# Let's Debate Afghanistan In The Pit. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812 "2010-07-15T18:44:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/141 "2010-07-29T02:00:01Z")
Gonzo, the market is ‘controlled’ by the governments who own and produce 88% of the the world’s oil. I don’t know what that has to do with how much any private company makes, but it should give you a taste on how much those governments make. What competition do you expect from the private companies who control only 12% of the world’s production? They don’t make much money from gas stations, so many oil companies don’t have them. The refineries are expensive and tough to get built because of all the regulations. And there is nothing stopping you and adhay from opening up your own gas station to provide that competition. Why don’t you? You think Exxon makes money from oil? Where are the numbers of how much your government makes from the taxes and royalties on oil and gas? How many jobs are in the oil industry and how many in the industries that support them? And I’m still waiting for either one of you to inform us on how you propose to fund resource development in the third world without private companies. Well? I understand you don’t want those evil companies there, so where will the money come from? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/142 "2010-07-29T02:11:21Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > And I’m still waiting for either one of you to inform us on how you propose to fund resource development in the third world without private companies. Well? I understand you don’t want those evil companies there, so where will the money come from? No corporations. No money. Just anarcho-syndicalist credits raised through yogic flying. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/143 "2010-07-29T17:42:51Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > > [@Uzi](#): > > > > And I’m still waiting for either one of you to inform us on how you propose to fund resource development in the third world without private companies. Well? I understand you don’t want those evil companies there, so where will the money come from? > > No corporations. No money. Just anarcho-syndicalist credits raised through yogic flying. If only Gene Roddenberry hadn’t died, so he could fully explain his vision of a world without money, and no one gets paid. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/144 "2010-07-29T19:34:22Z")
**Uzi** , my man, I like you. I don’t care if you are in deep denial about what actually faces the vast majority of the human race today or if you are merely a conscious toady/troll of the Corporate Kleptocracy. It makes no difference. Anyone who can endlessly maintain your character on these Boards is a Standup Comedy Hall Of Famer on par with GW Bush. :golf clap: I’m new here. So what is it with your nom de plume? Are you just a gun nut or are you an Israeli gun nut? Other? Anyhow, I was young once too and held opinions much like your own. In my later years, I’ve realized that I had been an asshole most of my life. Just saying. ETA I spent my first 7 years out of college working aerospace. Wake up. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/145 "2010-07-30T00:49:28Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Gonzo, the market is ‘controlled’ by the governments who own and produce 88% of the the world’s oil. I don’t know what that has to do with how much any private company makes, but it should give you a taste on how much those governments make. What competition do you expect from the private companies who control only 12% of the world’s production? They don’t make much money from gas stations, so many oil companies don’t have them. The refineries are expensive and tough to get built because of all the regulations. And there is nothing stopping you and adhay from opening up your own gas station to provide that competition. Why don’t you? > > You think Exxon makes money from oil? Where are the numbers of how much your government makes from the taxes and royalties on oil and gas? How many jobs are in the oil industry and how many in the industries that support them? > > And I’m still waiting for either one of you to inform us on how you propose to fund resource development in the third world without private companies. Well? I understand you don’t want those evil companies there, so where will the money come from? Nobody wants oil companies to disappear tomorrow. Hell I want more of them I want so many that they compete. is that an alien concept to you? Gas stations don’t decide prices. The oil companies actually have computers that change what they charge the station and the pump price automatically. Do you really not understand that either? Read up on oligarchy . We have it all over America. How many cable companies are there. Hows the price shopping there? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/146 "2010-07-30T02:37:39Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The oil companies actually have computers that change what they charge the station and the pump price automatically. Not where I live. YMMV. Either way, I don’t have a problem with corporations using computers. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/147 "2010-07-30T12:30:48Z")
This from Smedley Butler, > **[Smedley Butler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler)** > > Smedley Darlington Butler (July 30, 1881 – June 21, 1940) was an American major general in the United States Marine Corps, writer, anti-war activist, and whistleblower. During his 34-year military career, he fought in the Philippine–American War, the Boxer Rebellion, the Mexican Revolution, World War I, and the Banana Wars. At the time of his death, Butler was the most decorated Marine in U.S. military history. By the end of his career, Butler had received sixteen medals, including five for her... > [@](#): > > a Major General in the U.S. Marine Corps, and at the time of his death the most decorated Marine in U.S. history. During his 34-year career as a Marine, he participated in military actions in the Philippines, China, in Central America during the Banana Wars, the Caribbean and during World War I, he served in France. By the end of his career he had received 16 medals, five of which were for heroism. He is one of 19 people to twice receive the Medal of Honor, one of three to be awarded both the Marine Corps Brevet Medal and the Medal of Honor, and the only person to be awarded the Brevet Medal and two Medals of Honor, all for separate actions. This is his summation of his career. > [@](#): > > I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class thug for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902–1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents. Do you actually think things have changed? 😛 You may remember that Brown Bros was granddaddy Bush’s bank, the one that looked after Hitler’s financial needs in the US. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/148 "2010-07-30T18:11:50Z")
[http://www.ringnebula.com/Oil/Timeline.htm](http://www.ringnebula.com/Oil/Timeline.htm) Why we are in Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/149 "2010-07-30T18:13:55Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > > [@gonzomax](#): > > > > The oil companies actually have computers that change what they charge the station and the pump price automatically. > > Not where I live. YMMV. Either way, I don’t have a problem with corporations using computers. Don’t be obtuse. The station price is determined by the oil companies. There is little wiggle room for them to compete. That is why they stress selling groceries and drinks to stay above water. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/150 "2010-07-30T19:12:28Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The station price is determined by the oil companies. Start up a gas station and set your own price then. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/151 "2010-07-30T19:17:34Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > … When everyone is getting fucked and you know it, you are a pig that has learned to dance. :golf clap: You’ve inspired me, call me **golf clap** from now on. The difference between a dancing pig and one who can’t is simply a question of will. Never open a Dancing School For Pigs. It irritates them. Instead, insist they comment on > [@adhay](#): > > This from Smedley Butler, > [Smedley Butler - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler) > > > [@](#): > > > > … spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class thug for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I guess my point is that you will never get a pig to dance to your tune. Why bother? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/152 "2010-07-30T20:00:47Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > I guess my point is that you will never get a pig to dance to your tune. Why bother? That assumes you know how to actually hold a tune. So far you’ve demonstrated that you are tone deaf. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/153 "2010-07-30T20:40:10Z")
Your comment on my cite, please. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/154 "2010-07-30T21:47:29Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > > [@Muffin](#): > > > > > [@gonzomax](#): > > > > > > The oil companies actually have computers that change what they charge the station and the pump price automatically. > > > > Not where I live. YMMV. Either way, I don’t have a problem with corporations using computers. > > Don’t be obtuse. The station price is determined by the oil companies. There is little wiggle room for them to compete. That is why they stress selling groceries and drinks to stay above water. No, the rack price is set by oil company. The station price is set by the marketer, unless it is owned by the oil company. It is true that the margin for gas is pretty low, while the margin on Cheetos, a Coke and a pack of Marlboros is nice and high. Mini-marts are the source of profit, gasoline is the source of revenue. You can purchase fuel in bulk, store, and top yourself off in some areas. We used to keep diesel for the tractors and our trucks on the farm. We topped it off every now and then so that we could keep the equipment running. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/155 "2010-07-31T20:28:57Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > > [@gonzomax](#): > > > > > [@Muffin](#): > > > > > > > [@gonzomax](#): > > > > > > > > The oil companies actually have computers that change what they charge the station and the pump price automatically. > > > > > > Not where I live. YMMV. Either way, I don’t have a problem with corporations using computers. > > > > Don’t be obtuse. The station price is determined by the oil companies. There is little wiggle room for them to compete. That is why they stress selling groceries and drinks to stay above water. > > No, the rack price is set by oil company. The station price is set by the marketer, unless it is owned by the oil company. It is true that the margin for gas is pretty low, while the margin on Cheetos, a Coke and a pack of Marlboros is nice and high. Mini-marts are the source of profit, gasoline is the source of revenue. > > You can purchase fuel in bulk, store, and top yourself off in some areas. We used to keep diesel for the tractors and our trucks on the farm. We topped it off every now and then so that we could keep the equipment running. The price of oil is a financial game played by markets. It is bought and sold by speculators who drive it up or kill it with gambling and guessing. The stations are minor players ,with nothing to work with. [The Latest News from the UK and Around the World | Sky News](http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Sky-News-Archive/Article/20080641317363) Even OPEC is powerless to control the speculation manipulating the market. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/156 "2010-08-01T11:45:06Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@adhay](#): > > > > I guess my point is that you will never get a pig to dance to your tune. Why bother? > > That assumes you know how to actually hold a tune. So far you’ve demonstrated that you are tone deaf. Here’s the first stanza of a little tune I wrote back in '88. You’ve been dancing to it all your life. The choreography you’ve worked out, however, is rudimentary. Just push your snout a little further into the public trough. Oh, I can’t see further than the evening news I’m lost in all that snow. The man in charge gives me his views And I say yes or no. But that’s about my say in it Except I go to work. Now I won’t tell you if you don’t ask me But we must be some kind of jerk. > [@adhay](#): > > Your comment on my cite, please. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley\_Butler](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler) ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/157 "2010-08-01T15:00:22Z")
I’ve asked quite a few times how you intend to fund development of third world countries without using corporate money (because governments have had their chance and essentially do nothing) and have had no answers from you. Why should anyone comment on your link until then? ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/158 "2010-08-01T18:06:07Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > I’ve asked quite a few times how you intend to fund development of third world countries without using corporate money (because governments have had their chance and essentially do nothing) and have had no answers from you. According to Gen Butler, Chief Corporate Warlord for 30 years [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley\_Butler, our Corporate warlord on the ground](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler) (check it out, if you dare), Corporate Investment in developing the third world amounts to directing taxpayer money to employing the US Miltary to break up popular resistance to the Corporate takeover of its resources. Then, once the social and agricultural infrastructures are fragmented, we choose the most ruthless, corrupt and predatory faction, arm and fund them, courtesy of the US taxpayer, and proceed to roll in on bribes pushing the disposable indigenous folk into collateral damage. (Give me one counter-example. Or comment on the cite. Or just stfu. All due respect.) Only then, insured of a soft labor market, does the Corporate Kleptocracy fully invest in the tools for a thorough extraction of anything of value. The locals are left with Freedom, Democracy And Toxic Waste. Doesn’t that happen everyday in your world, dude? Or, maybe you just think you can’t dance. > [@](#): > > Why should anyone comment on your link until then? Yes? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/159 "2010-08-01T21:04:17Z")
Right, no company in the history of the world ever invested in another country without the US military ‘allowing’ it to happen.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812/160 "2010-08-01T21:09:38Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Right, no company in the history of the world ever invested in another country without the US military ‘allowing’ it to happen.:rolleyes: Is that what said? Please cite. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-debate-afghanistan-in-the-pit/546812.md?page=9)