# Let's disarm our nukes and see what happens. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2019, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725 "2019-10-31T02:15:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/41 "2019-11-01T03:50:20Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Nuclear disarmament isn’t silly, in and of itself. I doubt many in this thread are all fired up about having nuclear weapons. I’m certainly not. I hate the evil things, and would be fine if we all got rid of them. But you have to have a rational plan. You don’t just wing a major decision and ‘see what happens’. That’s rarely a good idea even for an individual, let alone a nation state…let alone a superpower that is part of a web of connections and balances. > > Let me give you a timely example of what folks have been trying to explain to you…obviously in vain. Take the situation in Syria. Until recently, the US, despite having a very small force, was the balance point maintaining the status quo in the region. No one could or would go outside of certain parameters because they didn’t want to risk the US’s wrath. Then, a freaking orange haired monkey decided, hell, let’s change the equation and ‘see what happens’. Who knew it would cause such chaos and shift the balance so much, causing such a humanitarian crisis?? No one could have predicted that (heavy sarcasm here)!! > > What you are suggesting is a LOT worse and a lot more destabilizing. It’s, seriously, the kind of silly, stupid shit that TRUMP would do on a whim. It’s his level of thought and understanding. I disagree, us having nuclear bombs has not been as effective as you suggest in preventing Russia or others from doing things we don’t like. If you haven’t realized it, there are a lot of humanitarian crisis’s going on, and we’re actually contributing to some of them. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/42 "2019-11-01T03:52:42Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Yes, you are right because it’s impossible to violate a treaty. Which is why you have the US or Russia lead in said treaty. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/43 "2019-11-01T03:53:46Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Errr, what? No they will not. :dubious: Do you think these things are on a hair-trigger or shoddily assembled, so that if they rust a bit, or are jostled, they will go off? > > _ **Tens of thousands** _ of nuclear weapons have been assembled since the dawn of the Nuclear Age. The majority of them were simply disassembled after a while with no incident whatsoever. There has not been a single accidental or wartime detonation of a nuclear weapon since Nagasaki in 1945. Guess you’ve never heard of Vasili Arkhipov. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/44 "2019-11-01T04:28:38Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > My point being, even without nukes the US could win virtually any war if we went all out. Nuclear isn’t the biggest deterrent, our intelligence is. No, nuclear weapons are our biggest deterrent. They make up a major portion of our military strength. With nuclear weapons, the United States is probably the strongest country in the world militarily. But without nuclear weapons, we’re barely in the top five. Russia, China, Britain, China _with_ nuclear weapons could all defeat the United States _without_ nuclear weapons. India’s a maybe; they have a good-sized arsenal of nuclear warheads but they haven’t developed a significant delivery system - their nuclear weapons program has been based around using nuclear weapons in Asia and they’ve only recently begun deploying global reach weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/45 "2019-11-01T04:32:37Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Guess you’ve never heard of Vasili Arkhipov. He was the Russian admiral who _didn’t_ use nuclear weapons during the Cuban missile crisis. I don’t know why you think mentioning him refutes Velocity’s statement that there’s been no use of nuclear weapons since 1945. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/46 "2019-11-01T13:42:27Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Let’s say Russia threatens the US with a nuke after we disarm. Let’s say they drop a nuke on us. The US would retaliate by shutting down their power grids, disabling hospitals, and isolating the country. How? We threaten them, AFTER they dropped a single nuke on us? This is a crazy idea, like most all of your ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/47 "2019-11-01T14:07:27Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > I would not be surprised if the US has actually hijacked nuclear facilities and\*\* in the case of the Russias shooting off nukes for example, they could detonate on themselves.\*\* Bro, you have been reading too many Patrick Robinson novels. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/48 "2019-11-01T14:10:53Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Which is why you have the US or Russia lead in said treaty. I can’t find enough sense in what you are saying to respond sarcastically. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/49 "2019-11-01T15:18:30Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > I disagree, us having nuclear bombs has not been as effective as you suggest in preventing Russia or others from doing things we don’t like. What are you talking about? 😕 Russia being a puppet of the US and doing what we say (or vice versa) is BECAUSE we both have nuclear weapons. Good grief. :smack: > [@](#): > > If you haven’t realized it, there are a lot of humanitarian crisis’s going on, and we’re actually contributing to some of them. Which has nothing to do with the point I was making. About as incomprehensible for you to spew out as your first paragraph talking about nukes being less effective because Russia doesn’t do stuff we like. I’m unsure if you are making a good faith effort to debate and you really don’t get any of this and can’t grasp what myriad people in this thread have tried to tell you, or you are feigning misunderstanding and comprehension because you are playing a game…or because your brilliant idea has been pretty much universally shot down by nearly everyone else in this thread, all for valid reasons that, perhaps, you didn’t see when you thought of it. I will assume it’s the former, and you just don’t get it, even though to me it’s pretty much a no-brainer. The point the part you responded too was to try and demonstrate to you what happens when someone who knows nothing about a situation and decides, on a whim and without consulting anyone, to change that situation for no good reason and ‘see what happens’, it can go very, very wrong (who know??). And the situation in Syria is MUCH less vital and of far less consequence to the US just deciding, on the whims of an orange haired monkey at the controls, to disarm…and ‘see what happens’. ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/50 "2019-11-01T16:20:32Z")
Does anyone else think it is funny that the OP won a Nobel Prize for: “…his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama’s vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons.” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/51 "2019-11-01T18:30:34Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Let’s say Russia threatens the US with a nuke after we disarm. Let’s say they drop a nuke on us. The US would retaliate by shutting down their power grids, disabling hospitals, and isolating the country. The Russians lost 10 million people to Hitler. You thing a few blackouts will deter them from fighting a war they know they will win? ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/52 "2019-11-01T21:57:28Z")
> [@XT](#): > > What are you talking about? 😕 Russia being a puppet of the US and doing what we say (or vice versa) is BECAUSE we both have nuclear weapons. Good grief. :smack: How did you get that from what I said? Despite us both having nukes, russia is unwilling to listen to what we say. How did you get “russia being puppet of US” I seriously want to know. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/53 "2019-11-01T22:00:28Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Which has nothing to do with the point I was making. About as incomprehensible for you to spew out as your first paragraph talking about nukes being less effective because Russia doesn’t do stuff we like. > > I’m unsure if you are making a good faith effort to debate and you really don’t get any of this and can’t grasp what myriad people in this thread have tried to tell you, or you are feigning misunderstanding and comprehension because you are playing a game…or because your brilliant idea has been pretty much universally shot down by nearly everyone else in this thread, all for valid reasons that, perhaps, you didn’t see when you thought of it. I will assume it’s the former, and you just don’t get it, even though to me it’s pretty much a no-brainer. > > The point the part you responded too was to try and demonstrate to you what happens when someone who knows nothing about a situation and decides, on a whim and without consulting anyone, to change that situation for no good reason and ‘see what happens’, it can go very, very wrong (who know??). And the situation in Syria is MUCH less vital and of far less consequence to the US just deciding, on the whims of an orange haired monkey at the controls, to disarm…and ‘see what happens’. First paragraph of this thread “I think the only real problem that could occur is when say Russia meddles with a country we say hey stop it, then they tell us to go fuck ourselves but that happens regardless of whether we got nukes or not” I’m aware disarming nukes could cause bad actors to act more bad, but that happens regardless of whether we have nukes or not, and us having nukes to try to force people who aren’t going to listen anyways is more dangerous than not having them. Do you see nuclear disarmament in the foreseeable future? If not, then perhaps you’re on the wrong side of the issue here and your defenses are moot in comparison to the dangers imposed by this notion of nuclear deterrence. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/54 "2019-11-01T22:18:49Z")
**Barack Obama,** every paragraph you write in this thread is so rife with bad assumptions one isn’t even sure where to begin to address them. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/55 "2019-11-01T23:33:53Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > **Barack Obama,** every paragraph you write in this thread is so rife with bad assumptions one isn’t even sure where to begin to address them. How so? It looks like I’m the only one in this thread with a goal of disarmament while everyone else is trying to defend it despite the facts. Allies still develop nukes even with us having nukes. Russia still fucks with other countries despite us having nukes North korea still commits mass human rights violations despite us having nukes With or without nukes these things still happen. The assumption I’m making now is that we’re more likely to have another accidental nuke, whether it be from system malfunctioning or misinformation. The only way to prevent that inevitability is to disarm. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/56 "2019-11-01T23:40:53Z")
Give up nukes? Not all of them. Maybe a 1/4 or so. How about the smallpox and other biologicals? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/57 "2019-11-01T23:52:15Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Allies still develop nukes even with us having nukes. > > Russia still fucks with other countries despite us having nukes > > North korea still commits mass human rights violations despite us having nukes People still die in car accidents despite wearing seat belts. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/58 "2019-11-02T00:53:59Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > With or without nukes these things still happen. So nuclear disarmament will have no effect on these things. Therefore bringing them up in a thread about nuclear disarmament is off topic. > [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > The assumption I’m making now is that we’re more likely to have another accidental nuke, whether it be from system malfunctioning or misinformation. The only way to prevent that inevitability is to disarm. And I, along with other people, have pointed out that this assumption is probably wrong. If the United States eliminated its nuclear arsenal that would be a signal for other countries to build up their own nuclear arsenals. Either to defend themselves now that they were no longer protected by America’s nuclear umbrella or because they saw opportunities now that they were no longer potentially threatened by American nuclear weapons. Right now we have nine nuclear powers. Under your proposal we would drop down to eight. And in a few years, we’d have twenty. And most of those countries would be less stable than the United States and less able to afford adequate safeguards. So the likelihood of a nuclear weapons accident would be higher than it is now. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/59 "2019-11-02T00:59:01Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > People still die in car accidents despite wearing seat belts. Seat belts are designed to protect people in car accidents, nukes are designed to murder people in wars. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725/60 "2019-11-02T01:00:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So nuclear disarmament will have no effect on these things. Therefore bringing them up in a thread about nuclear disarmament is off topic. > > And I, along with other people, have pointed out that this assumption is probably wrong. If the United States eliminated its nuclear arsenal that would be a signal for other countries to build up their own nuclear arsenals. Either to defend themselves now that they were no longer protected by America’s nuclear umbrella or because they saw opportunities now that they were no longer potentially threatened by American nuclear weapons. > > Right now we have nine nuclear powers. Under your proposal we would drop down to eight. And in a few years, we’d have twenty. > > And most of those countries would be less stable than the United States and less able to afford adequate safeguards. So the likelihood of a nuclear weapons accident would be higher than it is now. So in other words you’ll die on this hill to defend nuclear weapons. You guys have gun nut mentality, guns make u safe right? The same way those nukes make u safe? and no its not off topic, if we acknowledge this will happen regardless, then we should at least disarm and lower the danger. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-disarm-our-nukes-and-see-what-happens/842725.md?page=4)