# Let's discuss the subtext and unanswered questions of the Jack and the Beanstalk story **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 11, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578 "2011-05-11T22:50:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/61 "2016-03-20T23:25:31Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > The beanseller is actually Gandalf, and he can’t use the beans himself because the Giant has wards up against wizardly invasion. Don’t be stupid, any Giant with the forethought to ward against wizards would surely have wards against magic beanstalks as well. (i have no memory of posting to this thread… seems a wizard has indeed been at work) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Cabbage\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/82dd89/32.png) [@The\_Cabbage\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Cabbage_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/62 "2016-03-21T13:43:54Z")
The cloud at the top of the beanstalk hides the island of Laputa (Jonathan Swift, _Gulliver’s Travels_), and the goose laying golden eggs is explained by Isaac Asimov in _Pate de Foie Gras_. ---
**Author:** ![MacLir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@MacLir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacLir)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/63 "2016-03-21T15:49:21Z")
As an aside, I recall reading a sci-fi book that took the position that the story of Jack was a recounting in terms relevant to pre-technical peasants of an encounter with several humanoid races in conflict. As I recall it (LONG time ago) The “seeds” were (nanotech?) anchor points - planted in Jack’s field because it was the right place on the right world - which created an antenna tower to open a hyperspatial gate. This opened to the stronghold of the Giant (member of another humanoid race). Jack is drafted into participating. I think the essential mission was rescue of a kidnapped “woman” who was a musician who played an instrument by direct neural connection - the “singing harp.” General searches and a search via Barnes and Noble fail to turn up the book, which I recall as being titled “Beanstalk.” Anybody else recall this one? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/64 "2016-03-21T17:32:48Z")
Y’all are over-thinking it, even back 5 years ago. Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. The beanseller himself was duped. He traded something good (maybe another cow?) for “magic” beans. Then later he figured he had been duped (maybe his wife hit him on the head with a rolling pin, to knock some sense into him.). So he did what anyone would do - suckered someone else. Unknown to him, they really were magic (no quotes) beans. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/65 "2016-03-21T18:21:18Z")
Ultimately the story is about luck. In this case B is actually a Djinn who decides to mess with Jack by giving him magic beans. Alternately the magic beans were drugs which Jack ate causing him to hallucinate. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/66 "2016-03-21T23:52:28Z")
I’m not nearly as clever as y’all. So I’ll use this: “And then Jack chopped down what was the world’s last beanstalk, adding murder and ecological terrorism to the theft, enticement, and trespass charges already mentioned, and all the giant’s children didn’t have a daddy anymore. But he got away with it and lived happily ever after, without so much as a guilty twinge about what he had done…which proves that you can be excused for just about anything if you are a hero, because no one asks inconvenient questions.” ― Terry Pratchett, Hogfather ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/67 "2016-03-22T20:26:29Z")
Then there’s the “[Into The Woods](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_the_Woods)” version. The bean seller is a baker whose family has a curse placed on it to produce no children, because the baker’s father stole vegetables from his neighbor’s garden, the neighbor being a witch. In order to lift the curse, the baker must obtain four specific items to match a spell. One of the items is “a cow as white as milk.” Jack, a simple boy, owns a cow named Milky White, who is solid white, but Milky White is old and no longer produces milk. Jack’s mother sends him to sell the cow for much more that it is worth and not mention how old it is or that it doesn’t produce milk, whereupon Jack runs into the baker. The baker, not having any money on him, does happen to have five beans that were given to him by a stranger, that is really his father whom he never knew. The beans are from the witch’s garden, and thus magical, but the baker doesn’t know that. However, he needs Milky White, and so he coincidentally tells Jack the beans are magic, like any con man. Thus, the baker tries to con Jack but his lie is actually true, and Jack (following his mother’s orders) tries to con the baker, but the baker doesn’t need a healthy cow or a cow that has milk, it just has to be white. Therefore, they both actually got what they thought they were getting. Then lots of other events unfold. In this version, Jack steals the giant’s golden-egg laying chicken for his mother, then returns and steals the singing harp. The giant tries to retrieve his property, whereupon he falls to his death and smashes Jack’s house. The giant’s wife then comes searching for the lad that killed her husband, and many deaths ensue. Plus lots of destruction. Finally, Jack, the baker, Cinderella, and Red Riding Hood (yes, their stories are part of the tale) cooperate and pull off a plan that kills the giant’ wife, saving Jack. It’s not a happily ever after kind of story. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/68 "2016-03-22T20:49:46Z")
You need to get this movie: [Jack and the Beanstalk: The Real Story.](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0264262/) “Jack Robinson is a wealthy business man with no time for anything but work. However, a family curse is looming over him - no man in the Robinson line ever lives past the age of thirty. With his upcoming birthday appears the remains of literally giant skeleton and a mysterious woman who claims to have once known the giant. Jack decides to go with her to another world where all is revealed to him along with the story of his ancestor, the original Jack and the Beanstalk. In order to save his own life and the world of the giants, Jack must right the wrongs of the past and return the magical harp and goose that lays the golden eggs to their rightful home.” In the movie they show Jack actually taking 3 days to climb all the way up (he eats beans and drinks water found in the leaves). ---
**Author:** ![MacLir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@MacLir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacLir)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/69 "2016-03-24T13:27:01Z")
> [@MacLir](#): > > As an aside, I recall reading a sci-fi book that took the position that the story of Jack was a recounting in terms relevant to pre-technical peasants of an encounter with several humanoid races in conflict. > > As I recall it (LONG time ago) > > The “seeds” were (nanotech?) anchor points - planted in Jack’s field because it was the right place on the right world - which created an antenna tower to open a hyperspatial gate. This opened to the stronghold of the Giant (member of another humanoid race). Jack is drafted into participating. I think the essential mission was rescue of a kidnapped “woman” who was a musician who played an instrument by direct neural connection - the “singing harp.” > > General searches and a search via Barnes and Noble fail to turn up the book, which I recall as being titled “Beanstalk.” Anybody else recall this one? 😕 Found it! It was “Beanstalk” by John Rackham. I found it by recalling the cover art - Kelly Freas - and searching the cover image. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/70 "2016-03-24T23:27:18Z")
In Kate and the Beanstalk (by the author of the Magic Treehouse series, for those of you with kids) the guy who sold the beans was actually a fairy godmother in disguise. The giant had killed Kate’s father and stole his hen, coins, and singing harp. It was all a test to see if she was worthy of the inheritance. Could this be close to the original story? ---
**Author:** ![KKKK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@KKKK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KKKK)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578/71 "2016-03-29T09:12:04Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Presumably everybody knows the story, though there are different versions. Jack and the Beanstalk has more unanswered and half told component stories than any tale since the Book of Exodus. > > For starters, why did the peddler, hereinafter referred to as “The Beanseller” or as **B** , trade beans that would allow an invasion of Giantland for a cow? Not even a nice cow, a cow owned by starving peasants. I have theories. Perhaps “these are magic beans” was a sales pitch that just coincidentally happened to be right, or the Beanseller was honest and really knew they were magic beans. Occams Razor would imply the latter- what are the chances that if he was making up something about the beans to talk a kid out of a cow that the elaborate infeasible tale he made up would just happen to be true? > > So assuming that B knew they were beans that would sprout fast and strong enough to allow a not particularly bright boy (or was he? But I digress) to enter Giantland, a place with such insufficient defenses that even a boy could plunder it, why doesn’t B just plant them himself, loot the Giant’s castle, steal the gold, and use a mere fraction of it to buy a whole herd of cows and still have enough left over to buy a high rise pied a terre, a suburban mansion and a vacation house and still have money left over? > > Either, > > 1- The Beanseller has no interest in money > > OR > > 2- He somehow isn’t able to conduct the raid himself > > If he has no interest in money, why does he have interest in a puny cow? > > My theory: the Beanseller has a personal beef (no cow pun intended) with the giant but is unable to invade Giantland himself. He wants the Giant dead, but needs a patsy. > > OR > > He plans to rob Jack. But that presents so many other problems I’m going to ignore it for now. Perhaps somebody else will take it. Wasn’t there a version somewhere that the beanseller and the fairy (who guided Jack at the top of the beanstalk) were both friends of Jack’s father? And the giant had actually murdered Jack’s father and seized his wealth, and that the beanseller and the fairy were using this roundabout route to help Jack get back his own property? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-discuss-the-subtext-and-unanswered-questions-of-the-jack-and-the-beanstalk-story/581578.md?page=3)