# Let's get this over with... Charlie Hebdo Conspiracy Omnibus Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 15, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887 "2015-01-15T13:43:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/1 "2015-01-15T13:43:41Z")
Because if it’s on my facebook feed, why should any of you guys not have to see it? > **[Charlie Hebdo Shootings: False Flag?](http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/january/14/charlie-hebdo-shootings-false-flag/)** > > The Charlie Hebdo affair has many of the characteristics of a false flag operation. The attack on the cartoonists’ office was a disciplined... Essentially, people are citing as evidence: [ul] [li]That they dropped ID in their getaway car (you know, the old “there’s too much evidence, it must be planted” shit)[/li][li]That the police chief involved killed himself (because there’s no such thing as a coincidence, don’t you know!)[/li][li]That the brothers “seemed” bumbling and idiotic, in opposition to their professionalism earlier (whatever he hell that’s supposed to mean)[/li][li]That the attack did nothing to further Islam (you know, because radical terrorists always do things that make sense)[/li][li]That the younger suspect claims to have an alibi (even if he did, I guess we might have the wrong guy on that. The shooters remain the same)[/li][li]That they didn’t capture the terrorists alive (Yeah, this is a big surprise, heavily-armed gunmen with hostages don’t often get taken alive unless we want them to)[/li][li]Video seems to show [shooter being bound and unarmed when the special forces shot him](http://info.kopp-verlag.de/hintergruende/europa/gerhard-wisnewski/charlie-hebdo-mordverdacht-gegen-polizei-und-innenminister.html) (it’s almost impossible to see on the video, and it assumes things about reflexes that I’m not sure are fair to assume in a situation where someone gets shot)[/li][/ul] If only it were some insane neocons; apparently [the president of Turkey](http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-13/turkish-presidents-stunning-outburst-french-are-behind-charlie-hebdo-massacre-mossad) is saying this too. And certain figures in Russian politics. Great. The motivations are basically boilerplate false flag. Apparently it’s all to fan the flames of islamophobia and make the EU more willing to go to war in the middle east. Or for more anti-terrorism laws with the purpose of stripping away more freedoms. On a lighter note: the best thing I can say about these conspiracy theorists is that at least they don’t deny that the massacre happened. Thanks, Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theorists, for permanently lowering _that_ bar. So let’s just use this thread to talk about it. And try not to get depressed. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/2 "2015-01-15T15:15:11Z")
Yeah, I ran into a guy at uni who said the leftover ID seemed mighty suspicious. I suggested that (beyond the pedestrian “they fucked up” explanation) maybe these guys just didn’t care about being found or killed nor planned on surviving at all, what with the martyrdom angle pursued by Islamic terrorists in general. And that seemed to hold him for about half an hour. Regarding the specific article you linked : > [@](#): > > Clearly, France was showing too much foreign policy independence. The attack on Charlie Hebdo serves to cow France and place France back under Washington’s thumb. I’m not sure how that works. And what “clear” bothersome independence is he talking about ? We’re bombing ISIL with the rest of y’all, aren’t we ? We sent combat troops in Afghanistan, haven’t we ? Helped bomb Lybia ? Maybe he means our more lonesome operations in Mali, but then those are also conducted against islamist terrorists and Operation Serval involved the token logistical help of the US, so I’m officially confused. > [@](#): > > Some who think that they are experts will say that a false flag attack in France would be impossible without the cooperation of French intelligence. To this I say that it is practically a certainty that the CIA has more control over French intelligence than does the President of France. Operation Gladio proves this. The largest part of the government of Italy was ignorant of the bombings conducted by the CIA and Italian Intelligence against European women and children and blamed on communists in order to diminish the communist vote in elections. On the other hand, Danish and German intelligence agencies both rooted out American spies relatively recently. I’m also not quite sure how data from the 50s is indicative of modern conditions. At that rate, the false flag could just as well have been perpetrated by the KGB. Also Gladio was established with the consent and co-operation of high-ranking European authorities at the time, FFS. So make up your fucking mind, Paul Craig Roberts. Does the French government show too much independence and must be brought to heel, or are they secretly co-operating with the CIA to mumblemumblemumble PROFIT! ? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/3 "2015-01-15T15:17:52Z")
Just that first “”“fact”“”, > [@](#): > > {…} Usually Muslim terrorists are prepared to die in the attack; yet the two professionals who hit Charlie Hebdo were determined to escape and succeeded {…} 'Cause those two things have to be mutually exclusive! Annd that’s as far as I’m reading! CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/4 "2015-01-15T15:33:57Z")
Oh hey, apparently they’re denying that that cop died, because, and I quote, “there wasn’t any blood”. [http://aanirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/mossad-attacks-paris.html](http://aanirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/mossad-attacks-paris.html) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/5 "2015-01-15T17:10:28Z")
Honestly in this day and age if something like this turned out to be a false flag operation it really would not surprise me. That said extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. There will always be unknowns and question marks and coincidences around any event of note. That is a far cry from proving some conspiracy (beyond the one the terrorists admit to). There is nothing so far regarding these attacks that lead to a _reasonable_ suspicion they were anything other than they appeared. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/6 "2015-01-15T19:17:13Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Honestly in this day and age if something like this turned out to be a false flag operation it really would not surprise me. It would not surprise you if the French government conspired to murder 11 people including a police officer, staging it to look like an act of terror by Muslim French citizens? May I ask what recent events or characteristics of “this day and age” cause you to view this as an unsurprising scenario? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/7 "2015-01-15T22:23:10Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > It would not surprise you if the French government conspired to murder 11 people including a police officer, staging it to look like an act of terror by Muslim French citizens? > > May I ask what recent events or characteristics of “this day and age” cause you to view this as an unsurprising scenario? Do you really need a list of evil shit governments do to their own citizens? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/8 "2015-01-15T22:26:45Z")
Until I see 100,000 French troops sent into a country completely unrelated to the attacks, I’ll assume the official story. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/9 "2015-01-15T22:33:48Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Do you really need a list of evil shit governments do to their own citizens? If that’s the extent of your reasoning, then no, that won’t be necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/10 "2015-01-15T23:08:10Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Do you really need a list of evil shit governments do to their own citizens? You think governments are worse today than in the past? ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/11 "2015-01-15T23:55:03Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > It would not surprise you if the French government conspired to murder 11 people including a police officer, staging it to look like an act of terror by Muslim French citizens? > > May I ask what recent events or characteristics of “this day and age” cause you to view this as an unsurprising scenario? Perhaps a nitpick, but the cited article does not blame the French government. It is implied that the CIA would be able to pull it off without French Intelligence having any knowledge of it. Not that it makes the “evidence” any more convincing. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/12 "2015-01-16T02:21:03Z")
Off to IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![vomit\_comet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/73ab20/32.png) [@vomit\_comet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vomit_comet)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/13 "2015-01-16T02:32:05Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Because if it’s on my facebook feed, why should any of you guys not have to see it? > > [http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/january/14/charlie-hebdo-shootings-false-flag/](http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/january/14/charlie-hebdo-shootings-false-flag/) > > Essentially, people are citing as evidence: > > [ul] > [li]That they dropped ID in their getaway car (you know, the old “there’s too much evidence, it must be planted” shit)[/li][li]That the police chief involved killed himself (because there’s no such thing as a coincidence, don’t you know!)[/li][li]That the brothers “seemed” bumbling and idiotic, in opposition to their professionalism earlier (whatever he hell that’s supposed to mean)[/li][li]That the attack did nothing to further Islam (you know, because radical terrorists always do things that make sense)[/li][li]That the younger suspect claims to have an alibi (even if he did, I guess we might have the wrong guy on that. The shooters remain the same)[/li][li]That they didn’t capture the terrorists alive (Yeah, this is a big surprise, heavily-armed gunmen with hostages don’t often get taken alive unless we want them to)[/li][li]Video seems to show [shooter being bound and unarmed when the special forces shot him](http://info.kopp-verlag.de/hintergruende/europa/gerhard-wisnewski/charlie-hebdo-mordverdacht-gegen-polizei-und-innenminister.html) (it’s almost impossible to see on the video, and it assumes things about reflexes that I’m not sure are fair to assume in a situation where someone gets shot)[/li][/ul] > > If only it were some insane neocons; apparently [the president of Turkey](http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-13/turkish-presidents-stunning-outburst-french-are-behind-charlie-hebdo-massacre-mossad) is saying this too. And certain figures in Russian politics. Great. > > The motivations are basically boilerplate false flag. Apparently it’s all to fan the flames of islamophobia and make the EU more willing to go to war in the middle east. Or for more anti-terrorism laws with the purpose of stripping away more freedoms. > > On a lighter note: the best thing I can say about these conspiracy theorists is that at least they don’t deny that the massacre happened. Thanks, Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theorists, for permanently lowering _that_ bar. > > So let’s just use this thread to talk about it. And try not to get depressed. I knew I shouldn’t have clicked on this thread. So, if there is indeed a fence, which side of it are you on? I love a good conspiracy theory but I’ve had a couple of schnapps so I can’t make heads or tails of the intent of this post. BTW, I don’t watch CNN, BBC, or actually TV in general… ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/14 "2015-01-16T02:47:04Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Perhaps a nitpick, but the cited article does not blame the French government. It is implied that the CIA would be able to pull it off without French Intelligence having any knowledge of it. > > Not that it makes the “evidence” any more convincing. Aren’t the French our friends? If the CIA attacked another member of NATO, it would probably start World War 3. I know what the CIA did to Latin America, but there is no way we would open up Pandora’s box just to get cheap wine. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/15 "2015-01-16T03:46:20Z")
Dropping the ID is pretty silly and easy to see why it’s red meat for CTers. If that was used as a plot point in a story I’d roll my eyes. Real life doesn’t have to be realistic, though. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/16 "2015-01-16T03:54:33Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > If that’s the extent of your reasoning, then no, that won’t be necessary. Then what are you really asking me? Seems to me your question evinces incredulity that a government would ever harm its own citizens. I can come up with ample examples where they do. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/17 "2015-01-16T03:57:26Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > You think governments are worse today than in the past? Worse? Maybe not “worse” although that is subjective and wide open. Still, even if they are not “worse” that does not make them “good” by any stretch of imagination. They can and will do awful things to their own citizens and I do not mean banning Big Gulps. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/18 "2015-01-16T04:42:26Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Worse? Maybe not “worse” although that is subjective and wide open. > > Still, even if they are not “worse” that does not make them “good” by any stretch of imagination. They can and will do awful things to their own citizens and I do not mean banning Big Gulps. It’s certainly subjective but few rational people would put today’s governments (as a whole) as worse than previous years. We (in the US as well as globally) have never lived in a more free and liberal society and the governments reflect that. I’m not sure why you keep putting “worse” in quotes. ---
**Author:** ![vomit\_comet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/73ab20/32.png) [@vomit\_comet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vomit_comet)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/19 "2015-01-16T05:13:23Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > You think governments are worse today than in the past? Define “the past” Who do you think developed the directed energy weapons in the last 50 years, the remote mind reading technology, and if they can read minds remotely, they can also write to them, destroy them etc. Who do you think they are using them against? the reason programs like MKultra and Guantanamo Bay aren’t heard of anymore is because they have been compartmentalized and have gone dark. They no longer have to physically have captive, a person, to torture them, they can lobotomize a victim with directed energy weapons. Do you think the US hired all the NAZI scientists in the 40’s and 50’s because they were good boyscouts and could start a fire with a couple of sticks and a shoestring? They haven’t been sitting on their goddamned asses for the last 60 years. ---
**Author:** ![vomit\_comet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/73ab20/32.png) [@vomit\_comet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vomit_comet)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887/20 "2015-01-16T05:58:14Z")
What I’m trying to say is this; Their cover letter of their resume has one line on it and it says the following: “proficient at torturing and killing millions of people” US Government says: Great, You’re hired! Need I say more? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-get-this-over-with-charlie-hebdo-conspiracy-omnibus-thread/709887.md?page=2)