# Let's Face It. The World As We Have Known It Is Coming To An End. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603 "2010-05-24T18:52:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/21 "2010-05-24T20:40:27Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Until someone comes up with a good reason for me to choose a pound uranium over 6 ozs of prime rib, pass the bisquits, please. Uranium tastes better. No, seriously, what the heck are you trying to say with this? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/22 "2010-05-24T20:45:31Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Until someone comes up with a good reason for me to choose a pound uranium over 6 ozs of prime rib, pass the bisquits, please. Try to fuel a power plant with those ribs. That sauce had better be damned spicy. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/23 "2010-05-24T20:46:52Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > No, seriously, what the heck are you trying to say with this? I predict a fascinating and enlightening explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/24 "2010-05-24T20:48:17Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Just for the sake a argument, name one. Seriously? Seriously? Assuming we’re just talking about cars, not, like, digital watches and such. [This wikipedia article on alternative fuel vehicles is a start](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_fuel_vehicle). Note that this article doesn’t include any technologies that haven’t been invented yet, these are all systems that actually exist. These things might cost more and offer worse perfomance than an IC vehicle, but the technology is already mature. The reason we don’t use these things on a wide scale right now is left as an excercise for the student. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/25 "2010-05-24T20:50:17Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > But forget about the oil expended in building these coal, nuke and hydro powered energy producers, HTF do you distribute it without petroplastic shielded wiring? In the 19th century, there were local power producers. Without plastic, they solved the ‘short’ problem by wrapping coarse extruded copper in cotton cloth and nailing the home leads (well separated) to wood plaques. I can imagine how they managed to set the distribution poles, hungry mules pulling them on site and hungry people with shovels setting them, I opine. Oil is the difference. > > Just for the sake a argument, name one. Can’t we also use [bioplastics](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioplastic) and [biofuels](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biofuel)? Some of the advances with [algae based biofuels](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel) are almost getting competitive with petroleum based fuels. (Note: sorry all my links are to wikipedia, but I am pressed for time and can’t be bother to find more scientific links. They do illustrate the point though.) We also have nuclear (as others have mentioned), solar, wind, geothermal, and hydroelectric power to fall back on in a pinch. Story time: I have a friend that works with US government services (mostly the Navy) examining questions like these. From what I hear, they are not really that worried about energy; there are solutions out there to replace our dwindling petroleum stocks. What they do worry about is water and food. How are we going to feed our growing population with the potential (probable) disaster of climate change? How are we going to get enough fresh water to provide all the varying interests when we may have droughts and large changes in rainfall patterns? These are the issues they worry about and they are paid to do nothing but worry about them. Energy is lower on their list though they are positioning themselves in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/26 "2010-05-24T20:56:50Z")
Good grief. Another Peak Oil end of the world thread. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Our present global consumer infrastructure has grown to where it is on a base of 150 years of cheap oil and is, along with the our global financial “system”, now entirely dependent on an exponential increase in demand upon this finite resource which is becoming increasingly more costly to extract I’d say that our prosperity (over that time period) is based more on coal than on oil, but that doesn’t work as well as a rant point, since we won’t be running out of coal anytime soon, right? And our ‘system’ isn’t entirely dependent on any kind of exponential increase in demand. Do you even know what an exponential increase in demand is? > [@](#): > > For reference, I offer this. , [http://www.informationclearinghouse](http://www.informationclearinghouse)…ticle25458.htm , a 70+ min video here presented in 8 parts. Described by one wag as the most boring yet most important video you have will ever see, it is required viewing for anyone who hopes to leave anything to their grandchildren, IMHO. Thanks, but no. After you’ve seen a couple dozen Peak Oil end of the world videos on the internet you pretty much have seen them all, and I seriously doubt there is going to be anything different in this one than in the other dozen I’ve seen. > [@](#): > > Peak Oil, whether you see it as here now or 50 years in the future is an obvious fact of life. Oil/fuel/food prices will eventually rise to a point where our present way of life will TOTALLY collapse into the 19th century. There will be no “technological advances” or “energy alternatives” that can possibly avoid this dramatic denouement. Did they have electricity in the 19th century? Or, where is the coal going to go? I won’t even get into your bald assertion that ‘technological advances’ or ‘energy alternatives’ (may which ALREADY exist), but where do you expect all the coal to go? Or, when you say 19th century technology, you don’t actually mean it, right? > [@](#): > > What will your 19th century world look like? When the grid finally goes down and the trucks stop rolling into Safeway and Walmart, where do you and your kids want to be? Why would the grid go down again? Are the laws of physics changing as well a la Dies the Fire? Will trains suddenly stop working? Will electricity stop working as well? > [@](#): > > At age 69, I’ll probably be out of here by the time the shit really hits the fan. Before my minimum SS retirement stipend is shit-canned and our “govt” loses all credibility, I expect to be in a happier place So, we are a good 30 years out before the end of the world (unless you are planning to shuffle off sometime soon of course)? No worries then. > [@](#): > > 1. Give.Up.Useless.Political.Rants and start talking about the need to communalize. That’s where I am at the moment. So, give up one useless and unnecessary thing and emphasize another useless, unnecessary course of action? Sounds like a plan. Howz’at workin’ out for you so far? > [@](#): > > 1. Move to a rural community with surface water and a decent agricultural climate and organize. There is still time to bring with you and stock up on some 21st century technology. Local solar and wind powered illumination and DC power tools, wifi and cell phone networks are, at the moment, not out of the question. Stores of Bic lighters, plastic shopping bags, PVC and penicillin would obviously be of benefit. All these will pass into history but by that time, perhaps, we will have learned to get by without them. But what will you do when the starving hordes descend on your ‘agrarian utopian fantasies’, as Der Trihs puts it? > [@](#): > > 1. Establish community greenhouses, encourage backyard gardens and chicken houses and create Commons for maintaining small herds/flocks of domesticated food and traction animals. Hire a blacksmith to run a smithy apprenticeship program thru the local high school. Encourage other towns in your bio region to join you. Because all the other technology is going to stop working, right? Well, maybe if you trek across the country you can find the Sword of the Lady and set all to rights…just watch out for the CUTers and those assholes in Boise, right? You’ll be fine, I’m sure. One thing I’d add to your list would be…long bows. Don’t forget the importance of long bows… > [@](#): > > Me, I’m outta here. God bless. I will address any serious apolitical questions. So, just a drive by post of a link and some new age bullshit coupled with Peak Oil apocalypse hand wringing, huh? -XT ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/27 "2010-05-24T21:08:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I live in the suburbs of a city. We have so much water available that we pump it directly from the ground in giant river fountains rather than pump it from the river. There are more trees per square foot than farm land and gardens are 1 growing season away from becoming the norm. Good point. And while you have some time to augment your valuable holdings by organizing locally and making the inevitable change to DC water pumping, stock up on our petrotechnology and hire a few cows and chickens for food and manure. Nonetheless, surface water is always easiest to reach. > [@](#): > > …the high cost of these technologies will come down to where it will be an everyday expense. Payable in potatoes, I expect. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/28 "2010-05-24T21:09:56Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I predict a fascinating and enlightening explanation. You would be misguided to depend on yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/29 "2010-05-24T21:13:41Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And at any rate, forget your agrarian utopian fantasies; you’ll just end up as the slaves of whatever warlord happens to be nearest and strongest. THAT’S IT. I’m going to warlord college and there’s nothing any of you can say to change my mind! ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/30 "2010-05-24T21:22:29Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > THAT’S IT. I’m going to warlord college and there’s nothing any of you can say to change my mind! No need, bro. Carry a plowshare instead of a sword and live well on 20 hrs/week, flexible schedule. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/31 "2010-05-24T21:23:01Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > You would be misguided to depend on yourself. True - the non-misguided know to rely on the inevitable continuance of the power grid and advancing technology. Only the misguided will gather a group of likeminded and plan to retreat from the rest of the world. ETA: Scissors beats paper, and sword beats plowshare every time. ETA2: Also, I hear that subsitence farming sans tractors is hard work. Where do you get 20 hrs per week? ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/32 "2010-05-24T21:26:05Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > … :rolleyes: -XT If this is your best, I have no further questions. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/33 "2010-05-24T21:29:21Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > No need, bro. > > Carry a plowshare instead of a sword and live well on 20 hrs/week, flexible schedule. Did you know hemp can be used to make rope and cloth and paper? The Founding Fathers grew hemp. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/34 "2010-05-24T21:29:31Z")
[QUOTE=adhay] If this is your best, I have no further questions. [/QUOTE] Ah…so, you were only able to read the rolley eye smiley and my name tag, ehe? Well, that’s sad but not particularly surprising. But then I wasn’t really posting in the expectation of engaging YOU…you said you were just driving by and wanted to simply toss out some Peak Oil and associated new age claptrappery, so I figured you wouldn’t be back. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/35 "2010-05-24T21:30:16Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Carry a plowshare instead of a sword and live well on 20 hrs/week, flexible schedule. > [@begbert2](#): > > ETA: Scissors beats paper, and sword beats plowshare every time. “You see in this world there’s two kinds of people my friend - those with swords, and those who dig. You dig.” ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/36 "2010-05-24T21:36:54Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] “You see in this world there’s two kinds of people my friend - those with swords, and those who dig. You dig.” [/QUOTE] Classic. It will be a shame when we can’t watch movies like this once the world comes to an end and we are living in a 19th century pre-technology utopia. ☹ On the up side, I guess the changing laws of physics will enable farmers to produce food orders of magnitude more easily than they can even today, considering that they will only have to work 20 hours a week AND on a flexible schedule… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/37 "2010-05-24T21:39:11Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Reported. Mods, bring down the hammer. I know nothing in this thread makes sense, but this doesn’t make sense. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/38 "2010-05-24T21:41:37Z")
[QUOTE=Attack from the 3rd dimension] I know nothing in this thread makes sense, but this doesn’t make sense. [/QUOTE] Actually, unlike the subject of the OP, this DOES make sense. But, you’d have had to have been following the OP’s thread on Lenin and his later thread in ATMB to get the connection, or what this thread actually is seemingly about… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/39 "2010-05-24T21:42:29Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > On the up side, I guess the changing laws of physics will enable farmers to produce food orders of magnitude more easily than they can even today, considering that they will only have to work 20 hours a week AND on a flexible schedule… Nah, it’s just that once they get to 20 hours they lose count, since they’ve run out of fingers and toes. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/40 "2010-05-24T21:43:42Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > If this is your best, I have no further questions. Can you answer begbert’s question, then? You know, the one about trading uranium for beef? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603.md?page=3)