# Let's Debate Afghanistan In The Pit. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812 "2010-07-15T18:44:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/261 "2010-08-12T23:55:23Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > They don’t share your values and don’t think like you do. Yes, I would never think of stoning someone to death or killing a family member because my ‘honor’ has been slighted. Nor would I destroy artifacts because it offends my religion. In your world all cultures are equal. > [@](#): > > Yet somehow you think we are acting from a higher moral plane? I’m not saying we are. I’m saying we should be. But to equate us and the Taliban is stupid. You are like the 3 clerics I saw on Saudi television who were claiming that the 911 attack was revenge because of the attack on Afghanistan… ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/262 "2010-08-13T01:31:33Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@gonzomax](#): > > > > They don’t share your values and don’t think like you do. > > Yes, I would never think of stoning someone to death or killing a family member because my ‘honor’ has been slighted. Nor would I destroy artifacts because it offends my religion. In your world all cultures are equal. > > > [@](#): > > > > Yet somehow you think we are acting from a higher moral plane? > > I’m not saying we are. I’m saying we should be. But to equate us and the Taliban is stupid. You are like the 3 clerics I saw on Saudi television who were claiming that the 911 attack was revenge because of the attack on Afghanistan… So you think our activities in the Middle East have nothing to do with 911? Ben Laden says otherwise. He finds the American influence in Saudi Arabia despicable and says that is one or the reasons he fights. I guess it is their fault their country happens to be where our oil is. Your religion kills doctors who provide desperate women with abortions. Your religion is in the streets demanding we become a religious country. Sharon Angle says the health care is against the first commandment. Yep, we are different because you believe it. It must be all the evidence that is wrong. Ever hear of the Crusades? Ever hear of the conquistadors ? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/263 "2010-08-13T01:59:46Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > He finds the American influence in Saudi Arabia despicable and says that is one or the reasons he fights. I guess it is their fault their country happens to be where our oil is. Ever heard of Saudi Aramco? The government controls all the oil in Saudi Arabia, not the Americans. > [@](#): > > Your religion is in the streets demanding we become a religious country. I’m an atheist, tard. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/264 "2010-08-13T17:06:45Z")
You do stick to your little guns kiddie. If you believe oil companies are out of Saudi Arabia, then you are not aware of the 1984 Texaco purchase of Gettys Saudi Concessions. Then you don’t know about a 2001 US Saudi 25 billion dollar contract natural gas deal. OK .Then Star Enterprises a Texaco /Saudi Aramco venture would also be unknown to you. But now you are down to name calling. I knew you would get there because your immaturity has been showing all along. You should get religion. It would do you some good. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/265 "2010-08-13T18:14:58Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > You do stick to your little guns kiddie. If you believe oil companies are out of Saudi Arabia, then you are not aware of the 1984 Texaco purchase of Gettys Saudi Concessions. Then you don’t know about a 2001 US Saudi 25 billion dollar contract natural gas deal. OK .Then Star Enterprises a Texaco /Saudi Aramco venture would also be unknown to you. But now you are down to name calling. I knew you would get there because your immaturity has been showing all along. Texaco gained the Saudi Oil concession from Getty because it purchased Getty! And Chevron got it from Texaco because it purchased Texaco [link](http://www.arabianbusiness.com/524793-upd-1-saudi-approves-chevron-oil-concession-extension). It was the only oil concession to survive the nationalization of the oil industry in Saudi. Star Enterprises was created between Texaco and Aramco to purchase facilities and refine petroleum in the US, not Saudi Arabia. Does Aramco enter into joint ventures with other oil companies? Of course they do. They do it with American companies and others. Unless you think Total is a good American, company that is. [Link](http://archive.arabnews.com/?page=6§ion=0&article=82571&d=22&m=5&y=2006) Instead of just selling the oil to companies like Total so they can refine it at their own facilities somewhere else in the world, Aramco is building those refineries in Saudi. Aramco and Saudi benefit because they get sell a refined product. It is like selling a wooden cabinet rather than just the log. You gain all the beneficial economic activity that surrounds making the cabinet. Notice how they want to take control of all aspects of oil from production to refinement? Rather smart of them, don’t you thing? Wait..Why am I asking you? And if Afghanistan wants its resources to be developed successfully, it should enter into joint agreements with companies and have as part of those agreements certain conditions on investment in Afghanistan and its people eg. purchase from local suppliers if at all possible, a large percentage of the workforce must be nationals and they should be trained to assume senior roles in agreed timelines, etc. > [@](#): > > You should get religion. It would do you some good. OMG. First you say rant about my religion and when you find out that boat doesn’t float, you are saying I should get some.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/266 "2010-08-13T19:19:51Z")
[Petraeus Hedges On July 2011 Afghan Pullback, NYT Airs Skepticism Over War | HuffPost The World Post](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/13/petraeus-hedges-on-july-2_n_681346.html) Just in the NYT is bailing on the war. Newspapers are war cheerleaders . For them to see the folly is giving me hope. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/267 "2010-08-14T15:43:53Z")
[Why Petraeus Can't Make The Sale | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/14/why-petraeus-cant-make-th_n_681733.html) Patreus is having troubles rallying the home front. It is clear that we are wasting money and the war does not serve Americas interests. But unloadiong all the soldiers would hurt the unemployment numbers badly. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/268 "2010-08-16T19:22:57Z")
Gonzo, since no amount of evidence to the contrary or opinions which are against yours in relation to this, what the hell are you getting out of this? Is there any point in debating with you? It’s just a circular argument, and hell, you don’t even back up assertions anymore, you’re just spouting slogans over and over as if that’ll do the trick if your arguments don’t hold water, plus it’s getting boring ‘debating’ with you. Ironically this ‘debate’ is becoming as mired as much as the war supposedly is in Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/269 "2010-08-16T20:08:50Z")
Couple stoned to death in Afghanistan by the Taliban. [Link](http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20100816/taliban-stoning-100816/) And people want to negotiate with these savages.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/270 "2010-08-16T21:14:02Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > > [@adhay](#): > > > > ‘Incompetence’ or ‘misinformation’ is the bullshit govt excuse for corporate corruption every fucking time. (Bush was “misinformed” about WMDs.:p) When they get caught, the incompetent get a “nice try” and the corp get’s a slap on the wrist every time. If those corrupt Iraqi’s made off with $1.5 g, what do you think GE took away? > > > > **Uzi** , you are either an idiot or a troll. Since we don’t allow trolls here, … . > > > [@Uzi](#): > > > > . …Stop being so paranoid and thinking everyone is evil who, A: is in government, and B: works for a corporation. Stop attributing to malice what can be easily attributed to incompetence. > > Do you actually dress yourself? > > Still waiting for your response to Gen Butler [Smedley Butler - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler) > [@Uzi](#): > > Couple stoned to death in Afghanistan by the Taliban. [Link](http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20100816/taliban-stoning-100816/) > > And people want to negotiate with these savages.:rolleyes: I’d rather negotiate with OBL than BO. Then, of course, I’d rather negotiate with Chavez and Castro as opposed to Uribe and Karzai. But that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/271 "2010-08-16T21:18:27Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > > [@adhay](#): > > > > Do you actually dress yourself? > > > > Still waiting for your response to Gen Butler [Smedley Butler - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler) > > > [@Uzi](#): > > > > Couple stoned to death in Afghanistan by the Taliban. [Link](http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20100816/taliban-stoning-100816/) > > > > And people want to negotiate with these savages.:rolleyes: > > I’d rather negotiate with OBL than BO. Then, of course, I’d rather negotiate with Chavez and Castro as opposed to Uribe and Karzai. But that’s just me. Well you’re a complete idiot then. And trust me on this, it’s not just me saying it. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/272 "2010-08-16T21:22:41Z")
I’ll take your word for it. No pile ons, please. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/273 "2010-08-17T08:50:23Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > > [@adhay](#): > > > > Do you actually dress yourself? > > > > Still waiting for your response to Gen Butler [Smedley Butler - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler) > > > [@Uzi](#): > > > > Couple stoned to death in Afghanistan by the Taliban. [Link](http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20100816/taliban-stoning-100816/) > > > > And people want to negotiate with these savages.:rolleyes: > > I’d rather negotiate with OBL than BO. Then, of course, I’d rather negotiate with Chavez and Castro as opposed to Uribe and Karzai. But that’s just me. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh fucking hell, you are dumber than most people could ever aspire to be. Your idiocy is a shining beacon that decreases everyone else in the vicinity to the level of a mentally impaired root vegetable. Your IQ is so far over into negative values that mathematicians would need to create an entirely new system just to compute it. You. Are. A. Fucking. Idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/274 "2010-08-17T17:18:59Z")
I think this thread has now outdone itself in terms of stupidity, does it need to go on any further? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/275 "2010-08-17T17:53:31Z")
Nope, once **adhay** finally confirmed that he’s a permanent patient at a hospital for the insane and is getting his theories from crayon writings on the wall, and a dog named Sam, there isn’t much more to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/276 "2010-08-18T02:08:08Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Gonzo, since no amount of evidence to the contrary or opinions which are against yours in relation to this, what the hell are you getting out of this? Is there any point in debating with you? It’s just a circular argument, and hell, you don’t even back up assertions anymore, you’re just spouting slogans over and over as if that’ll do the trick if your arguments don’t hold water, plus it’s getting boring ‘debating’ with you. > > Ironically this ‘debate’ is becoming as mired as much as the war supposedly is in Afghanistan. So you do understand. the war is mired and almost everybody knows it. it is a waste of time and money. So I agree with you. Some military nuts like Patraeus want to continue. it is his job after all. He gets more power when he is charge ,even in a wasted war like this.He has a reason to continue this mess. we do not. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/277 "2010-08-18T14:38:30Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > > > Gonzo, since no amount of evidence to the contrary or opinions which are against yours in relation to this, what the hell are you getting out of this? Is there any point in debating with you? It’s just a circular argument, and hell, you don’t even back up assertions anymore, you’re just spouting slogans over and over as if that’ll do the trick if your arguments don’t hold water, plus it’s getting boring ‘debating’ with you. > > > > Ironically this ‘debate’ is becoming as mired as much as the war supposedly is in Afghanistan. > > So you do understand. the war is mired and almost everybody knows it. it is a waste of time and money. So I agree with you. Some military nuts like Patraeus want to continue. it is his job after all. He gets more power when he is charge ,even in a wasted war like this.He has a reason to continue this mess. we do not. Gonzo don’t twist what I’m saying and try to turn it to your advantage. Again, I ask you, if we can’t convince you otherwise, and you’re just looking for a soapbox, what’s the point of this thread if you don’t debate? \*\*Answer the question. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/278 "2010-08-18T15:18:29Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > > [@gonzomax](#): > > > > So you do understand. the war is mired and almost everybody knows it. it is a waste of time and money. So I agree with you. Some military nuts like Patraeus want to continue. it is his job after all. He gets more power when he is charge ,even in a wasted war like this.He has a reason to continue this mess. we do not. > > Gonzo don’t twist what I’m saying and try to turn it to your advantage. Again, I ask you, if we can’t convince you otherwise, and you’re just looking for a soapbox, what’s the point of this thread if you don’t debate? \*\*Answer the question. \*\* Considering how unresponsive you and **Uzi** have been to numerous cites and questions, this is irony, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/279 "2010-08-18T15:23:54Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > > > Gonzo don’t twist what I’m saying and try to turn it to your advantage. Again, I ask you, if we can’t convince you otherwise, and you’re just looking for a soapbox, what’s the point of this thread if you don’t debate? \*\*Answer the question. \*\* > > Considering how unresponsive you and **Uzi** have been to numerous cites and questions, this is irony, isn’t it? I’m directing the question at Gonzomax, go back to working out a ‘peaceful’ solution with OBL and his ilk. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/280 "2010-08-18T15:28:58Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Considering how unresponsive you and **Uzi** have been to numerous cites and questions, this is irony, isn’t it? All your cites and questions were addressed. You just choose to ignore the answer because it didn’t fit into your little conspiracy-laden delusional worldview. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812.md?page=15)