# Let's hope Michael Moore doesn't become a Doper **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 1, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046 "2004-10-01T16:00:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/21 "2004-10-01T18:58:47Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Well, I’m a Democrat and I think he’s right. Democrats in office have let right-wingers/conservatives/Republicans walk all over them and fuck around with this country. It’s been downright disgusting to see. The most recent examples are the Yay votes for confirming a deeply, deeply disturbing asshole like Porter Goss as head of the CIA, and this (cut and pasted from something I sent my husband): This was a superb piece of political railroading by the Republicans, as any congressperson who refused to vote for a resolution celebrating the heroism of the victims and rescuers of 9/11 would be asking to be defeated on November 2. We’re into the world of soundbites and nuances again. While a reasoned nay vote on this resolution could only be explained in a relatively complex sentence that brought up the Iraq tie-ins, all the Republicans have to do is yell “He voted against the firefighters! He voted against the firefighters!” and they can step right into office. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/22 "2004-10-01T19:01:49Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Um, just to remind you of what was actually in the OP, if he came here to Straight Dope, for free or otherwise, blustering about his rights to free speech and how the First Amendment “gives everyone here the right to say whatever they want to say”, it would be a problem for the mods. I suspect that perhaps something other than the OP might be the agent that is confusing you. I understood that part of it, it was too stupid not to. I didn’t understand why you seemed so scornful that Moore would “drag his nasty ass” there anyway to speak. As if he didn’t have the right to go speak anywhere in public he fucking well pleases. You’re not being a very good Libertarian, it seems to me. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/23 "2004-10-01T19:03:25Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > This was a superb piece of political railroading by the Republicans, as any congressperson who refused to vote for a resolution celebrating the heroism of the victims and rescuers of 9/11 would be asking to be defeated on November 2. We’re into the world of soundbites and nuances again. While a reasoned nay vote on this resolution could only be explained in a relatively complex sentence that brought up the Iraq tie-ins, all the Republicans have to do is yell “He voted against the firefighters! He voted against the firefighters!” and they can step right into office. Yep, that’s EXACTLY what it was, which is why I have such intense admiration for the 16 who voted against it. They’re true American patriots. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/24 "2004-10-01T19:25:44Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > I understood that part of it, it was too stupid not to. I didn’t understand why you seemed so scornful that Moore would “drag his nasty ass” there anyway to speak. As if he didn’t have the right to go speak anywhere in public he fucking well pleases. You’re not being a very good Libertarian, it seems to me. Good libertarians don’t recognize so-called public property. But Moore apparently believes all property is public, including casinos and colleges. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/25 "2004-10-01T19:47:10Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Good libertarians don’t recognize so-called public property. :smack: Of course! I completely forgot one of the things that makes you guys so damned scary. Pardon me. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/26 "2004-10-01T19:52:09Z")
Yeah, if we eliminated eminent domain and asset forfeiture, God only knows what could happen. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/27 "2004-10-01T19:57:08Z")
Wait, “scary” was the wrong word. You’d only be scary if there were any chance in hell that one of your guys would get anywhere near the Presidency within the next several centuries. Since that event falls under the “snowball in hell” definition, the correct term would be closer to “loony-tunes.” Pardons again. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/28 "2004-10-01T19:59:57Z")
**Liberal:** _Um, just to remind you of what was actually in the OP, if he came here to Straight Dope, for free or otherwise, blustering about his rights to free speech and how the First Amendment “gives everyone here the right to say whatever they want to say”, it would be a problem for the mods._ In other words: The rules of this message board are more restrictive than the First Amendment. Some of the things that Michael Moore is allowed to say in other venues would not be permitted here. There isn’t a **DUH** in the universe large enough to respond adequately to that absolutely underwhelming observation. **Liberal:** _Good libertarians don’t recognize so-called public property._ That seems to imply that good libertarians use only private property that they have received explicit contractual permission to use. Makes you wonder how good libertarians ever manage to cross a street! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/29 "2004-10-01T20:06:06Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Good libertarians don’t recognize so-called public property. But Moore apparently believes all property is public, including casinos and colleges. How sad that such things exist. Recognize it or not the law of the land applies you old revolutionary. But you gotta pull off the revolution before the rules get changed. And your OP contains a fallacy. GMU is public property (admit it). The SDMB is NOT public property. Besides, I don’t see what the big deal is. He wants to protest let him protest. What’s that line from Dave Sim? “Where opposition is tolerated it becomes quaint. Where it is oppressed it becomes dangerous.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/30 "2004-10-01T20:11:03Z")
**"Let’s hope Michael Moore doesn’t become a Doper"** Oh, I dunno. I’ve been curious about how the “ignore” thingy works. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/31 "2004-10-01T20:15:22Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Good libertarians don’t recognize so-called public property. And that is why some of the rest of us don’t want to have anything to do with a silly philosophy that would lead to freedom of speech only for those who have the money to afford the property to speak on! > [@](#): > > And while you’re at it, let everyone know what he said about Democrats: Here’s another Democrat who is saying “Good for him!” We need some people around making sure that the Democrats don’t just become the Republicans-Lite. (And, judging from most of what I have heard him saying, he, unlike Ralph Nader, seems to better understand when it is useful to criticize the Democrats and when it is more useful to focus one’s ammunition more at Bush and Company.) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/32 "2004-10-01T20:20:07Z")
Oh, goody, I get to cherry pick the pile-on. Oh, here’s a gem: > [@](#): > > And that is why some of the rest of us don’t want to have anything to do with a silly philosophy that would lead to freedom of speech only for those who have the money to afford the property to speak on! Yeah, I reckon you prefer a more rational philosophy that would empower people like John Ashcroft and Janet Reno to tell you where you can and cannot speak. You think you have free speech on so-called public property? Take a “Bush sucks” sign to his next rally. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/33 "2004-10-01T20:23:33Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > I don’t know, **Lynn** would kick his ass if he was a jerk on this board. I’d buy a ticket to see that. Hell, I’d buy two! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/34 "2004-10-01T20:24:19Z")
I’m not even piling on. I’m just saying that claiming that ‘good’ libertarians don’t recognize something that manifestly exists in the here and now is foolish. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/35 "2004-10-01T20:34:57Z")
**Liberal:** _Oh, goody, I get to cherry pick the pile-on._ When **three** people tell you you’re drunk… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/36 "2004-10-01T21:20:26Z")
Now, don’t be modest, Kim. You count as three all by yourself. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/37 "2004-10-01T22:25:06Z")
> [@Shirley Ujest](#): > > I’ll go a goose-step farther: I would pay for front row seats in a cage match between **Lynn “The Mod” Bodoni** and **Michael " Troll" Moore**. Call me when you’ve got the **Moore vs. Liberal** ticket. I’d give 5-1 odds on Mike, easily. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/38 "2004-10-02T00:23:16Z")
I agree that **Michael Moore** would make a terrible Doper. That doesn’t mean that he’s bad at what he does, and it doesn’t mean that the liberal movement in America isn’t lucky to have him. And it in no way means that he deserves the venom that **Liberal** constantly spews at him (the best example being lib’s long rant about the deceptive “parallel editing” of the infamous 7 minutes, in which it was claimed that MM took 7 minutes of footage, cut a shorter section out of it, and then edited that section to make it seem longer than it really was!) **Al Franken** , on the other hand (from my reading), would make an excellent doper. Similarly, **Ann Coulter** and **Bill O’Reilly** would make terrible dopers, but **George Will** and (I suspect) **John McCain** would make fine dopers. **Michael Savage** would be banned so fast that it would make his head spin. Except that as I strongly suspect he’s possessed by an evil demon (nothing else could explain his level of hate-spewing ignorance), his head may already frequently spin. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/39 "2004-10-02T00:30:24Z")
I can’t believe you would equate Franken with the likes of Will and McCain, **Max**. I can’t imagine either of them writing a book – and making public appearances spewing the viewpoint – that someone on the other side was a “Big Fat Idiot.” He is much, much more along the lines of Coulter and O’Reilly, although I can’t really imagine even them saying such things either. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046/40 "2004-10-02T00:36:10Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > I can’t believe you would equate Franken with the likes of Will and McCain, **Max**. I can’t imagine either of them writing a book – and making public appearances spewing the viewpoint – that someone on the other side was a “Big Fat Idiot.” > > He is much, much more along the lines of Coulter and O’Reilly, although I can’t really imagine even them saying such things either. Your politics are showing, SA. Franken is a comedian, thus the “big fat idiot” stuff. But more to the point, Franken has not based his entire public career on his skill as a liar, as have O’Reilly and Coulter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-hope-michael-moore-doesnt-become-a-doper/267046.md?page=3)