# Let's discuss the subtext and unanswered questions of the Jack and the Beanstalk story **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 11, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578 "2011-05-11T22:50:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/41 "2011-05-12T18:52:34Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > _pfffft._ Of _course_ he knew Jack could beat the giant. His name was _Jack_, ferchrissake. > > The only that could have made the Giant’s death a surer bet is if the kid’s name was B.L. Taylor. > > And poor women who are needy to the point of starvation are not generally known for their pulchritudinous forms. > > 'Less the guy was some sort of fetishist, of course; gotta give Rule 34 its props. Some guys find the gaunt look hot. Besides, B could flesh her out in a matter of weeks. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/42 "2011-05-12T19:04:22Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > The only that could have made the Giant’s death a surer bet is if the kid’s name was B.L. Taylor. > [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Or, you know, _David._ Good point. Come to think of it, giants are downright _fragile_. ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/43 "2011-05-12T19:44:37Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > The beanseller has probably been offering beans for cows, horses, and Maseratis for years, but no one would bite, because they were always far too sensible. Well, that would explain why the ambulatory butcher/greengrocer business model never took off. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/44 "2011-05-12T20:57:58Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] My theory: the Beanseller has a personal beef (no cow pun intended) with the giant but is unable to invade Giantland himself. He wants the Giant dead, but needs a patsy. [/QUOTE] That’s it. B is actually G. (Ghandalf.) ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/45 "2011-05-12T21:34:31Z")
All this talk about giants and beans and no mention of the economic impact of a magical hen that can lay golden eggs? Now I’ve done the math, and a large egg made solid gold weighs about 900 grams. In some stories, the hen can lay eggs on command, but lets just assume Jack has the hen lay an egg once a day. Over the course of a year, that 328.5 kg of gold. That’s a metric ton every three years. This means that, going by 1800’s gold prices, Jack floods the market with over $200000 worth of gold every year. The influx of gold lowers its price and crashes the market. That’s right, Jack and Beanstalk caused the Great Depression. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/46 "2011-05-12T22:37:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Now I’ve done the math, and a large egg made solid gold weighs about 900 grams. It’s not _solid_ gold; just a thin layer just inside the shell (along with a few other exotic but stable isotopes). The fowl transmutes it from environmental oxygen-18. Sheesh, don’t you folks know _anything_? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/47 "2011-05-12T23:11:00Z")
So more properly it’s a “gilded egg”. Either way, while it’s stupid to cut the goose open bluntly dissecting it would be an excellent idea as somehow it’s digestive tract has found a way to convert grain and whatever else it’s ingested into gold. UNLESS the goose has been fed gold and is just getting rid of it in their digestive tract by slathering it onto eggshells. I wonder, if the goose does alchemize grain into gold, I wonder what would happen if you mated her to a regular gander: would the eggs hatch into gold plated geese, would the geese hatched also lay golden eggs, or would they just be 100% regular run of the mill geese. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/48 "2011-05-13T13:44:18Z")
[Roald Dahl](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpAoCUN4toE) has this covered. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/49 "2011-05-13T13:46:29Z")
I wish I had seen this thread before it hit Threadspotting. You may be unaware that in the Appalachian Jack Stories, Jack gets set up for a number of adventures by a one-eyed wandering peddler wearing a wide brimmed hat. Jack usually engages in an honest trade with this mysterious peddler. He trades a cow for some beans, or shares his meal for a place to sleep. After the trade, where Jack _does not ask for more than is offered_, Jack then fights a monster (or monsters) on the peddler’s behalf. He fights a giant in the first case, and witches in the second case. Then jack gets a reward for his honesty. (The Giant’s gold or the shack where he slept is transformed in to a large house.) I think it’s obvious that Jack is the Mysterious One-eyed Peddler’s pawn. And who is this mysterious wandering peddler who is missing an eye, wears a wide brimmed hat, rewards honesty, and wants to defeat monsters? Could it be… Odin? ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/50 "2011-05-13T20:38:21Z")
… though I’ll be brief. It is really Tabart’s story of his Nostradamus-like vision of the life of one Willy Gilligan. Gilligan, one day, ate the seeds of a strange-looking bush and besides giving him the ability to read minds it dimly projected his mind down through the ages and into the dreams of one Benjamin Tabart who wrote down the metaphorical Jack and the Beanstalk story. Willy Gilligan was a bumbling, dimwitted, accident-prone man. Both Willy (diminuitive of William) and Jack (diminuitive of John) for all of the 19th Century and the first half of the 20th Century, were the most frequently given male names. Hence the confusion in Tabart’s dream-like state and the use of Jack. Gilligan, in the Navy, had saved the life of Jonas Grumby, who was a giant of a man in his eyes. Gilligan’s greatest regret was taking the Skipper’s prized treasure, the S.S. Minnow, away from him. Jack’s leaving home with the family cow and trading it for beans left his mother destitute. This reflected Gilligan’s leaving home to join the Navy (viewed as the staple of the U.S. Navy, the navy bean). Gilligan wanted to climb the ranks in the Navy and be a giant of a man like his mentor. This was Jack’s climb up the bean(stalk) to reach the giant. After his stint in the Navy he could have returned home, but his mother saw her final chance to keep her son (the cash cow who sent his paychecks home) fade as Gilligan was tempted too much by another life - on the S.S. Minnow. i.e. Baited, Jack sets sail (ventures off) to make his fortune. But, Gilligan encounters a storm and throws an anchor overboard without a rope attached, just as Jack’s mother (Mother Earth) yells at him for his poor choice in throwing away their cow and losing their lifeline. Gilligan ends up shipwrecked on an “uncharted” desert island (the giant’s land) where the Skipper’s greatest treasure, taken by Gilligan, lies. This is the cause of the Skipper greatest fall - captaining his own ship. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/51 "2011-05-13T22:54:45Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Is Jack the same Jack of Jack & Jill infamy? Kid gets around. I dunno, that Jack fell down broke his crown at the top of a hill. He’d probably get a fear of heights from the incident and thus not climb a beanstalk. Maybe that Jack was the father of this Jack, and Jill was the mother? After Jack Sr. amassed a fortune in alternative water gathering patents, the giant stole his wealth and killed him, the giant not needing alternative water gathering due to living in a cloud. ---
**Author:** ![goodie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@goodie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/goodie)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/52 "2011-05-13T23:12:15Z")
This story makes all kinds of sense once you realize that Jack was originally a girl. Beanseller is ovary. Magic bean-- egg. Jack pre-pubescent girl. Withered old cow, her mother’s lost fertility. Jackie gets her magic period–ZOOM!!! She’s with the “giant” (you all wish…) man, he uses her up and spits her out, during which time she found some solace from his wife–her vision of her future self–then she’s back home, a full fledged woman conscious of her ability to destroy man. Happy ending! ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/53 "2011-05-14T13:05:09Z")
Jack was thrilled after killing the giant. He came to crave the excitement. At first he did little things, usually to frighten girls. Like dropping a spider here and scaring a little girl, and there taking farm animals and watching a shepardess worry. He grew numb to these childish taunts and escalated. He began peeping in windows and grew callous as he baked small birds in pies, but even at this he failed. Driven by hatred of his own ineptitude he would attack anything that reminded him of himself. But even as simple task as pushing another similarly named individual down a hill was a failure. He finally snapped and subverted his entire identity. He would dress up to disguise himself. He donned female garb, but failed as a witch to cook children. He then supplanted his human identity and acted the animal but again failed to subdue a little ginger-haired girl or even some pigs. By this time he realized that he wasn’t aging and faced with immortality as an impotent man he snapped completely. He hated women and became - Jack The Ripper. After many killings failed to satisfy him he snapped once again. He became the exact opposite of everything in life that had failed him. He became - Willy Gilligan. ---
**Author:** ![tiescore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@tiescore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiescore)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/54 "2011-05-17T18:10:05Z")
Do we really know the Giant existed? OK, so M has J sell the cow for food. J runs into fast talking used car (or used bean) salesman B. J shows M, M kicks J out of the house for being to lazy to drag his loafing kester to town. J desperate to play his Xbox, wanders over to this crazy rich guys house. Robs him blind, maybe even offs him. Comes home to M and makes up story about beanstalk and G so he looks good and M lets him play the Xbox on the couch for a year. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/55 "2011-05-17T23:04:31Z")
The giant is a metaphor. For really tall people. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/56 "2011-05-17T23:07:04Z")
Or giant is a metaphor for the giant ego of a dwarf. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/57 "2011-05-18T00:11:37Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > That’s it. B is actually G. (Ghandalf.) My brother wants to know: Grey or White? It’s important. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/58 "2011-05-18T14:10:22Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > For starters, why did the peddler, hereinafter referred to as “The Beanseller” or as **B** , trade beans that would allow an invasion of Giantland for a cow? Well, why the heck not? What makes you think he knows or cares about Giantland? From his point of view, the value of his Beanz is that they propogate rapidly and grow very large. Indeed, for a hungry peasant, they’d be a great value, as they’d generate lots _more_ beans the very next day, plus roughage which could be harvested and sold. The beanseller most likely has a huge supply of these beans, but man does not live by Beanz alone. He trades for beef to diversify his diet. From this perspective, the story (or at least the first part thereof) is a paean to capitalism and mutual benefit through free and honest trade. From there it wanders off into a paean to theft. ---
**Author:** ![moohalee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ec9cab/32.png) [@moohalee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moohalee)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/59 "2011-05-21T05:55:00Z")
> [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](#): > > The beans grow - on the face of it, several plants grow from them, in an intertwined fashion. It is not made clear what is supporting them, as beans need to grow on something like another plant or wire. Implausible indeed. Several plants grow from them beans need to grow on something like another plant what is implausable? the beans are other plants in relation to each other. Many beans dont need supporting such as broadbeans ---
**Author:** ![woodpusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3e96dc/32.png) [@woodpusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodpusher)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/60 "2016-03-20T20:01:40Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > And since American Indians are known to have cultivated numerous species of bean, perhaps he was a Hopi. Or go further south- an Inca- and this could be a tale of Macchu Picchu brought over by one of the starcraft that periodically comes out of Lake Titicaca to trade with people on the mountains and catch some shows in America, thus adding an extraterrestrial element. Except that the Giant says, “Fee Fi Fo Fum, I smell the blood of an Englishman! Be he live or be he dead, I’ll grind his bones to make my bread.” This tells me that (a) Giant can differentiate the smell of English blood from other blood, and that (b) he has eaten Englishmen before. Let’s assume that Giant is not a member of Homo sapiens - but is able to speak and form sentences. I can understand the Giant wanting to kill the intruder - but to eat him as well? Surely Giant has eaten people before if he’s talking like this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578.md?page=4)