# Let's Face It. The World As We Have Known It Is Coming To An End. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603 "2010-05-24T18:52:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/81 "2010-05-25T00:00:15Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Cite? Doesn’t cross-pollination require something a bit more closely related? This sounds about as likely as cross-breeding cows and chickens. We’ll be doing that too, of course. What do you think “local organization” means? ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/82 "2010-05-25T00:01:23Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Meh, it’s a work box and I’ve got an ipod. My computer at _home_ has sound, but it also has Portal Portal? My god, peak oil’s sent your technology back to 2007 levels! ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/83 "2010-05-25T00:05:09Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > Portal? My god, peak oil’s sent your technology back to 2007 levels! That and the fact that last week it was **free**. Which was surely part of a plot by that insidious peak oil. That tricky, tricky peak oil. It’ll be after our children next, I swear. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/84 "2010-05-25T00:06:16Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > I understand. All may post. > > OTOH, I cannot seriously address any contrary post without some reference to the video. > > With that in mind, play ball. Yeesh. I went and watched a couple of those videos, and my response is: SO WHAT? I understand exponential growth in our petroleum usage, and what it means as far as the new reserves we will have to find, but : SO FUCKING WHAT? We will not continue to have the same growth in petroleum production, and this guy assuming it will continue is idiotic. A couple of years ago when gasoline was around $4/ gallon, you could by a pickup truck for a couple of grand as people were buying fuel efficient cars. The usage of incandescent light bulbs has dropped by 50% in this country, driven by the increasing costs of our dwindling petroleum supplies. Gas/electric hybrids are among the most popular cars sold these days and soon we will have plug in hybrids on the roads. The amount of solar and wind generating power plants in the world is increasing at an exponential rate (oh noes, at this rate they will completely cover the earth in less than a hundred years :eek: ). Algae has been developed that can make bio diesel for less than $5 per gallon in salt water. These videos don’t take any of this into account. All he talks about is the fact that petroleum usage has been growing at 7% per year and this is not sustainable. Well, no shit. Any moron could have figured that out. I mean the initial screen of the second video says something about the population growing at 1.3%, and at that rate the mass of humans will equal the mass of the earth in 2000 years. Yeah, that’ll happen. This guys arguments are simplistic, and you, **adhay** , are obviously either completely incapable or unwilling to defend them in a debate. Why the hell did you start this thread if you are not interested in debating it? You should have stuck to the thread in the pit where at least we could have mocked you. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/85 "2010-05-25T00:08:57Z")
Be prepared! 🙂 All you need to know you’ll find in [_Revelation X: The “Bob” Apocryphon,_](http://www.amazon.com/Revelation-BobApocryphon-Hidden-Teachings-Deuterocanonical/dp/0671770063) Chapter 10, “X-Odus”: > [@](#): > > **B: FOR THOSE WHO “CHOOSE” TO STAY BEHIND:** > (i.e., SubGenii who “refuse to fall for it,” and never send in that $30) > > **SUPPLIES TO STOCKPILE:** > > We could go on and on about water purification tablets, first aid kits, spare batteries, shortwave radios, flashlights, candles, propane stoves, gas masks, toilet tissue, strong disinfectants, survival food tabs, MREs, freeze-dried crap, duct tape, baby formula, emergency ponchos, etc., but WHO ARE WE KIDDING?? The ONLY THINGS you’ll REALLY NEED are: > > **A. TONS OF GUNS and AMMO.** > Especially the ammo. Amateurs are always stockpiling guns, and forget the massive ammounts of ammo (casings, clips, powder, loaders) that’ll also be needed. > > **B. POUNDS OF CRACK COCAINE.** > Not for you! For your “soldiers.” > With the above, you will find it _easy_ to procure water, food, shelter, medicine, etc. > > **C. GALLONS OF LIQUID LSD.** > For _you,_ to keep you FANATICAL . . . to make you a LEADER! > > **HONE SURVIVALIST SKILLS** that those other so-called ‘complete survivalist manuals’ don’t mention. > > Learn how to deal with ANYTHING. Memorize science “fiction” movies like _Road Warrior._ The future will be _at minimum_ that bad no matter WHAT else happens on X-Day. Learn how to subsist on radiation. PLAN YOUR FOOD SUPPLY. Learn which _parts_ of your neighbors are edible. You might even consider starting an orphanage now, just to assure yourself a decent cache of meat when the need arises. Buy land and fence it – a real fence, the kind that’ll bring a tear to the eye of a Colombian druglord. Build two entrances: one heavily guarded main gate, and a hidden escape tunnel. Put a huge, well-lit, well-guarded, luxurious-looking house in the middle, and a small, comfortable, hidden house near the escape route. Live in the little secret house. During the insurrections of the End Days, you’ll be able to sit back, free from worry, and spend your spare time gunning down the panicked Normals who try to break in. Guaranteed fun for the whole family! ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/86 "2010-05-25T00:09:14Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > This guys arguments are simplistic, and you, **adhay** , are obviously either completely incapable or unwilling to defend them in a debate. Why the hell did you start this thread if you are not interested in debating it? You should have stuck to the thread in the pit where at least we could have mocked you. Actually he started this thread to _flee_ the pit, as per the above-linked thread. Not that he _started_ that thread in the pit, but there it was rapidly sent, in the mods’ prescient wisdom. Although come to think of it, that was probably a plot by peak oil too. Insidious, sneaky peak oil. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/87 "2010-05-25T00:09:57Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > We’ll be doing that too, of course. What do you think “local organization” means? Sorry, my sarcasmeter was on the fritz. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/88 "2010-05-25T00:11:45Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Sorry, my sarcasmeter was on the fritz. I got hit by that breeze too. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/89 "2010-05-25T00:18:32Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > \ Insidious, sneaky peak oil. Heh. I like it. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/90 "2010-05-25T00:57:34Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > … > This guys arguments are simplistic, and you, **adhay** , are obviously either completely incapable or unwilling to defend them in a debate. Why the hell did you start this thread if you are not interested in debating it? You should have stuck to the thread in the pit where at least we could have mocked you. I see them as simple and not really arguments. If you wish to question some particulars in his collected data (cite) and/or the conclusions I suggest that are easily drawn from them, debate on. Mock me, mock yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/91 "2010-05-25T01:03:44Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > I see them as simple and not really arguments. If you wish to question some particulars in his collected data (cite) and/or the conclusions I suggest that are easily drawn from them, debate on. > > Mock me, mock yourself. If you don’t want to make an argument I see no reason to keep this thread open. So if you’re not interested in supporting your views I’ll lock this thread soon. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/92 "2010-05-25T01:26:40Z")
All Utopian, back to the land, Sunday market food sharing, communal living solutions to the evils of modern society always leave out one cold, hard fact; before you get there several billion people on this planet will have to die. The global production network that produces food and goods in one area and then distributes those goods to other areas is what literally makes the world go 'round. People who advocate the back to the land plan usually don’t see themselves as religious fundamentalists. But the idea is very much a back to the garden of Eden plan, if only we could acknowledge our sins. Repent sinners! Come to Jesus! But be sure to walk, 'cause we’re almost out of oil. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/93 "2010-05-25T01:30:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You reported your own post and didn’t bother to clue us in about you want. I’m tempted to warn you and let you decide the reason. Instead, I’ll just ask you to explain the report. Do you want us to order people not to post in this thread unless they sit through the video? Because we can’t and won’t do that. When I read the post where he called for the Hammer of Moderation upon himself I thought I was hallucinating, or perhaps his enemies were so close he had to call in an air strike on his own position. At least now I know I’m not hallucinating. If only I could get my hands on some whale oil, everything would be OK, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/94 "2010-05-25T01:51:19Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > the computer I’m currently on _doesn’t have sound_. That’s just the beginning. Right now, most of us go through our day never giving a thought to the noises coming from our computers, radios, and people’s mouths. We just take it for granted. But a few, like you, are the unlucky "canaries-in-the-coalmine… caught up in foreboding signs of a grim, and very quiet, future. For years humankind has selfishly and heedlessly squandered a precious natural resource; behaving as if it would last forever. There were those of us who saw this coming and tried, in vain, to warn others. But you wouldn’t listen, you fools! You would not, or simply could not, face the fact that very soon, there will be nothing for you to listen to _at all_… ever again. **Peak Sound** is real!! I can prove this beyond any doubt!!! But first you must watch a few hours of woo-woo diatribe video (closed-captioned). Only then will you understand the situation and be capable of having an intelligent (but non-verbal) discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/95 "2010-05-25T02:05:07Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > When I read the post where he called for the Hammer of Moderation upon himself I thought I was hallucinating, or perhaps his enemies were so close he had to call in an air strike on his own position. Tokin’ arrow! ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/96 "2010-05-25T02:24:21Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > I see them as simple and not really arguments. If you wish to question some particulars in his collected data (cite) and/or the conclusions I suggest that are easily drawn from them, debate on. I and others have questioned his conclusions and you have ignored the posts. Do you have any comments on how the development of algae based biofuels pokes holes in his prophesies of doom? How about the exponential growth of solar and wind power worldwide? Personally, I don’t believe nuclear power is the panacea that many here do, but the gentleman in the videos seems to ignore the effects of nuclear power on our slide back into the dark ages, how do you feel about it? Why do you think we will be unable to keep an integrated society using electricity generated by wind, solar, and nuclear? Why do you think we will be unable to run fleets of cars, trucks, and trains (and tractors for that matter) using biodiesel that is only twice as expensive as petroleum based products now before economies of scale has lowered their costs? Why do you think that plastics made from switch grass and algae are not as good as those made from petroleum? You have not answered any of these questions, yet I have taken the time to tell you why I think his conclusions are bullshit. Mock indeed. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/97 "2010-05-25T03:01:07Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Reported. Mods, bring down the hammer. Sorry. If you need to stop seeing the sort of responses that this variety of thread elicits, stop posting these sorts of threads. ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/98 "2010-05-25T05:36:25Z")
Out of curiosity, I decided to watch the videos. I have to say, I think Bartlett is a good speaker and makes some good points. Interestingly, and perhaps not surprisingly, little he says connects with the OP’s thesis. Notably, Bartlett says nothing about returning to the 19th century as some sort of safe place. Rather, his point is that exponential growth can’t be sustained indefinitely. Whether or not this is true - Malthus said something similar - it’s fair to say that the solution to today’s problems may require sacrifices. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/99 "2010-05-25T07:53:55Z")
> [@PBear42](#): > > Out of curiosity, I decided to watch the videos. I have to say, I think Bartlett is a good speaker and makes some good points. Interestingly, and perhaps not surprisingly, little he says connects with the OP’s thesis. Notably, Bartlett says nothing about returning to the 19th century as some sort of safe place. Rather, his point is that exponential growth can’t be sustained indefinitely. Whether or not this is true - Malthus said something similar - it’s fair to say that the solution to today’s problems may require sacrifices. And my thesis is the sooner we start making them, the less onerous our transition to Post-oil will be. Bartlett says global Peak Oil will be here in the next 10-30 years, depending on reserve estimates. He also points out that our entire global infrastructure depends on and assumes an exponential increase in demand for oil each year and this demand is not sustainable. I do not believe our govt cares to admit the seriousness of the problem. Serious belt-tightening is never a popular political stand. As a result, most people have been lulled into thinking that by expanding oil extraction and driving more fuel-efficient cars, we’ll be fine even tho our economy requires us to put more and more of them on the road each year. And it is not only cars, it is every aspect our oil use that needs to expand if the world economy is to stay afloat. It simply cannot go on and a reckoning is coming. As **PBeard** pointed out, Bartlett does not suggest what the inevitable transition thru Peak to Post-oil will look like in it’s effect on everyday lives. It is my thesis that given our present lack of planning (or even acknowledgement of the extent of the problem), most will find it precipitous but prompt local action could ease the pain considerably. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603/100 "2010-05-25T08:27:54Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > ETA:. ETA what? ETA WHAT? Don’t just leave us hangin’, man! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-face-it-the-world-as-we-have-known-it-is-coming-to-an-end/540603.md?page=6)