# Let's face it, the real problem is handguns **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 3, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337 "2015-12-03T18:57:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/1 "2015-12-03T18:57:46Z")
However you define an “assault weapon,” it is not the real problem. Long-guns often are used in the mass shootings that get all the press – but most gun-crime in America is done with handguns for the simple reason that handguns are concealable. [Gun violence in the United States:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States) > [@](#): > > Gun violence in the United States results in thousands of deaths and thousands more injuries annually.[1] According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms (excluding BB and pellet guns) were used in 84,258 nonfatal injuries (26.65 per 100,000 U.S. citizens) [2] and 11,208 deaths by homicide (3.5 per 100,000),[3] 21,175 by suicide with a firearm,[4] 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm,[4] and 281 deaths due to firearms-use with “undetermined intent”[5] for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms (excluding firearm deaths due to legal intervention). 1.3% of all deaths in the country were related to firearms.[1][6] > > In 2010, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, 67% of all homicides in the U.S. were conducted using a firearm.[7] According to the FBI, in 2012, there were 8,855 total firearm-related homicides in the US, with 6,371 of those attributed to handguns.[8] 61% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. are suicides.[9] In 2010, there were 19,392 firearm-related suicides, and 11,078 firearm-related homicides in the U.S.[10] In 2010, 358 murders were reported involving a rifle while **6,009 were reported involving a handgun;** another 1,939 were reported with an unspecified type of firearm.[11] We won’t begin to get a handle on this until the 2nd Amendment is either repealed or reinterpreted to allow for some heavy regulation of handgun ownership/possession. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/2 "2015-12-03T19:05:10Z")
This latest incident seems to be linked to Middle East terrorism. > [@](#): > > Authorities told NBC News on Thursday that Farook appeared to have been radicalized. They said he had been in touch with people in the Los Angeles area who have expressed jihadist-oriented views. > > Intelligence sources told NBC News that Farook appeared to have been in some form of communication with overseas individuals who are persons of interest to American authorities. [Source](http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/san-bernardino-shooting/san-bernadino-shooting-suspects-left-baby-daughter-grandma-n473261) All the gun control on God’s green earth won’t protect from that, as witness France. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/3 "2015-12-03T19:12:15Z")
You can only take peoples guns away from them if you claw them from their cold dead hands _after_ they commit a school massacre. If you do it before that you are infringing on the rights of the ammosexuals and the gundamentalists. And as we know, my right to own a tool made specifically for killing humans fast an efficiently is more important than your right not to be shot by me when I lose my mind. It’s not a problem of rationality and can’t be solved rationally, because everyone who is actually rational already agrees with you. It’s a symptom of collective mental illness that needs to be addressed. For some reason a part of the US population is so afraid that they need guns to feel safe. They are simply put paranoid, either thinking that the government or other people are “out to get them”. When you try to take their guns away they freak out. You need to calm them down and make them feel safe first. To them the gun is “magic” and represents “safety” or “manliness” or something. You can’t reason with them rationally, they have a magic stick that they can kill you with, and they won’t let you have it because they’re afraid you’re going to kill them. I’m not sure what needs to happen for people to let go of their magic sticks. Obviously regular mass murder isn’t enough. And from what I understand the pro-gun politicians refuse to talk about it because that would be to “politicize” a tragedy. Which is pretty much the most retarded argument ever. When is the right time to talk about gun-control according to these people? Well obviously we have to wait for the mass murdering to stop before we can start talking about what to do about it… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/4 "2015-12-03T19:13:38Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > This latest incident seems to be linked to Middle East terrorism. This latest incident is atypical. Mass shootings are atypical. Most gun-violence is more pedestrian, done for profit or done from anger, and unrelated to either politics or mental illness; and most of it is done with handguns. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/5 "2015-12-03T19:16:04Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > This latest incident seems to be linked to Middle East terrorism. > > [Source](http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/san-bernardino-shooting/san-bernadino-shooting-suspects-left-baby-daughter-grandma-n473261) > > All the gun control on God’s green earth won’t protect from that, as witness France. It won’t protect you _perfectly_ but it will protect you. You _can_ get hold of a gun in almost every country in the world, but how easy it is seems to correlate very well with how often they are used. Kind of like how logic and economics works. If you have a free supply of guns and a culture based on fear then… massacres happen. Reduce the availability of guns or reduce the fear/hate in the culture if you want to reduce the amount of murder. Or why not be radical and do both. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/6 "2015-12-03T19:16:19Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > You can only take peoples guns away from them if you claw them from their cold dead hands _after_ they commit a school massacre. If you do it before that you are infringing on the rights of the ammosexuals and the gundamentalists. And as we know, my right to own a tool made specifically for killing humans fast an efficiently is more important than your right not to be shot by me when I lose my mind. > > It’s not a problem of rationality and can’t be solved rationally, because everyone who is actually rational already agrees with you. It’s a symptom of collective mental illness that needs to be addressed. For some reason a part of the US population is so afraid that they need guns to feel safe. They are simply put paranoid, either thinking that the government or other people are “out to get them”. When you try to take their guns away they freak out. You need to calm them down and make them feel safe first. To them the gun is “magic” and represents “safety” or “manliness” or something. You can’t reason with them rationally, they have a magic stick that they can kill you with, and they won’t let you have it because they’re afraid you’re going to kill them. > > I’m not sure what needs to happen for people to let go of their magic sticks. Obviously regular mass murder isn’t enough. And from what I understand the pro-gun politicians refuse to talk about it because that would be to “politicize” a tragedy. Which is pretty much the most retarded argument ever. When is the right time to talk about gun-control according to these people? Well obviously we have to wait for the mass murdering to stop before we can start talking about what to do about it… I am a gun owner, and do not ascribe any magical qualities to my firearms. Therefore, your claim is refuted. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/7 "2015-12-03T19:16:53Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > This latest incident seems to be linked to Middle East terrorism. > > \ > All the gun control on God’s green earth won’t protect from that, as witness France. Correct me if Im off base here but I’m pretty sure most gun deaths are not Middle East terror related. Look, the U.S. is never going to repeal the Second Amendment. So let’s face, you’re screwed if that’s your only solution. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/8 "2015-12-03T19:21:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I am a gun owner, and do not ascribe any magical qualities to my firearms. > > Therefore, your claim is refuted. I’m sure there are gun owners who are not ammosexuals or gundamentalists. And I don’t really care what sort of emotional or psychological relationship you have with yours, as long as you keep it away from me. What you and your gun gets up to in the safety of your own home is none of my business. If you say that you don’t feel the gun to be an extension of your penis or masculinity I will take your word for it. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/9 "2015-12-03T19:23:55Z")
No, the real problem is criminals and crazy people. Guns are not alive. They do not get out of bed one day, get dressed and walk out the door planning on shooting people. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/10 "2015-12-03T19:25:31Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > No, the real problem is criminals and crazy people. Guns are not alive. They do not get out of bed one day, get dressed and walk out the door planning on shooting people. I agree! The guns are the real victims here, being kidnapped and abused by criminals and crazy people. The only reasonable thing to do is to liberate these innocent handguns from their sick and abusive owners. ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/11 "2015-12-03T19:31:08Z")
The Boston Marathon bombers didn’t use guns they used pressure cookers should we put a ban on pressure cookers too??? People will end up buying black market weapons and this would only help supports illegal activities . ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/12 "2015-12-03T19:37:57Z")
> [@purplehearingaid](#): > > The Boston Marathon bombers didn’t use guns they used pressure cookers > should we put a ban on pressure cookers too??? People will end up buying black market weapons and this would only help supports illegal activities . Exactly. And some people get strangled by ropes, should we ban ropes? I’ve heard of people beating each other to death, should we ban fists? Feet? Or whole people? I guess if you really wanted to you _could_ make a point that a gun makes it a lot _easier_ to _kill lots of people_ than say… a rope. But that would be to invite nuance and reason, and as we all know the universe is completely black and white and has no room for nuance in it. Now I’d like a phase plasma rifle in the 40-watt range and directions to whatever place unprotected civilians like to hang out in big crowds. I feel some pent up anger and frustration and need a bit of release, if you know what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/13 "2015-12-03T19:57:29Z")
> [@](#): > > We won’t begin to get a handle on this until the 2nd Amendment is either repealed or reinterpreted to allow for some heavy regulation of handgun ownership/possession. And, it just so happens that there is provision for repealing an amendment in our system. We HAVE done the ‘heavy regulation of handgun’ thingy btw and it doesn’t seem to really do all that much. In DC for instance but most large cities have pretty heavy regulation to complete bans on handguns. The REAL problem, from the gun control/gun banners perspective is the 2nd…and the attitudes of the majority of Americans who don’t want bans on broad categories of guns, including hand guns. Trying to figure out how to get around those problems has been an ongoing process for the gun control types for decades now. They know they can’t get the 2nd repealed, and their attempts to reinterpret by fiat haven’t worked out all that well thus far, and really what’s been attempted have actually made it more difficult to get any sort of additional regulation put in an uphill battle, since most gun rights people don’t trust most of the gun control types any further than they can throw a dead horse. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/14 "2015-12-03T19:58:31Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > You can only take peoples guns away from them if you claw them from their cold dead hands _after_ they commit a school massacre. If you do it before that you are infringing on the rights of the ammosexuals and the gundamentalists. And as we know, my right to own a tool made specifically for killing humans fast an efficiently is more important than your right not to be shot by me when I lose my mind. > > It’s not a problem of rationality and can’t be solved rationally, because everyone who is actually rational already agrees with you. It’s a symptom of collective mental illness that needs to be addressed. For some reason a part of the US population is so afraid that they need guns to feel safe. They are simply put paranoid, either thinking that the government or other people are “out to get them”. When you try to take their guns away they freak out. You need to calm them down and make them feel safe first. To them the gun is “magic” and represents “safety” or “manliness” or something. You can’t reason with them rationally, they have a magic stick that they can kill you with, and they won’t let you have it because they’re afraid you’re going to kill them. > > I’m not sure what needs to happen for people to let go of their magic sticks. Obviously regular mass murder isn’t enough. And from what I understand the pro-gun politicians refuse to talk about it because that would be to “politicize” a tragedy. Which is pretty much the most retarded argument ever. When is the right time to talk about gun-control according to these people? Well obviously we have to wait for the mass murdering to stop before we can start talking about what to do about it… What a complete load of horseshit. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/15 "2015-12-03T20:04:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > However you define an “assault weapon,” it is not the real problem. Long-guns often are used in the mass shootings that get all the press – but most gun-crime in America is done with handguns for the simple reason that handguns are concealable. > > [Gun violence in the United States:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States) > > We won’t begin to get a handle on this until the 2nd Amendment is either repealed or reinterpreted to allow for some heavy regulation of handgun ownership/possession. Yep. Can’t argue with any of that. The mass shootings are the things that tend to trigger (no pun intended) efforts at gun control and they always fail, but it’s the everyday violence that should have us up in arms (pun intended that time). ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/16 "2015-12-03T20:08:49Z")
> [@purplehearingaid](#): > > The Boston Marathon bombers didn’t use guns they used pressure cookers > should we put a ban on pressure cookers too??? People will end up buying black market weapons and this would only help supports illegal activities . What about the people they shot? > **[MIT dedicates monument to Sean Collier - The Boston Globe](https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/04/29/mit-dedicate-monument-sean-collier-wednesday/E8aVcQXkrht6KO8D85VPFL/story.html)** > > The massive granite structure is a monument to the fallen officer’s dedication to the school that he served. > **[Watertown Police Officers Testify About Gunfight With Tsarnaev Brothers](https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/watertown-police-officers-testify-about-gunfight-with-tsarnaev-brothers/)** > > The Watertown police officers describe the firefight as less than ten minutes long - but among the most terrifying moments of their professional lives. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/17 "2015-12-03T20:32:29Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > Now I’d like a phase plasma rifle in the 40-watt range and directions to whatever place unprotected civilians like to hang out in big crowds. I feel some pent up anger and frustration and need a bit of release, if you know what I mean. Hey, just what you see, pal. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/18 "2015-12-03T20:33:24Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > No, the real problem is criminals and crazy people. Guns are not alive. They do not get out of bed one day, get dressed and walk out the door planning on shooting people. True and since the UK has far fewer crazy people and criminals than the US they have far fewer events like this. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/19 "2015-12-03T20:35:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yep. Can’t argue with any of that. The mass shootings are the things that tend to trigger (no pun intended) efforts at gun control and they always fail, but it’s the everyday violence that should have us up in arms (pun intended that time). Psychologically, everyday violence is less scary because it tends to be addressed towards a specific person or based on a specific location. As opposed to a mass shooter who walks into a random crowd and addresses his bullets “to whom it may concern”. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337/20 "2015-12-03T20:36:57Z")
Perhaps instead of regulating guns we could regulate the way guns are used. Perhaps make it illegal to shoot other people without a really good cause. I am surprised no one has thought of this. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-real-problem-is-handguns/739337.md?page=2)