Sept. 15. They were invited to access an Internet site seeking their opinions on the presidential race and related issues. From Sept. 21 to 28, and before the first presidential debate on Sept. 30, a total of 2,754 active-duty and 1,411 reserve and Guard members took part. > > The nature of the survey led experts to caution against reading the results as representative of the military as a whole. > > Unlike most public opinion polls, the Military Times survey did not randomly select those to question. Instead, subscribers with e-mail addresses on file were sent an invitation. That means there is no statistical margin of error for the survey — so it’s impossible to calculate how accurately the results reflect the views of Military Times readers. > > The surveyed group is older, higher in rank and more career-oriented than the military as a whole. Junior enlisted troops in particular are underrepresented in the group that responded. [http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-383722.php](http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-383722.php) I don’t find the results of that poll especially surprising or informative, considering the nature of the sample. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/329 "2005-08-17T04:11:10Z")
**Scylla** , this is “the courage of our convictions” [17 Spanish troops die in air crash](http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,1550481,00.html?gusrc=rss) > [@](#): > > \*\*Seventeen Spanish soldiers on a peacekeeping mission were killed yesterday when their helicopter crashed in western Afghanistan. > > Spain’s defence ministry and the Nato-led international security assistance force in Afghanistan initially believed the crash was an accident. But in a press conference yesterday, José Bono, the defence minister, did not rule out an attack. > > \ > > The 17 dead troops were among the 850 Spanish troops stationed with the Nato force in Afghanistan\*\*. They died in the service of a just cause, one that Spain, along with most of the rest of the world, believes in – although I wish your nation hadn’t strayed so far off-course. Perhaps then Afghanistan would be in better shape than it is. Not to worry though, for as much or as little as our presence there might mean to you, those brave men didn’t die in vain. We won’t be leaving anytime soon. R.I.P. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/330 "2005-08-17T04:20:43Z")
**light strand** , Thank you. I’m glad to say he gives me all sorts of reasons to be proud. As for your Galician friend, it is indeed a small world. For while I never made out to Vigo, I visited other Galician cities often as my parents hail from the next province over, Asturias, where they kept a small summer cottage – not far from Oviedo, the capital – in my youth. Not a good day for Galicia though, as twelve of the seventeen dead soldiers were based in Pontevedra. Take care. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/331 "2005-08-17T04:26:10Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > I hear ya! I’m still chuckling over the mindless libs who were _positive_ that Karl Rove was behind the forged CBS National Guard documents. They didn’t know how, exactly…but they knew it _had_ to be Rove’s fault! When you’re done chuckling, maybe you’ll see fit to back up claims you’ve made. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/332 "2005-08-17T04:47:24Z")
> [@The Tooth](#): > > When you’re done chuckling, maybe you’ll see fit to back up claims you’ve made. Like…? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/333 "2005-08-17T05:32:51Z")
You must be joking. > [@Stephe96](#): > > You know, that’s another reason I tend to believe Michael Moore is behind this stunt. > [@Stephe96](#): > > I’d like to know who came up with idea of camping out at Bush’s ranch. That kind of tactic, along with exploiting grieving mothers for ratings and box-office, has Michael Moore’s fingerprints all over it. I suspect that some wacko Bush-hating group suggested the idea to her and has been supporting her financially all along. > [@Stephe96](#): > > Is it possible that Casey’s father doesn’t believe his son’s memory should be exploited by someone like Michael Moore? That last one is very subtle, so read slowly: it isn’t a direct claim, but the claim that the man’s son’s memory is being exploited is being made through implication. Get it? Im-pli-ca-tion. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/334 "2005-08-17T05:53:25Z")
> [@The Tooth](#): > > You must be joking. > That last one is very subtle, so read slowly: it isn’t a direct claim, but the claim that the man’s son’s memory is being exploited is being made through implication. Get it? Im-pli-ca-tion. The Tooth steps up the plate…here’s the pitch…swung on and missed! 1. You know, that’s another reason **I tend to believe** Michael Moore is behind this stunt. 2) **I suspect** that some wacko Bush-hating group suggested the idea to her and has been supporting her financially all along. 1. \*\*Is it possible \*\* that Casey’s father doesn’t believe his son’s memory should be exploited by someone like Michael Moore? Nothing even close to a “claim” made in those statements. Care to try again? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/335 "2005-08-17T05:57:29Z")
Admit it, **Stephe96,** the only reason for your Michael Moore fixation is because that idea got tooted by Rush Limbaugh last week… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/336 "2005-08-17T07:24:24Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > The Tooth steps up the plate…here’s the pitch…swung on and missed! > > 1. You know, that’s another reason **I tend to believe** Michael Moore is behind this stunt. > > 2) **I suspect** that some wacko Bush-hating group suggested the idea to her and has been supporting her financially all along. > > 1. \*\*Is it possible \*\* that Casey’s father doesn’t believe his son’s memory should be exploited by someone like Michael Moore? > > Nothing even close to a “claim” made in those statements. Care to try again? Not really. I tend to believe rational discussion is beyond the capabilities of some people, and I suspect you’re one of them. You just go on pretending your failure to back up your statements constitutes a swing and a miss on my part if it lets you believe the things you say make sense. Personally, I think a cat wandering across a keyboard could come up with a more cogent statement than “I suspect some wacko Bush-hating group suggested the idea to her and has been supporting her financially all along, but I’m not claiming this is so”, so you and your conspiracy theories will just have to get along without me. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/337 "2005-08-17T08:14:05Z")
> [@The Tooth](#): > > Not really. I tend to believe rational discussion is beyond the capabilities of some people, and I suspect you’re one of them. You just go on pretending your failure to back up your statements constitutes a swing and a miss on my part if it lets you believe the things you say make sense. > > Personally, I think a cat wandering across a keyboard could come up with a more cogent statement than “I suspect some wacko Bush-hating group suggested the idea to her and has been supporting her financially all along, but I’m not claiming this is so”, so you and your conspiracy theories will just have to get along without me. Uh huh. Sure. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/338 "2005-08-17T11:20:49Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Uh huh. Sure. what’s the deal lately w/ the lame ass responses??? 10 year olds could do better. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/339 "2005-08-17T11:28:54Z")
I _suspect_ that GW is a Stepford robot, totally controlled by Laura and her coven of lesbian Satanists. I mean, is there any actual proof that “Karl” Rove is a man? What with his Pillsbury Deathboy figure and soft, waxy features? Mind you, I’m not _claiming_ this… ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768/340 "2005-08-17T11:57:54Z")
> [@wring](#): > > what’s the deal lately w/ the lame ass responses??? 10 year olds could do better. I was thinking yesterday that **Stephe96** ’s style of argument is very reminiscent of my little sister’s (I have six, pick one) when we were kids. He/She never argues any point for longer than two posts, the points he/she does attempt to make are weasly insinuations issued with plausible deniability, his/her rebuttal style is basically “na, na, I can’t hear you!”, and any evidence shown is completely ignored. Of course, my little sisters have a brain (actually, a number of brains - one each, except maybe… no, we won’t go there), so they grew out of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-cheer-the-right-wing-smear-machine/316768.md?page=18)