# Let's just bypass the BCS: Who plays for the MNC? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 20, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570 "2011-11-20T19:49:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/1 "2011-11-20T19:49:52Z")
Given the top 8 teams in the traditional polls: AP Top 25 RK TEAM RECORD PTS 1 LSU (60) 11-0 1500 2 Alabama 10-1 1440 3 Arkansas 10-1 1376 4 Stanford 10-1 1224 5 Oklahoma State 10-1 1206 6 Virginia Tech 10-1 1133 7 Boise State 9-1 1025 8 Houston 11-0 1018 USA Today Poll RK TEAM RECORD PTS 1 LSU (59) 11-0 1475 2 Alabama 10-1 1413 3 Arkansas 10-1 1349 4 Virginia Tech 10-1 1242 5 Stanford 10-1 1222 6 Oklahoma State 10-1 1156 7 Houston 11-0 1075 8 Boise State 9-1 982 and limiting your vote to THE TWO you want to see in the Championship game, who do you want to be there? Public poll on the way ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/2 "2011-11-22T15:27:04Z")
I’ve set this poll to stay open until mid-December so here’s how things look(ed) after 10 voters: ```auto LSU 10 100.00% Alabama 4 40.00% Arkansas 0 0% Stanford 3 30.00% Oklahoma State 2 20.00% Virginia Tech 1 10.00% Boise State 0 0% Houston 0 0% Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 10. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/3 "2011-11-24T04:21:27Z")
I was hoping this would get to 20 voters, but here’s how it looks after 17: ```auto LSU 14 82.35% Alabama 6 35.29% Arkansas 0 0% Stanford 4 23.53% Oklahoma State 4 23.53% Virginia Tech 1 5.88% Boise State 2 11.76% Houston 3 17.65% Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 17. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/4 "2011-11-24T04:40:45Z")
LSU-Bama II: Trophy Boogaloo Assuming that LSU beats Arkansas and wins the SEC, and that Bama beats Auburn. If Arkansas beats LSU, or LSU loses the SEC Championship game AND Auburn beats Bama, it’s a mess. Somebody from the SEC gets in, probably against OK State (if they beat OK) or Stanford (if they win the PAC 12). Houston can forget it. They have zero chance of playing for the National Championship. If OK State, Stanford, LSU and Bama all lose, VT or Boise State may sneak in there…assuming neither of them get upset… ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/5 "2011-12-02T19:31:17Z")
Another benchmark: ```auto Which two teams should play for the National Championship? This poll will close on 12-20-2011 at 01:52 PM LSU 22 88.00% Alabama 10 40.00% Arkansas 0 0% Stanford 5 20.00% Oklahoma State 4 16.00% Virginia Tech 1 4.00% Boise State 2 8.00% Houston 6 24.00% Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 25 ``` ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/6 "2011-12-02T19:47:01Z")
I got suckered into watching the LSU and Alabama ver. 1.1, and I know for a fact I don’t want to see that bad of a quarterback and offensive play again. Give me a team with a great offense (Stanford?) to go up against that LSU defense. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/7 "2011-12-02T20:29:04Z")
It’s a tough question. Objectively speaking, I think Alabama is probably the second best team in the country. As such, they deserve to play in the BCS title game. But emotionally, I feel another team should get a crack at the Tigers. Why would I want to watch the same matchup again when we could see something new? Aesthetically, I have absolutely no desire to see that sort of defensive slugest. Finally, having another team in the game at least gives a chance that we won’t be subjected to another 6 months of “SEC! SEC!” If Alabama makes the game, the outcome is assured. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/8 "2011-12-02T20:40:45Z")
I want to see LSU lose a controversial championship game and still be voted #1. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/9 "2011-12-02T20:45:12Z")
I don’t oppose the BCS because I (necessarily) disagree with their assessment of the best teams. Sure, SOMETIMES I disagree with them vehemently (I didn’t think either LSU or Ohio State deserved to be in the final matchup, a few years back). But even when I’m inclined to agree with their rankings, I still hate the BCS. This year, my personal “Eyeball Test” tells me that LSU probably IS the best team in college football, and that Alabama isn’t far behind them. But you see, my objection has NEVER been that their opinions sometimes conflict with my own. My objection has always been that opinions are a stupid way to pick champions! Would baseball fans sit still for a system in which a computer chose the top two teams at the end of the season and put them in the World Series? Would NFL fans go along with a system in which a computer decided the Packers should play the Ravens in the Super Bowl (leaving the 49ers, Patriots and Steelers to gripe, “Hey, why not give US a chance?”). Right now, LSU and Alabama _ **are** _ probably the best teams, in my opinion. But screw my opinion! Screw the coaches’ opinions! Screw the writers’ opinions! I want to see the top teams play each other! Any other system is bogus, even when it ends up picking the team I prefer as national champion. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/10 "2011-12-02T20:53:41Z")
LSU is in, obviously (3 people didn’t vote for them?), and I picked Stanford even though Alabama is probably the better team. Sorry Tide, you had your shot. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/11 "2011-12-02T21:26:15Z")
Why Stanford and not OK State? Stanford seems to have played a much softer schedule so far this year. Their wins of note are @ Washington (7-5), @ USC (10-2), vs. Cal (7-5), and vs. Notre Dame (8-4). Oklahoma State has wins @ Tulsa (8-4, but C-USA), @ Texas (7-4), @ Missouri (7-5), vs. Baylor (8-3), vs. Kansas State (9-2), and to be considered for the BCS game, vs Oklahoma (which would finish 9-3). The BCS standings seem to back this up, in that OK State is much high ranked in the computers than Stanford (in fact, a virtual push with Alabama in the computers) probably due to its superior SOS. ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/12 "2011-12-02T21:36:16Z")
reposted from another thread: [QUOTE=divemaster] As a die-hard LSU fan and general SEC homer (except for Florida), I would much rather LSU have the opportunity to strut their stuff against Oklahoma State or Stanford.\*\*\* That would be a showcase game. Could Heisman candidate Luck solve the LSU defense? Would OSU put up 4 TDs? It looks like we’ll never know. I know a lot of folks don’t want to see [LSU/Alabama] again, for the very good reason already mentioned in these threads (Bama had their chance at home and blew it–give someone else a try). However, a lot of people seem to not want to see it becasue “the game was boring.” I hope LSU gets to put that one to rest. **They actually do have a pretty good offense and I don’t believe the Bama game was a representative sample of what they are capable of**. We actually do have a downfield passing game (not that you’d know it from that game). [/QUOTE] \*\*\*I voted Stanford b/c of the “Luck” factor. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/13 "2011-12-02T21:42:15Z")
I voted for LSU and Alabama. I think the evidence says those are the best teams, and at this point the voters could not be clearer in saying LSU is the #1 team and Alabama is #2. So it will be interesting to me to see if they’re really going to commit to that or if they’re going to put TV ratings and a general sense of ‘they had their shot’ over their supposed mission of putting the best two teams in the championship game. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/14 "2011-12-02T21:47:55Z")
> [@markdash](#): > > Why Stanford and not OK State? Because OK State lost to Iowa State, a 6-5 team that by most measures, sucks. And Stanford lost to Oregon, a 10-2 team ranked in the top 10. Plus, I’d rather see a pro style offense led by Andrew Luck against that LSU defense than the spread offense, we’ll win because we have better athletes, of OK St. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/15 "2011-12-02T21:48:03Z")
Another checkpoint with 10 votes inside of 2 hours! ```auto Which two teams should play for the National Championship? This poll will close on 12-20-2011 at 01:52 PM LSU 32 91.43% Alabama 13 37.14% Arkansas 0 0% Stanford 10 28.57% Oklahoma State 5 14.29% Virginia Tech 1 2.86% Boise State 2 5.71% Houston 7 20.00% Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 35 ``` ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/16 "2011-12-02T22:21:26Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Because OK State lost to Iowa State, a 6-5 team that by most measures, sucks. And Stanford lost to Oregon, a 10-2 team ranked in the top 10. > > Plus, I’d rather see a pro style offense led by Andrew Luck against that LSU defense than the spread offense, we’ll win because we have better athletes, of OK St. I’m just curious why you measure the ability of team by the team that defeated them, as opposed to the teams they have defeated. By your rationale, if a team played all creampuffs but lost to LSU, they would be better than a team that beat a bunch of heavyweights but lost to any team other than LSU. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/17 "2011-12-02T22:36:56Z")
> [@markdash](#): > > I’m just curious why you measure the ability of team by the team that defeated them, as opposed to the teams they have defeated. > > By your rationale, if a team played all creampuffs but lost to LSU, they would be better than a team that beat a bunch of heavyweights but lost to any team other than LSU. It’s silly to ignore either one. Who a team lost to and who a team beat are both important for a determination. In the case between OKST and Stanford, I think the fact that OKST lost to a bad team, while Stanford lost to a top 10 team is a major factor. So is SoS, but it’s not the only thing to look at. OKST didn’t exactly schedule powerhouses in Louisiana Lafayette and Tulsa either for their non-conference schedule, so I’m not really impressed by those games. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/18 "2011-12-03T00:01:11Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > My objection has always been that opinions are a stupid way to pick champions! > > … > > I want to see the top teams play each other! I long ago accepted that people just vehemently disagree with me about this, but I want to point out that “top” is an opinion. If your objection really is that you don’t want a subjective evaluation to determine who gets to play for a national championship, you just kind of can’t be a fan of college sports. Expanding the pool of who gets to be considered the top from 2 to 4 or 8 doesn’t alleviate the “problem” you’ve identified, it just lets us kick it down the road a bit more. If what you said is a fair representation of what you believe, there’s no system that would satisfy you. Even the NCAA basketball tournament is influenced greatly by opinion every year. It’s not less determined by opinion; just differently determined by opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/19 "2011-12-03T00:02:19Z")
Not until you get everybody to play a similar schedule, anyway, and that’s not possible given the hugeness of the conference. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570/20 "2011-12-03T00:28:57Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > It’s silly to ignore either one. Who a team lost to and who a team beat are both important for a determination. In the case between OKST and Stanford, I think the fact that OKST lost to a bad team, while Stanford lost to a top 10 team is a major factor. So is SoS, but it’s not the only thing to look at. OKST didn’t exactly schedule powerhouses in Louisiana Lafayette and Tulsa either for their non-conference schedule, so I’m not really impressed by those games. Odd you would mention the non-conference schedule, since this is hardly a positive for Stanford either, what with their tilts against San Jose State and Duke. If you wanted to delve further into each team’s loss, I would argue that Stanford’s blowout loss at home was even worse than OK State’s overtime loss on the road. You seem to differ; that’s fine, but even if you give Stanford extra credit for losing to a top 10 team, OK State should get a lot of credit for having a tougher schedule. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-just-bypass-the-bcs-who-plays-for-the-mnc/603570.md?page=2)