# Let's Go 106 M.P.H. on a Sharp Curve. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 14, 2015, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997 "2015-05-14T02:52:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/61 "2015-05-16T12:40:55Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > This should be investigated and treated the same as terrorism. Do they looked closer as to why something happened if it may be due to terrorism? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/62 "2015-05-16T13:06:01Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Do they looked closer as to why something happened if it may be due to terrorism? Huh? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/63 "2015-05-16T13:20:14Z")
> [@Leffan](#): > > This should be investigated and treated the same as terrorism. I don’t believe either is investigated more thoroughly than the other. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/64 "2015-05-16T13:20:32Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Do they looked closer as to why something happened if it may be due to terrorism? I imagine more departments would be involved, FBI and CIA? Interpol? Counter Terrorism Bureau? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/65 "2015-05-16T13:44:12Z")
> [@JustinC](#): > > I imagine more departments would be involved, FBI and CIA? Interpol? Counter Terrorism Bureau? Not Interpol, certainly. I think the NTSB will investigate and turn the results over to local police or the FBI to determine if a crime was committed. I don’t think the CIA operates in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/66 "2015-05-16T14:36:38Z")
While something may have hit the windshield there is no indication it breached the cabin. I’ve had rocks hit my car and as long as the safety film in between the glass isn’t breached then nothing changes. Per the NTSB the train was going over 80 mph 43 seconds prior and over 100 mph 16 seconds prior to the accident. So that means it accelerated 20 mph in 27 seconds which is the time frame engineers have to respond to a continuous timer alert to demonstrate they’re awake. They could easily zone out and hit the button twice without thinking about it. Commercial pilots fall asleep or zone out all the time and learn to listen to their call sign. They have the redundancy of 2 people. Also in the news, ALL tracks in the US were mandated years ago to have the interactive system in place to stop this kind of accident. Obviously this section of track hasn’t been completed. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/67 "2015-05-16T14:53:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Also in the news, ALL tracks in the US were mandated years ago to have the interactive system in place to stop this kind of accident. Obviously this section of track hasn’t been completed. The mandate was years ago, but the deadline is the end of 2015. The deadline will probably need to be extended, but it’s worth noting that Amtrak has made a lot more progress on PTC than most of the freight railroads. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/68 "2015-05-19T15:43:48Z")
How the heck does “Holy shit, a concrete block just hit my windshield” translate to “press the accelerator as hard as I can”? Yes, a hit to the windshield can distract the driver of a vehicle. This is very dangerous if you’re driving a car. But a train is on rails, there’s no steering involved. Even if you hit the accelerator because you’re distracted, a few seconds later you put on the brakes. The train was going 100 16 seconds before the crash. That wasn’t because the engineer was distracted by a sudden windshield strike. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/69 "2015-05-19T16:21:06Z")
> [@SeldomSeen](#): > > Couple o’ things… Railroads - and their operating employees - are federally regulated. Local law enforcement has little or no jurisdiction over right-of-way, equipment or on-duty personnel. The engineer was absolutely right to refuse to answer questions from local LEO’s, was probably under standing orders to that effect. Local cops reportedly seized his cell phone, an illegal act in itself. One railroad that I’ve had experience with instructs their engineers in the event of a grade crossing accident that unless there is imminent danger such as fire they are not to leave the locomotive and to stay within railroad property and give no statements to anyone until relieved by a railroad official or federal regulator. This also applies to giving specimen samples for drug testing. These must be given to railroad officials or federal investigators, not to police. It annoys local cops to discover their authority is less than total, and there have been several cases of threats and forcible arrests of operating personnel, actions that local police departments usually have cause to regret. > > Per the Amtrak NEC timetable, there is a 65 mph curve (all mains) about 1.9 miles west of the derailment location. Track speed increases to 80 on the straightaway before the 50 mph curve where they derailed. > > It appears the Amtrak engineer accelerated out of the 65 curve and never throttled back when hitting 80. There is a report that a SEPTA commuter train was struck by rocks or bullets in the area of the 65 mph curve just minutes before the Amtrak train passed through. [This image](http://www.altamontpress.com/discussion/read.php?1,117785,117801#msg-117801) of the aftermath of the crash shows possible rock or bullet damage to the engineers-side windshield. It is not unlikely that this train was struck as well, and that the impact stunned, blinded or otherwise disabled the engineer just as he should have begun decelerating / braking for the curve ahead. > > This rush to judgement is to be expected from the media. What surprises me is that there are so many Dopers (including legal and LEO types) who are so quick to jump on the bandwagon. In the train accidents I have been involved with we did not talk to the engineers. Conrail and Amtrak have their own police forces. And they were welcome to it. I don’t know which agency took the phone or if it was with consent but I would like to know how you think it was illegal? Police are allowed to seize evidence, especially perishable or easily destroyed evidence. Without consent or a warrant they shouldn’t attempt to look at the contents. There is [no evidence of a bullet](http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/18/us/philadelphia-amtrak-train-derailment/index.html) hitting the train. They have not ruled out that it could have been hit by another object. A SEPTA train had called in to his dispatch that he had been struck by an object. The Amtrak engineer did not report being struck. The SEPTA engineer did not talk to the Amtrak engineer. An object may have been the cause of the distraction but it still looks like a distraction was the cause of the accident. It is overwhelmingly likely that the engineer was at fault. There is a wide gulf between “at fault” and “criminally negligent.” I would be surprised if it is found to be a criminal act. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/70 "2015-05-19T16:56:03Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > How the heck does “Holy shit, a concrete block just hit my windshield” translate to “press the accelerator as hard as I can”? Yes, a hit to the windshield can distract the driver of a vehicle. This is very dangerous if you’re driving a car. But a train is on rails, there’s no steering involved. Even if you hit the accelerator because you’re distracted, a few seconds later you put on the brakes. The train was going 100 16 seconds before the crash. That wasn’t because the engineer was distracted by a sudden windshield strike. What, in your mind, do you think happened that caused the accident? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/71 "2015-05-19T17:27:38Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > What, in your mind, do you think happened that caused the accident? I have absolutely no idea. But the “I got distracted by a rock on the windshield so I accidentally held down the gas for a couple of minutes” scenario doesn’t make any sense. A rock crashing into a vehicle can cause an accident, if a few seconds of distraction or mistaken responses to strike could cause an accident. This is why in a car it is very serious, people slam on the brakes or swerve off the road. What drivers in a car don’t do after being hit by a rock is jam on the gas and leave it floored for a couple of minutes. If the accident on the train was caused by a distraction at some sort of critical decision point, then it would make sense. But the accident was caused by the train accelerating for a long time until it was going too fast to stay on the tracks. That’s not a few seconds of distraction. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/72 "2015-05-19T17:37:15Z")
This conversation is starting to sound like those about people who accidently leave their kids baking to death in the car. People screw up. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/73 "2015-05-19T18:14:29Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > People screw up. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/74 "2015-05-19T18:43:11Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > It is overwhelmingly likely that the engineer was at fault. There is a wide gulf between “at fault” and “criminally negligent.” [Case in point](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/nyregion/no-charges-for-engineer-in-2013-fatal-metro-north-derailment.html). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/75 "2015-05-19T20:13:57Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > [Case in point](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/nyregion/no-charges-for-engineer-in-2013-fatal-metro-north-derailment.html). Yes that is exactly what I was thinking. Also, although it is not 100% analogous, I used to be a fatal accident investigator. Often even when at fault a driver would be cited with motor vehicle summonses rather than criminal offenses because it was determined that their level of culpability did not rise that level. Every action that results in someone’s death is a criminal act. All the contributing circumstances must be examined. There are often more than one cause that combine to make the accident happen. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/76 "2015-05-19T20:58:23Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Yes that is exactly what I was thinking. Also, although it is not 100% analogous, I used to be a fatal accident investigator. Often even when at fault a driver would be cited with motor vehicle summonses rather than criminal offenses because it was determined that their level of culpability did not rise that level. \*\*Every action that results in someone’s death is a criminal act. \*\*All the contributing circumstances must be examined. There are often more than one cause that combine to make the accident happen. Bolding mine. I \*suspect \*you inadvertently left a “not” out of the bolded area. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/77 "2015-05-19T21:07:17Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Bolding mine. I \*suspect \*you inadvertently left a “not” out of the bolded area. Yes I did. I could abuse my mod powers and fix my typo but I’ll just leave it there. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/78 "2015-05-19T22:24:17Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > What, in your mind, do you think happened that caused the accident? fell asleep? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/79 "2015-05-20T01:15:43Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Yes I did. I could abuse my mod powers and fix my typo but I’ll just leave it there. You show great restraint, Sir. I applaud you! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997/80 "2015-05-20T01:29:43Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > [Case in point](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/nyregion/no-charges-for-engineer-in-2013-fatal-metro-north-derailment.html). Who woulda guessed sitting in a little box staring out into space doing almost nothing makes people nod off. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-go-106-m-p-h-on-a-sharp-curve/719997.md?page=5)