# Let's Debate Afghanistan In The Pit. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812 "2010-07-15T18:44:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/221 "2010-08-08T01:37:34Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@adhay](#): > > > > So, I’m moving on and will make it a point never again endeavor to teach him to dance, no matter where he shows up. > > I have said that Afghanistan is about Osama and flying planes into building in New York. You have said it is about building pipelines. I can prove that people flew planes into buildings in New York, that there were a whole lot of politicians talking about Osama, the Taliban, and going into Afghanistan to get him. Can you prove that there is a pipeline, that Unocal, or any other American company is building it, or that it had anything to do with invading Afghanistan? No, you can’t. Sorry, you lose. > > And the reason you can’t teach a pig to dance is because you’re the pig. You have no idea how to dance and are actually attempting to sing. So, put up some actual proof, not vague allegations and wackjob conspiracy theories, or shut the hell up. The Towers were nearly a decade ago. If Osama is still alive ,he is in Pakistan. Al Qeada is not in Afghanistan. We killed a bunch of civilians today. What did they have to do with 911? Years ago there was a scintilla of evidence that Afghanistan had something to do with 911. But that is long ago and that justification has died of old age. If you justify a war in Afghanistan so facilely ,then you can be convinced Pakistan has to be next. We can go to war forever if you buy that stuff. But Pakistan has nukes. That won’t slow down a revenge seeker like you ,I am sure. I am old fashioned. i believe you negotiate with countries. You don’t just blow the shit out of them because some people in the country pissed you off. They would be happy to talk to American diplomats. they offered to turn Osama over to a neutral country for a trial a couple times in the beginning. Bush refused. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/222 "2010-08-08T02:49:47Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > If you justify a war in Afghanistan so facilely ,then you can be convinced Pakistan has to be next. We can go to war forever if you buy that stuff. But Pakistan has nukes. That won’t slow down a revenge seeker like you ,I am sure. Where do you get this stuff? I don’t think we should be in Afghanistan because we are not willing to sort out the corruption or educate and make safe the populace. But, I am not stupid like some others here to think we went there for any other reason than because of the attack in New York. If that didn’t happen, then it is very unlikely we would be there now. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/223 "2010-08-08T14:44:01Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@gonzomax](#): > > > > If you justify a war in Afghanistan so facilely ,then you can be convinced Pakistan has to be next. We can go to war forever if you buy that stuff. But Pakistan has nukes. That won’t slow down a revenge seeker like you ,I am sure. > > Where do you get this stuff? I don’t think we should be in Afghanistan because we are not willing to sort out the corruption or educate and make safe the populace. But, I am not stupid like some others here to think we went there for any other reason than because of the attack in New York. If that didn’t happen, then it is very unlikely we would be there now. Pakistan is where Osama Ben Laden is supposed to be. Therefore we have to get him for his involvement in 911. Borders apparently mean nothing to your seeking revenge. ---
**Author:** ![Frustrated\_Wonderer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a4c791/32.png) [@Frustrated\_Wonderer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frustrated_Wonderer)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/224 "2010-08-08T15:26:52Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/pV7UYj-4mTE/hqdefault.jpg "Noam Chomsky versus young conservative") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV7UYj-4mTE) Having stated the video is somewhat dated, the core of the argument remains. We should get out and we should have never been involved in this war in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/225 "2010-08-08T17:37:40Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Borders apparently mean nothing to your seeking revenge. Borders should mean nothing when you are seeking someone who destroyed billions of dollars of assets and thousands of lives. Are you saying that if the killer of your wife lives 30’ away across an artificial line drawn on a piece of paper, you’re not going to do anything about it? Sad excuse for a human being you are, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/226 "2010-08-08T18:29:50Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@gonzomax](#): > > > > Borders apparently mean nothing to your seeking revenge. > > Borders should mean nothing when you are seeking someone who destroyed billions of dollars of assets and thousands of lives. Are you saying that if the killer of your wife lives 30’ away across an artificial line drawn on a piece of paper, you’re not going to do anything about it? Sad excuse for a human being you are, it seems. Arguments like that are childish. You should be ashamed to offer such a piece of crap in a discussion. It is next to the " did you stop beating your wife ". Apparently you are even younger and more immature than i thought. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/227 "2010-08-08T20:09:42Z")
So, you would let some artificially created border stop you from bringing your wife’s killer to justice. Got it. Would you wave ‘hello’ to the killer a stone’s throw away when you saw him, too? ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/228 "2010-08-08T22:06:52Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > > [@adhay](#): > > > > Yeah, sure. > > > > But if you would PM me your local gps reading, I can do something for you or to you. Your choice. > > > > ETA Arrrrggh! > > I’m at 48°17’42.8"N,89°23’21.2"W , but we paddle out of Pier 1 at the marina downtown. It’s the yellow forty-footer. > > We bring snacks on our excursions, so welcome aboard. Fuck you very much. I’m on my way to Google Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/229 "2010-08-08T22:18:07Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@gonzomax](#): > > > > Borders apparently mean nothing to your seeking revenge. > > Borders should mean nothing when you are seeking someone who destroyed billions of dollars of assets and thousands of lives. Which might mean something if we had actually been interested in getting Bin Laden, but we weren’t and didn’t seriously try. So both of you are wrong; revenge would actually have been a moral step up for our motivations. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/230 "2010-08-08T23:21:51Z")
I hitchhiked thru Thunder Bay in '84. New Hampshire thru Montreal thru Calgary thru Radium Salt Springs thru Trail (pure Mordor at the time) thru Salt Spring Isle to Seattle. Thunder Bay left me curious about canucks. Do they always say eh? Eh? I’m thinking in about two weeks. A day or two, a week, whatever. Although I must pitch this to the bitch (soon to arrive) with the wheels, I expect her to embrace the plan w/o arg. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/231 "2010-08-08T23:42:20Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > So, you would let some artificially created border stop you from bringing your wife’s killer to justice. Got it. Would you wave ‘hello’ to the killer a stone’s throw away when you saw him, too? I don’t recall my wife getting killed . It does not compute. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/232 "2010-08-09T00:35:36Z")
Ah, so long as it isn’t your wife then screw the other guy who wants justice, revenge, what have you, right? > [@](#): > > Which might mean something if we had actually been interested in getting Bin Laden, but we weren’t and didn’t seriously try. And if my opposition in this thread had been arguing that, I’d have to agree with them. We didn’t try hard enough because if we had we’d have succeeded by now. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/233 "2010-08-09T00:40:05Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Ah, so long as it isn’t your wife then screw the other guy who wants justice, revenge, what have you, right? > > > [@](#): > > > > Which might mean something if we had actually been interested in getting Bin Laden, but we weren’t and didn’t seriously try. > > And if my opposition in this thread had been arguing that, I’d have to agree with them. We didn’t try hard enough because if we had we’d have succeeded by now. My condolences then. I did not know your wife was in the towers. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/234 "2010-08-09T01:24:05Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > My condolences then. I did not know your wife was in the towers. So, only if my wife was in the towers could I feel empathy with other victims? You really are a piece of work. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/235 "2010-08-09T07:37:40Z")
This little incident speaks reams about the Taliban-these people (5 Americans, 2 Britons, a German, two Aghanis) were killed because they were in posession of a bible (in a local language). They had been giving free medical care to the local people-I guess that is a crime under sharia law? What does the “religion of peace” have to say about this? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/236 "2010-08-09T16:32:10Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@gonzomax](#): > > > > My condolences then. I did not know your wife was in the towers. > > So, only if my wife was in the towers could I feel empathy with other victims? You really are a piece of work. Empathy. i feel for innocent Afghanis who are getting blown away. I feel for fathers losing their children to American bombs. I feel for people whose infrastructure is being bombed every day. I feel for people who can not determine their own government. I feel for children with limbs blown off and a life with no hope. Many of these kids were not even born when the towers went down. The people getting bombed every day had absolutely nothing to do with 911. Enjoy your revenge, but don’t expect them to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/237 "2010-08-09T16:56:59Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Empathy. i feel for innocent Afghanis who are getting blown away. [Woman killed for adultery](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1301487/Taliban-execute-Afghan-widow-accused-adultery.html) That is what your friends, the Taliban, are all about. > [@](#): > > I feel for fathers losing their children to American bombs. Who are killed because the Taliban keep fighting. > [@](#): > > I feel for people whose infrastructure is being bombed every day. By the Taliban. I’m pretty sure that anyone else isn’t much interested in destroying bridges at this point. > [@](#): > > I feel for people who can not determine their own government. You mean they didn’t get to vote for the Taliban who do things like in the link above? Nope, they don’t get to vote for such thugs. But they get to vote for anyone else. Kind of like how Karzai was elected. Sucks to be them, but when you harbor terrorists you tend to lose some of your choices until you prove you can use them responsibly. Rightly so. > [@](#): > > I feel for children with limbs blown off and a life with no hope. That’s what happens when their parents support the Taliban and terrorists. They hide among you and then blame their enemy when you get hurt rather than themselves for continual fighting instead of trying to help the rebuilding effort. > [@](#): > > Many of these kids were not even born when the towers went down. The people getting bombed every day had absolutely nothing to do with 911. I wonder if that women, the alleged adulterer, had anything to do with 9-11? But she wasn’t your wife, so it doesn’t matter, right? > [@](#): > > Enjoy your revenge, but don’t expect them to understand. They don’t need to. They just need to ensure that it doesn’t happen again. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/238 "2010-08-09T17:25:29Z")
The Taliban is responsible for 911? In what alternate universe. Saudis financed it. Saudis were 14 out of 19,on the crafts. It was planned in Hamburg Germany and Montreal Canada. American companies taught them to fly, in Florida and California. You don’t seem to understand that warring against the middle east will result in more enemies. Or do you believe if an Afghanis family is wiped out the witnesses will think"they deserved it for being in Afghanistan". You are not ending hatred of America by killing lots of people. You are doing the opposite. But for you, revenge tastes sweet. If that please you ,good. I am glad someone gets something out of wars besides money and a concentration of power. I do not. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/239 "2010-08-09T17:39:32Z")
If you believe you are entitled to your revenge, I am sure in fair play, you would not deny the Afghanis theirs. A lot of Afghanis families have been killed even though they had absolutely nothing to do with 911. Their families have been killed. Like you, they are entitled to their revenge. It is only right that they attack America because we killed their people. Perhaps you should send them plane fare. They will be doing what they should to pay back for having their families killed. You somehow justify revenge ,so I am sure you would not reject their right to it too. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/240 "2010-08-09T18:40:14Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The Taliban is responsible for 911? Unbelievably stupid. Who had Osama and wouldn’t give him up after 9-11? I’m sure you can figure that one out. You talk about revenge as if trying to catch the person responsible is a bad thing. You think that letting people kill women for adultery is a good thing, or something that isn’t your business as long as it is across an imaginary line on a map. If I do something bad, can I have you on my jury? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812.md?page=13)