# Let's come up with a new term now that "dive bar" is completely meaningless **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 10, 2014, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232 "2014-08-10T12:49:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/41 "2014-08-10T18:56:24Z")
Come to think of it, a “two-seater” might be more lady like. Though I don’t know about trying to make it more classy; I’ve been in some where even the men wouldn’t use the Men’s room. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/42 "2014-08-10T19:22:27Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > “Tavern” usually describes it pretty well. I think “taverne” has an implication in Quebec (“bienvenue aux dames”) that “tavern” doesn’t necessarily have in the rest of North America. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/43 "2014-08-10T19:29:10Z")
In my opinion, it’s the jukebox that makes a dive. I mean, yeah, cheap booze or what’s the point?, but a real dive has a jukebox that hasn’t been updated for forty years (or about the last time they cleaned the bathrooms). Anything later than John Bonham and it’s just a Yuppie poseur bar. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/44 "2014-08-10T19:47:56Z")
:beard stroking emoticon: I don’t think dive bars have to be sad or even a dump, even though the dump factor is often high. I also like “shot and a beer” bar and the idea of the moment someone drops the “d” word clarifying, “Oh really? A dive, or a REAL dive?” That should get the point across. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/45 "2014-08-10T20:28:59Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > [Look, they’re prefabricated and modular](http://www.irishpubcompany.com/)! What could be more authentic than that? I’m sure somewhere someone is working on how to get staged fistfights included in the package. And how to make the fried fish extra greasy and the corned beef extra gristly. Oh well, at age 53 I don’t really mind so much the gentrified bars… except for the mass influx of hipsters making it difficult to find a seat or place my order. Recently I was at a meeting in Baltimore and they took us to a “trendy” locale for the after-dinner event. Looking about I told my companions: “when I used to live in this city, there weren’t bars like this in this part of town. You’d be getting robbed on the walk from the bus stop, not on the bar tab.” ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/46 "2014-08-10T20:32:46Z")
Keep the term, but inquire whether the establishment is a hipster dive, a yuppie dive or the other kind. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/47 "2014-08-10T20:35:44Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > In my opinion, it’s the jukebox that makes a dive. I mean, yeah, cheap booze or what’s the point?, but a real dive has a jukebox that hasn’t been updated for forty years (or about the last time they cleaned the bathrooms). Anything later than John Bonham and it’s just a Yuppie poseur bar. Today, though, jukeboxes are usually connected to the Internet and give you access to thousands of songs. Which is great, of course, but the downside is that you’re no longer surprised by such gratifying discoveries as finding they have _Thrak_ by King Crimson in there, because one of the regulars asked for it. This actually happened at a place I once frequented, and the fact that the customer in question was on the wagon didn’t make any difference as to how he was treated by the staff. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/48 "2014-08-10T20:41:03Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > I want a dark bar with cheap booze and no kids where the bartender talks to you because he likes you. I know a whoopee spot where the gin is cold but the piano’s hot! It’s just a noisy hall where there’s a nightly brawl And all that jazz ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/49 "2014-08-10T20:46:21Z")
If we are going by characteristics, duct-tape over the slashes in the seats, is a universal of good dive-bars(that aren’t all wood seating of course.) ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/50 "2014-08-10T20:53:05Z")
> [@Reno\_Nevada](#): > > I know a whoopee spot where the gin is cold but the piano’s hot! It’s just a noisy hall where there’s a nightly brawl > > And all that jazz Hush. Bars like that exist; I just don’t know what to call them anymore. Some good suggestions here. I’m going to retire the term “dive” since it doesn’t seem to mean much. God, all this talk makes me want to go to the shot and a beer place around the corner. Trying that one out… it works. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/51 "2014-08-10T20:56:07Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Today, though, jukeboxes are usually connected to the Internet and give you access to thousands of songs. Which is great, of course, but the downside is that you’re no longer surprised by such gratifying discoveries as finding they have _Thrak_ by King Crimson in there, because one of the regulars asked for it. > > This actually happened at a place I once frequented, and the fact that the customer in question was on the wagon didn’t make any difference as to how he was treated by the staff. Yeah. If the jukebox has an internet connection, that bar is automatically disqualified from calling itself a dive. MOL - I agree that a dive doesn’t _have_ to be a dump, but it’s probably not the place where the health inspectors hang after work. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/52 "2014-08-10T20:57:11Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > . Dives are the kinds of places young people might happen upon, give the crowd the once over, and decide to go somewhere else. Baaaack when I was young, a friend and I set out to discover the night life of Salt Lake. I had grown up Mormon, so I’d never really drank, but was just starting to. Not knowing anything, we grabbed some names from the Yellow Pages, and proceeded to discover how little our then still mainly Mormon city had in way of exciting clubs. After three or four misses, we walked into a bar. There were six to eight “old men” – probably younger than me now, quietly drinkin’. We just laughed and turned around. One of the “old” guys, maybe 45 or 50, said something like “laugh now, you’ll be us before you know it.” Can’t drink any more. But if I could, it would be at an old men’s bar. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/53 "2014-08-10T21:27:02Z")
> [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > The couple times I’ve had to qualify “dive bar” to someone, my second phrase is “beer and a shot place.” I think the phrase “no blender” has also come up. Or if they have a blender, they have to find it and wash it first. My go and play music definition of a dive bar is one where they had chicken wire in front of the stage so the beer bottles wouldn’t hit us during a set … :smack: [URL=“[http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/](http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/)”] ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/54 "2014-08-11T00:34:52Z")
I think that the word ‘dive’ has been more compromised than the OP even knows. Back in the day, a dive was a shithole where sleazy people hung out, not the old retirees. Dictionary dot com concurs. A dive, in the older sense, 1980s and before, was a place where Sam Spade and Philip Marlowe wouldn’t take a respectable lady-just dames. ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/55 "2014-08-11T13:44:38Z")
Shot ana beer joint has a good flow. There used to be a lot of dive bars near the auto plants in Michigan. People from all shifts hitting them before and after work. I’ve heard the term Workin’ Man’s Bar applied to them. No windows, weird food (pickled eggs, pickled bologna, various meat sticks), simple menu, and brands of liquor that only the homeless are familiar with. A friend of mine travels a lot for work. When he’s in a strange city and looking for a drink, he’ll post on Facebook “Can anyone recommend a good bar with no flat screen TVs?” ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/56 "2014-08-11T15:25:13Z")
In his [Houston’s Best Dive Bars: Drinking and Diving in the Bayou City](http://www.amazon.com/Houstons-Best-Dive-Bars-Drinking/dp/1935439162), John Nova Lomax devised a rating system–1 bottle to 5. The 1 Bottle Dives were unpretentious but rather tame; the 5 Bottle Dives could get scary. (He chose to omit a few really dangerous places.) The book came out a few years ago & some places have closed or changed. This was before “artisanal” cocktails came in, but they won’t be found in today’s dives. You might get a few cans or bottles of local “craft” beers–but no bank of 3 dozen taps. The Lone Star Saloon, on the cover, is still in business. And I can verify that it is, indeed, still a dive… ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/57 "2014-08-11T16:43:02Z")
> [@Becky2844](#): > > How about a “two-holer?” A Men’s and a Women’s restroom, only one toilet per. And you could mention no-craft draft. I don’t think that would work over here. The term is already used but means something else. Although you _would_ find a two-holer in a dive bar, come to think of it. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/58 "2014-08-11T23:06:59Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > I think that the word ‘dive’ has been more compromised than the OP even knows. Back in the day, a dive was a shithole where sleazy people hung out, not the old retirees. > Dictionary dot com concurs… The more I think about it, the more I agree with this post. Historically, any place that you would call a “dive” would be a place that you would want to avoid at all costs. So even in the OP’s use of the term, meaning someplace pleasant but without pretension, it is a misuse of the actual definition. It’s a self-deprecating exaggeration. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/59 "2014-08-12T03:06:08Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > I think that the word ‘dive’ has been more compromised than the OP even knows. Back in the day, a dive was a shithole where sleazy people hung out, not the old retirees. > Dictionary dot com concurs. > > A dive, in the older sense, 1980s and before, was a place where Sam Spade and Philip Marlowe wouldn’t take a respectable lady-just dames. > [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > The more I think about it, the more I agree with this post. Historically, any place that you would call a “dive” would be a place that you would want to avoid at all costs. So even in the OP’s use of the term, meaning someplace pleasant but without pretension, it is a misuse of the actual definition. It’s a self-deprecating exaggeration. I agree. As an undergrad in West Texas, there was a real dive bar about a mile from campus. I think every town has at least one of these, or at least every town in Texas. Used to hang out there myself but the main regulars were the flotsam and jetsam of humanity – old and broken down and stuck in that town because that’s where they happened to be when their money ran out. I still recall an ancient regular named Walter. Everyone sort of took care of Walter. He was in the hospital, and although I’d be surprised if he’d managed an erection in 40 years, the skanky semi-pro prostitutes who also hung out in the bar would go visit him. That was a real dive bar. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232/60 "2014-08-12T03:09:23Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > The more I think about it, the more I agree with this post. Historically, any place that you would call a “dive” would be a place that you would want to avoid at all costs. So even in the OP’s use of the term, meaning someplace pleasant but without pretension, it is a misuse of the actual definition. It’s a self-deprecating exaggeration. I don’t read the OP’s post that way. When I define “dive,” I think of a place that is a bit run-down, doesn’t have much in the way of variety of drinks, and if you’re not a “regular,” you’ll probably get a few raised eyebrows or inquiries about who in the hell you are. Not quite needle-scratch-music-stops type suspicion, but not too far off that, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-come-up-with-a-new-term-now-that-dive-bar-is-completely-meaningless/695232.md?page=4)