# Let's discuss the All-Star Game lineups **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 13, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-all-star-game-lineups/254908 "2004-07-13T15:52:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chunky\_Bum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Chunky\_Bum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chunky_Bum)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-all-star-game-lineups/254908/21 "2004-07-14T16:34:00Z")
Umm, I made a glaring omission. Heh, Alex Rodriguez needs to go on my team! :smack: Alex Rodriguez goes into starting lineup. Derek Jeter goes to the bench. Michael Young gets sent to the practice squad. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![rowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@rowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowe)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-all-star-game-lineups/254908/22 "2004-07-14T16:38:14Z")
Well, the best system in my opinion is the one used in the NHL & NBA. Why not just award the home field advantage to the team with the best overall record? That way the advantage is definitely earned by the participating team, rather than simply being assigned or decided by the All Star teams. I never understood why baseball had the alternating home field system. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Itā€™s more fair because everybody knew that system coming in. Suppose you have a mini-dynasty where you reach the WS two years in a row. In the old system, youā€™d have the home field one year and not the other. In this system, you could be without the home field both years just because some guys on others teams had bad pitching performances. Or you could have it two years in a row because some guy on a different team got hot. Itā€™s been tradition that home field in WS play be balanced over the short and long term, this new system destroys that. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-all-star-game-lineups/254908/23 "2004-07-14T16:44:08Z")
C - Ivan Rodriguez 1B - Albert Pujols 2B - Alfonso Soriano SS - Miquel Tejada 3B - Mike Lowell LF - Manny Ramirez CF - Carlos Beltran RF - Sammy Sosa DH - Vlad Guerrero Bench C - Victor Martinez IF - Raphael Palmeiro IF - Aramis Ramirez IF - Edgar Renteria OF - Bobby Abreu OF - Ichiro Pitchers Pedro Martinez Javier Vazquez Johan Santana Carlos Zambrano Estaban Loaiza Eric Gagne (heā€™s mine, not yours) Mariano Rivera Juan Rincon Armando Benitez Francisco Cordero Sorry, but I think I win everywhere except LF and 3B, as well a \*very \* slight lead in starting pitching. Youā€™d get SS if you had put A-Rod there. ---
**Author:** ![Chunky\_Bum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Chunky\_Bum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chunky_Bum)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-all-star-game-lineups/254908/24 "2004-07-14T17:06:22Z")
I did put A-Rod in [see my post above]. Heh, I didnā€™t realize Eric Gagne was Canadian! Ok, so here is my updated roster: C- Mike Piazza 1B- Jim Thome 2B- Brett Boone SS- Alex Rodriguez 3B- Scott Rolen LF- Barry Bonds CF- Ken Griffey, Jr. RF- Gary Sheffield DH- Frank Thomas Bench C- Paul Lo Duca IF- Todd Helton IF- Derek Jeter OF- Adam Dunn OF- J.D. Drew Pitchers Randy Johnson Curt Shilling Roger Clemens Jason Schmidt Mark Mulder Ben Sheets Tom Glavine Danny Graves Joe Nathan Keith Foulke Itā€™s dead even IMHO. No way we would ā€œget our asses handed to usā€. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-all-star-game-lineups/254908/25 "2004-07-14T17:33:15Z")
Dead even? I really donā€™t see it. C: Rodriguez clearly has the advantage here over Piazza. Pudge may end up with the MVP if the Tigers do something dramatic like take the ALCentral. You: 7.5 Me: 9 1B: Pujols is in the top 3 of players in MLB. Thome isnā€™t. Itā€™s close one. You: 8.5 Me: 9 2B: Boone sucks right now. Soriano is fantastic. Not even close. You: 6 Me: 8.5 3B: Rolen rocks, offensively and defensively. You win here, by about the same margin as my win in 1B. You: 9.5 Me: 8.5 SS: A-Rod v. Tejada. A classic matchup. 1 MVP v. 1 MVP. I suppose A-Rod wins. šŸ˜‰ You: 10 Me: 8.5 LF: Bonds, hands down. You: 10 Me: 8.5 CF: Beltran, and itā€™s not even close. The gap here engulfs your SS and LF margins. You: 7 Me: 9.5 RF: Iā€™m moving Vlad here. And he kicks Sheffā€™s ass. You: 8 Me: 9 DH: Big Hurt v. Sammy Sosa, the Windy City rivals. Seeing as Thomas may be done for the season, Sosa wins. You: 5 Me: 7.5 Bench: Iā€™ll take Palmeiro off, to make this 5 to 5. And again, I come out smelling like a rose. The only truly solid player you have here is Helton. You: 7.5 Me: 8.5 Pitching: Hereā€™s where itā€™s truly dead even. You have better starters, I have vastly better relievers. You (starters/relievers): 9.5/8 Me: 8/9.5 Totals You: 96.5 Me: 104.0 Ultimately, my offense and relief is going to dominate. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-all-star-game-lineups/254908/26 "2004-07-14T17:49:52Z")
Concession: Looking over the rosters, you do have a distinct defensive advantage. Iā€™m not sure how much that would change my rankings. Also, Iā€™d love to see input from others here. A third-party perspective would be fantastic. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-all-star-game-lineups/254908/27 "2004-07-14T19:21:44Z")
Iā€™d do the American Lineup a little differently. Thinking about it it terms of a batting order Iā€™d go with 1. Lawton(underrated complete player, good defensive center fielder, good lead-off man) 2. A-rod 3. Rolen 4. Bonds 5. Helton (I like the extra average over Thomas after Bonds gets IBB) 6. Thome 7. Sheffield 8. Piazza 9 Brett Boone(damn heā€™s out of place :)) ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-all-star-game-lineups/254908/28 "2004-07-14T20:09:31Z")
I like Lawton more than Griffey, but the best American choice for CF/leadoff would be Podsednik. ---
**Author:** ![Chunky\_Bum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Chunky\_Bum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chunky_Bum)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-all-star-game-lineups/254908/29 "2004-07-14T20:52:49Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Totals > You: 96.5 > Me: 104.0 > > Ultimately, my offense and relief is going to dominate. Well, your final count is hardly a huge difference. I donā€™t see any ass whooping being done with a 7.5 point difference. Plus, the numbers should be a little closer anyway (these are adjustments to Munchā€™s calculations): - .5 for me regarding relievers. No way you have ā€œvastly better relieversā€. - 1.0 for me regarding CF. Griffey is a Hall of Famer lock, with over 500HRā€™s, and has one less HR than Beltran so far this year (21 to 20). Defensive equal. Advantage Griffey. - .5 for me regarding the bench. Cmon, the benches are equal. Dunn, Drew, Lo Duca are big time underrated. You should know that. Plus, I left off a bench player (24 players total, instead of 25). Iā€™m adding Hank Blalock. - 1.0 for me because of better overall defensive and experience (especially pitching). So, we now have a 4.5 point overall difference. šŸ˜‰ Wheeeeeeeeeeeee, isnā€™t this fun? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-all-star-game-lineups/254908/30 "2004-07-14T21:18:56Z")
If youā€™re adding points to an injured Griffey based on career numbers, then I get to recruit Roberto Clemente. Besides Vlad, Beltran may be the best all-around player in baseball right now. Iā€™ll give you the bench points, but donā€™t say that LoDuca is underrated. Drew is underrated, LoDuca is a fluke (and if you use Griffeyā€™s career numbers, then you have to use Drew and LoDucaā€™s career numbers!). Iā€™d also give you the relievers point, if you didnā€™t have Graves in there. Replace him with Kolb (what, 1 extra base hit all season?), and youā€™ve improved the bullpen. Iā€™d also switch out Rincon with Francisco Rodriquez. Iā€™d also like to see an All-Star game where only relief pitchers are used. I wonder how many scoreless innings that would go into. ---
**Author:** ![Chunky\_Bum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Chunky\_Bum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chunky_Bum)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-all-star-game-lineups/254908/31 "2004-07-14T21:23:45Z")
I donā€™t know Munch. All I know is, this would so awesome to see. I would donate a kidney and chew on a ball of tinfoil for a week if it would help make this happen. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-all-star-game-lineups/254908/32 "2004-07-14T21:30:15Z")
Nice. Hey, what could a little tinfoil hurt? I have to admit, I had a head start as I compiled a list last night for each team during the game. I built my teams for a 3 game series, and had 2 players for each position, instead of creating a bench. I think the World team came out much stronger with that format than it did here. (Though I forgot about Loaiza and had to set the clock to Lima Time!) For the American team, I might take out Glavine and replace him with Tom Gordon or Brad Lidge for some set-up duty. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-all-star-game-lineups/254908/33 "2004-07-15T02:00:21Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Dead even? I really donā€™t see it. > > C: Rodriguez clearly has the advantage here over Piazza. Pudge may end up with the MVP if the Tigers do something dramatic like take the ALCentral. You: 7.5 Me: 9 > > 1B: Pujols is in the top 3 of players in MLB. Thome isnā€™t. Itā€™s close one. You: 8.5 Me: 9 > > 2B: Boone sucks right now. Soriano is fantastic. Not even close. You: 6 Me: 8.5 Soriano is not fantastic. Heā€™s not within a mile of fantastic, dude. Heā€™s hitting .289 with some power, but not a lot of power - .466 slugging percentage. He doesnā€™t walk, heā€™s not running the bases as much as he used to, and he is a poor defensive player. His numbers are pretty much the same as Juan Uribeā€™s or Omar Infanteā€™s. Given defense, Orlando Hudson is just as good a player. Jose Vidroā€™s better. Soriano is the most overrated player in baseball. A 6, maybe. Bret Boone is a dumb choice for the USA. Really, the US second baseman should be any one of a dozen other guys - Loretta, Kent, Hudson, Bellhorn. Iā€™d pick Vidro for my World team over Soriano eight days a week. My backup would be Luis Castillo. Soriano wouldnā€™t even be on my 25-man roster. > [@](#): > > CF: Beltran, and itā€™s not even close. The gap here engulfs your SS and LF margins. You: 7 Me: 9.5 Here your opponent just picked the wrong guy. A US team could play Brian Giles in CF, or Adam Dunn, or a dozen other guys who can handle center. ---
**Author:** ![Chunky\_Bum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Chunky\_Bum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chunky_Bum)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-all-star-game-lineups/254908/34 "2004-07-15T12:55:27Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Here your opponent just picked the wrong guy. A US team could play Brian Giles in CF, or Adam Dunn, or a dozen other guys who can handle center. The lack of respect you guys are giving Griffey is shocking. The guy is a career .292 hitter with over 500 HRā€™s! He has won 10 Gold Gloves! He is on pace this year to hit over 40 HRā€™s and 120 RBIā€™s! His recent plague of injuries is a concern, but Iā€™d take him in CF over anyone else in the MLā€™s in a New York minute. Regarding Boone, his numbers are very close to Kentā€™s over the last 4 years. I think Boone is a better defensive player than Kent. Plus, I just donā€™t like Kentā€™s attitude. True, Boone is having an off year so far, but I stand by my pick. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-all-star-game-lineups/254908/35 "2004-07-15T13:15:26Z")
> [@Chunky Bum](#): > > Regarding Boone, his numbers are very close to Kentā€™s over the last 4 years. I think Boone is a better defensive player than Kent. Plus, I just donā€™t like Kentā€™s attitude. True, Boone is having an off year so far, but I stand by my pick. Griffey (sorry, I cut off your Griffey comment) is certainly a Hall of Famer, but if Iā€™m picking a team to win **today,** his winning the MVP Award in 1997 doesnā€™t have anything to do with it. He is not a very good defensive player anymore and heā€™s not the hitter he used to be. You cannot objectively explain why today, in 2004, Adam Dunn isnā€™t a better player. Or Brian Giles, or Vernon Wells, or lots of guys. Iā€™m not criticizing him; heā€™s just worn down from injury and a long career, thatā€™s all. I sometimes wonder if his starting as a regular at age 19 is one of the reasons heā€™s had so many injury problems in his early 30s. As for Boone, heā€™s had a few amazing years, but theyā€™re sort of out of the context of his whole career so at his age Iā€™d bet against him. Just my guess though. I gotta admit that at this point there arenā€™t ANY obvious candidates among USA-born second basemen so who knows, Boone might be the man. I just think your team was weighted a little strongly towards who was great three to six years ago, as opposed to today. Griffey over Wells isnā€™t helping Team USAā€™s chances. Rule Question: Puerto Rican players are Americans. Logically should they not be on the U.S. squad? ---
**Author:** ![Chunky\_Bum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Chunky\_Bum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chunky_Bum)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-all-star-game-lineups/254908/36 "2004-07-15T13:25:53Z")
I guess you missed the part where I said ā€œHe is on pace **this year** to hit over 40 HRā€™s and 120 RBIā€™s!ā€. :dubious: There are lots of good American CFā€™s (Damon, Finley, Edmonds, Biggio, Jones, etc.), but Iā€™m sorry, a healthy Griffey is the obvious choice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-all-star-game-lineups/254908.md?page=1)