# Let's compare Operation Barbarossa to the Migrant Caravan. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2018, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770 "2018-10-31T04:45:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770/141 "2018-11-11T21:28:01Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But they _will_ care about it when the caravan arrives, right? Fancy a wager, guv? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770/142 "2018-11-11T21:34:32Z")
Here’s a link that includes a picture of that border crossing from December 2012. [Long Lines at San Ysidro Border Crossing](https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2012/dec/15/stringers-long-lines-san-ysidro-border-/#) When the caravan arrives, it will barely be a blip on the radar. [Here’s what the automobile crossing looks like on a typical day.](https://aerialarchives.photoshelter.com/image/I0000gU4ac0aDWL0) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770/143 "2018-11-11T21:42:15Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Fancy a wager, guv? On what? From what I’ve read here, the Fox News coverage was ‘crazy heavy’ just before the election, and now the coverage has dropped to ‘nary a hint of’. So do I win if, upon arrival, the coverage goes up from ‘nary’? Or do _you_ have a solid case that you’ve won, so long as it doesn’t ratchet all the way up to ‘crazy heavy’? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770/144 "2018-11-12T04:01:22Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > If we had a normal administration, I would agree. I disagree, actually. I can’t stand the air Trump breathes but if a large group preemptively gathered together thousands of miles away to enter the United States under asylum it would be a political drama that doesn’t play out well collectively for the refugees. It’s good for no one but American xenophobes. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770/145 "2018-11-12T04:24:02Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But they _will_ care about it when the caravan arrives, right? And so, even if they’re wrong, it’ll make sense for them to be up in arms about it then; and, even if they’re wrong, I’d figure it makes sense for them to be up in arms about it when deciding who to elect to office, if those elected officials will be making decisions about how to react when one caravan or another arrives. They might pretend to care about it. But, probably not. The way that they are playing their supporters for fools by not even pretending to care starting the day after election day, it seems that the Republican party doesn’t think enough of their constituency to even bother with the charade. Again, when the leader of the Republican party brags that Republicans will support him even if he murders someone in broad daylight, and the supporters actually take that as a complement, then apparently they don’t expect a whole hell of a lot from those supporters, and the supporters won’t require them to even pretend to give a damn about the caravan that they pretended to give a damn about yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770/146 "2018-11-12T06:05:44Z")
Well, who knows? Hearing a lot lately about Chinese economic aggression, floating “development” to the impoverished. Maybe they will do something for the wretched teemers of Nicaragua, Guatemala, _et. al_. Maybe someone else. Sure as Hell ain’t gonna be us. Outa thoughts and prayers, too. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770/147 "2018-11-12T19:08:30Z")
It seems the new story is the caravan of Democrats, marching towards the House in spite of the Kavanaugh effect, seeking asylum for the Mueller investigation. When they arrive in January, they will be back in the Trump supporters’ minds as The Source of All Your Problems. I am pretty convinced that the GOP message simply Cannot work without someone to focus the blame on for all those angsty, losery feelings. With the Dems out of power they have had to stretch, blaming the Deep State or the ‘invasion’ of desperate asylum seekers, those huddled masses yearning to rape as the leader of the GOP sees it. Or George Soros, or- I haven’t paid too much attention to RW media, so forgive me if I am not up on the latest conspiracy. But look. It all gets so much easier next year. Just name a problem, any problem at all in America. Who is the source of it? Nancy Pelosi! See how easy that is? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770/148 "2018-11-13T00:21:53Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > No. They won’t. > > By the time the caravan gets to Tijuana it will be a few hundred malnourished people begging for help. It will be a couple days that are slightly busier than normal at the US port of entry near Tijuana. It will barely register. Has anyone told the Army of Southern Texas that the enemy is conducting a flanking movement to their west? Poor grunts are going to miss Thanksgiving with family for a battle that never happened. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770/149 "2018-11-13T02:46:02Z")
[Deployed Inside the United States: The Military Waits for the Migrant Caravan](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/10/us/deployed-inside-the-united-states-the-military-waits-for-the-migrant-caravan.html) > [@](#): > > Two thousand miles away, at the Pentagon, officials privately derided the deployment as an expensive waste of time and resources, and a morale killer to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770/150 "2018-11-13T03:27:02Z")
Troops deployed to U.S.-Mexico border lack hot food, electricity > **[Troops deployed to U.S.-Mexico border lack hot food, electricity](https://www.axios.com/2018/11/11/american-troops-deployed-border-migrant-caravan)** > > The cost for 15,000 troops at the border could hit $200 million. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770/151 "2018-11-13T04:55:55Z")
Eating MREs every meal while there’s a Whataburger in sight is beyond bad for morale, it’s borderline cruel and unusual punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770/152 "2018-11-14T20:33:38Z")
[A Week After the Midterms, Trump Seems to Forget the Caravan](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/13/us/politics/trump-caravan-midterms.html) > [@](#): > > “I’ve never before seen an American president, after going all over the country about this national crisis, then the day after an election shrug,” said Douglas Brinkley, a presidential historian at Rice University. It was a get out the vote effort plain and simple. You got played immigration hardliners. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770/153 "2018-11-14T21:16:50Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > [Deployed Inside the United States: The Military Waits for the Migrant Caravan](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/10/us/deployed-inside-the-united-states-the-military-waits-for-the-migrant-caravan.html) I’m really hoping that the USO will be able to do that whole “Thanksgiving dinner for the deployed troops” thing – bringing in roasted turkey, mashed potatoes, stuffing, cranberry sauce, and so on, for these troops not with their families during the holiday. From what I read in that article, the logistical challenge may involve the USO driving distance of ten to twenty miles to make this miracle happen. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770/154 "2018-11-14T23:31:29Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m really hoping that the USO will be able to do that whole “Thanksgiving dinner for the deployed troops” thing That’s a military provided thing not a USO program. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770/155 "2018-11-15T02:06:51Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > That’s a military provided thing not a USO program. I’m sure the DFACs serve the traditional dinner but I was referring to these types of events: > **[How the USO Served Thanksgiving Dinner to Troops Around the World](https://www.uso.org/stories/1538-how-the-uso-served-thanksgiving-dinner-to-troops-around-the-world)** ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770/156 "2018-11-15T18:09:32Z")
[Part of the migrant caravan has arrived. Here’s what you need to know.](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/11/13/migrant-caravan-border-tijuana-what-you-need-know/1988938002/) > [@](#): > > Riding on nine buses, the group rolled into Tijuana, where members are expected to unload, rest and then get in line to request asylum. Invasion!!! Keep in mind this is at the San Ysidro port of entry. 2015 Cars: 14,435,252 2015 Pedestrians: 7,056,022 Thank goodness the military is there to help them with the extra 350 people. Wait… what? The military is in Donna, Texas you say? That makes it seem more like they’re there for show than to actually help out with the caravan, but that can’t be true. ---
**Author:** ![etasyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9f8e36/32.png) [@etasyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etasyde)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770/157 "2018-11-15T18:14:57Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Uh… The argument, as far as I’ve understood it here, goes something like this: > > “Operation Barbarossa was an invasion. The migrant caravan is smaller in scope than Operation Barbarossa. Therefore the migrant caravan isn’t an invasion.” > > Seems like a really bad argument; have I misunderstood something? (Yes, obviously it’s not an invasion, but this is still a silly argument.) The argument _is_ poorly expressed, but I’m pretty sure you got it backwards. "Words have definitions with specific meanings and limited scope (that is, “ant” does not describe “octopi”). ‘Invasion’ is such a word. Operation Barbarossa was a well documented, universally accepted ‘invasion.’ THEREFORE, if The Caravan is also an invasion, it must share properties with Operation Barbarossa. What properties does it share?" Or, tldr: `using an example from history, how does Trumps "invasion" compare to *actual* invasions` ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770/158 "2018-11-15T18:28:59Z")
Wasn’t Operation Barbarossa that time when 350 Germans lined up to politely ask to legally enter the Soviet Union? I’m not 100% up to speed on WWII history, but if my recollection is basically correct, then the caravan is exactly like Operation Barbarossa. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770/159 "2018-11-15T19:48:39Z")
You left out the line that was destined to become an instant classic: " Please, sirs, we’d like some more lebensraum!" [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-compare-operation-barbarossa-to-the-migrant-caravan/823770.md?page=7)