# Let's look to the Nazis regarding immigration **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 15, 2006, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814 "2006-05-15T08:54:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/21 "2006-05-15T18:55:07Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Quoted from John Aravosis: > > We’re now taking the hysteria over the war on terror and turning it into a rather disturbing and familiar war against another race. George Bush and the Republican party have so terrorized the American people, made them so full of fear and hate, that the American people are starting to take it out on the “others” in our society, with the very happy collusion of our government. Our government is thinking of using the military to deal with this “problem” in our midst. Vigilante citizens groups are patrolling the country to find these others among us. Web sites are being set up to expose the companies among us who harbor these un-Americans. The #1 news channel for Republicans is calling on white people to have more babies to stop Hispanic from taking over “our” country. > Does nobody understand who and what our country is turning into? We are talking about Mexican-Americans, central Americans, and their families and friends here people. We’re not taking Al Qaeda, we’re not talking Martians. We’re talking rather normal people who all of us know. And George Bush and the Republican party have whipped this country into such a frenzy about these people that we’ve got vigilante justice taking place and talk of involving the military to - what? - shoot them? > What the hell is going on in our country? How can the majority of Americans not see what we’re becoming, and what we’ve already become? Are we so proud of ourselves, and so blindly confident of the permanence of our freedoms, that no one can even fathom the slightest possibility that those freedoms could ever be in jeopardy? Let alone fathom what those freedoms are even supposed to mean? How about this? If you want to come to this country, do so legally, and you’re more than welcome. MORE than welcome. If not, **STAY THE FUCK OUT!** Jesus, is that so hard? When this issue comes up all we hear is the canonization of people who are, by their voluntary actions, choosing to become criminals. It’s sickening. The first duty of a sovereign nation is to secure it’s borders. We’re failing miserably at that. They have no _right_ to be here, coming here is a _privilege_ that we are granting them. I’m all for granting them that privilege, as long as they follow the legal means in place to do so. If they want to try and sneak across the border like common thieves, I got no problem with the armed forces of the U.S. doing their job and defending our borders with force, that’s what you do against invaders after all. If I tried to sneak into Mexico, I would fully expect them to shoot me down, and they would have every right to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/22 "2006-05-15T19:06:38Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > How about this? If you want to come to this country, do so legally, and you’re more than welcome. MORE than welcome. If not, **STAY THE FUCK OUT!** Jesus, is that so hard? When this issue comes up all we hear is the canonization of people who are, by their voluntary actions, choosing to become criminals. It’s sickening. The first duty of a sovereign nation is to secure it’s borders. We’re failing miserably at that. They have no _right_ to be here, coming here is a _privilege_ that we are granting them. I’m all for granting them that privilege, as long as they follow the legal means in place to do so. If they want to try and sneak across the border like common thieves, I got no problem with the armed forces of the U.S. doing their job and defending our borders with force, that’s what you do against invaders after all. And do you recommend shooting the people who employ them as well, or is only poor brown people you want to murder ? ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/23 "2006-05-15T19:12:09Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > If I tried to sneak into Mexico, I would fully expect them to shoot me down, and they would have every right to do so. Why would you expect that? Where do you get the idea that we are uncivilized barbarians? There are laws concerning use of deadly force and sneaking across the border isn’t a justification for shooting anyone. Get your head out of your ass. ---
**Author:** ![DxZero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DxZero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DxZero)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/24 "2006-05-15T19:15:47Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > If I tried to sneak into Mexico, I would fully expect them to shoot me down, and they would have every right to do so. So, death is proper punishment for crossing some arbitrary line on a map? That’s not excessive, in your opinion? Pray tell…what other crimes(see I can underline too!) do you think deserve the death penalty? Stealing candy? Jaywalking? Staring too long at the sun? Please share. I’m ever so anxious to hear what you think! ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/25 "2006-05-15T19:21:15Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I agree that George Bush personally is probably not at all anti-Hispanic, just as he personally is probably not at all anti-Muslim. And because of his ties to the business constituency, he even favors a number of policies that are friendly to Hispanic immigrants, just as he favors a number of policies that are friendly to Muslim countries such as Dubai or Saudi Arabia… > > Similarly, he exploits the rhetoric of nativism and anti-Hispanic prejudice when it suits him (saying that the “Star-Spangled Banner” shouldn’t be sung in Spanish, for example). But then he puts forth his business-friendly proposals of guest worker programs and amnesty, which not surprisingly raise hackles among nativists and their ilk. > > What do you think he’ll say in his speech tonight? I predict a great flourish about sending the National Guard to patrol the border and lots of tough talk about cracking down on criminals and keeping America American, but no pledges that would actually conflict with his ambitions to maintain ample access for American businesses to low-wage Hispanic workers in one form or another. I think he has jumped on the nativist bandwagon recently. when his approval ratings tanked. I was actually kind of surprised that he made the comment about the national anthem. I’d always been somewhat impressed by his efforts to reach out to Hispanics (not bad for a Republican, anyway). But the Anti-Hispanic sentiment has been building for quite some time. I have to agree with **Weirddave** , although I’m not as easily sickened. It is important to control immigration. I don’t have a problem with people exposing companies that employ illegal aliens. I do have a problem with this new, William McKinley wing of the Democratic Paty that extols the virtues of having workers with no protections, no minimum wage, no minimum age, no limits on the length of the workday, and no safety regulations. What the hell have we been fighting for for three fucking generations? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/26 "2006-05-15T19:22:50Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > How about this? If you want to come to this country, do so legally, and you’re more than welcome. MORE than welcome. If not, **STAY THE FUCK OUT!** Jesus, is that so hard? Just simply follow the law. Seems simple. Seems easy. > [@](#): > > “Immigration law is a mystery and a mastery of obfuscation, and the lawyers who can figure it out are worth their weight in gold.” > > - CIS spokeswoman Karen Kraushaar. > > “Immigration law is very complex.” Castro-O’Ryan v. INS, 847 F.2d 1307, 1312 (9th Cir. 1988) > > “With only a small degree of hyperbole, the immigration laws have been termed ‘second only to the Internal Revenue Code in complexity.’ A lawyer is often the only person who could thread the labyrinth.”. E. Hull, Without Justice For All 107 (1985). > > "Immigration laws bear a “striking resemblance …[to] King Minos’s labyrinth in ancient Crete. The Tax Laws and the Immigration and Nationality Acts are examples we have cited of Congress’s ingenuity in passing statutes certain to accelerate the aging process of judges.” Lok v. INS, 546 F.2d 37, 38 (2d Cir. 1977) > > “This case vividly illustrates the labyrinthine character of modern immigration law-a maze of hyper-technical statutes and regulations that engender waste, delay, and confusion for the Government and petitioners alike. The inscrutability of the current immigration law system, and the interplay of the numerous amendments and alterations to that system by Congress during the pendency of this case, have spawned years of litigation, generated two separate opinions by the District Court, and consumed significant resources of this Court. With regret and astonishment, we determine, as explained more fully below, that this case still cannot be decided definitively but must be remanded to the District Court, and then to the Board of Immigration Appeals (“BIA”), for further proceedings.” Drax v. Reno, 338 F.3d 98, 99-100 (2d Cir. 2003) Gee. Lawyers and judges can’t understand the laws, but it’s simple for any untrained day laborer to understand and obey. > [@Weirddave](#): > > If they want to try and sneak across the border like common thieves, I got no problem with the armed forces of the U.S. doing their job and defending our borders with force, that’s what you do against invaders after all. If I tried to sneak into Mexico, I would fully expect them to shoot me down, and they would have every right to do so. OK, which would you suggest? machine gunning, or napalm? ---
**Author:** ![Spezza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Spezza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spezza)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/27 "2006-05-15T19:46:46Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > However, I wonder if he’s considered that rounding up one class of people is almost impossible outside of a police state. How quickly we forget about the internments of (Japanese) citizens during World War II. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/28 "2006-05-15T19:48:42Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > And do you recommend shooting the people who employ them as well, or is only poor brown people you want to murder ? Actually, asshat, I do, more or less, and I resent your implied racism when you have no evidence that anything I’ve said is race based at all. Not shooting, because hiring an illegal is not nearly as severe as invading a foreign nation, but heavy fines and jail time are required. One of the things we need to do to stop the problem is to remove the incentive for illegals to cross the border. A lack of jobs would have a positive effect in that direction. A Constitutional amendment modifying Section 1 of the 14th amendment and subsequent Supreme Court reversal of _United States v. Wong Kim Ark_ would be even better. > [@CBEscapee](#): > > Why would you expect that? Where do you get the idea that we are uncivilized barbarians? Gee, maybe if I had that idea, it might have come from your passionate defense of every Mexican’s right to assault U.S. Border Patrol officers using deadly force. > [@CBEscapee](#): > > There are laws concerning use of deadly force and sneaking across the border isn’t a justification for shooting anyone. Again, using deadly force in an attempt to illegally enter the U.S. is just ducky in your world, but using deadly force to prevent people from illegally entering the U.S. is a crime against humanity. Hypocrite. How about this? Would you be OK with the U.S. employing the exact same methods against Mexican illegals crossing our border as you guys use against people illegally crossing your southern border? > [@SteveG1](#): > > Just simply follow the law. Seems simple. Seems easy. > > Gee. Lawyers and judges can’t understand the laws, but it’s simple for any untrained day laborer to understand and obey. If you want to modify and simplify immigration law, that’s a separate issue, one that I actually support, but just because a law is complicated or inconvenient does not give one the right to ignore it. > [@SteveG1](#): > > OK, which would you suggest? machine gunning, or napalm? Snipers. Much, much more cost effective. Clear the border of all vegitation for 1/2 mile on our side of the border and put sniper towers with night vision every 500 yards. Q.E.D. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/29 "2006-05-15T19:52:09Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > When you overthrow all legitimate terrestrial governments, install puppet rulers in their place, and set yourself up as God-Emperor, don’t forget to shut down worldnetdaily. Remind me AFTER I’m God-Emperor. > [@](#): > > I have a hard time even thinking about this guy seriously. He meanders off into incoherence a little too frequently. However, I wonder if he’s considered that rounding up one class of people is almost impossible outside of a police state. I don’t think the folks at WND would see that as a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/30 "2006-05-15T19:58:36Z")
The guy _looks_ like one of those rebellious teens who sympathize with Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/31 "2006-05-15T19:59:48Z")
> [@Skald the Rhymer](#): > > Remind me AFTER I’m God-Emperor. Oh, sure. I’m gonna be the guy that points out that you screwed up and forgot something. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/32 "2006-05-15T20:11:19Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Gee, maybe if I had that idea, it might have come from your passionate defense of every Mexican’s right to assault U.S. Border Patrol officers using deadly force. > > Again, using deadly force in an attempt to illegally enter the U.S. is just ducky in your world, but using deadly force to prevent people from illegally entering the U.S. is a crime against humanity. Hypocrite. How about this? Would you be OK with the U.S. employing the exact same methods against Mexican illegals crossing our border as you guys use against people illegally crossing your southern border? I wouldn’t expect you to be able to comprehend the difference between the action of one individual and official sanctioned violence by a government. That requires an IQ of at least 80 I would guess. The abuses on our southern border are not State sanctioned nor do you read on Mexican message boards assholes like yourself promoting human rights violations. People here are very much against such abuses. ---
**Author:** ![DxZero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DxZero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DxZero)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/33 "2006-05-15T20:19:39Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > I resent your implied racism when you have no evidence that anything I’ve said is race based at all. Whether true or not, advocating the wholesale murder of a certain group of people is always going to sound like racism. And I’m sorry if you think its so terrible, but crossing a border is not justification for murder. EVER. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/34 "2006-05-15T20:51:19Z")
> [@DxZero](#): > > Whether true or not, advocating the wholesale murder of a certain group of people is always going to sound like racism. > > And I’m sorry if you think its so terrible, but crossing a border is not justification for murder. EVER. And what “certain group” do these people belong to that makes me a racist? “ **People who attempt to illegally sneak across the border into the U.S.** ” Because that’s who I’m talking about. And I’m sorry, but if you try to illegally enter another soverign country, then you have no right to bitch if they use force to keep you out. Do it together with a bunch of your friends and it’s what’s called an “invasion”. I’m sorry if getting shot seems harsh to you, but it’s very easy to avoid: Don’t invade another country. Quite simple. The blame lies upon the person breaking the law, not on the people defending their country against intruders. ---
**Author:** ![DxZero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DxZero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DxZero)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/35 "2006-05-15T21:01:05Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Do it together with a bunch of your friends and it’s what’s called an “invasion”. I’m gonna assume you know why that’s a stupid statement and just move on. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/36 "2006-05-15T21:18:23Z")
For years now there’s been a problem with underage Americans coming across the border and getting drunk and behaving obnoxiously. They have absolutely no respect for our laws and this can set a very dangerous precedent. If a country doesn’t make foreigners obey its laws then it will soon lose control of its own populace. So I say shoot the little scoflaws. No more underage drinkers puking in our gutters. Put 'em all up against a wall. Boom. Leave their bodies there as a warning to the next pimply faced little gringo that thinks our laws are a joke. I’m sorry, but if you illegally drink in another soverign country, then you have no right to bitch if they use force to keep you in line. Do it together with a bunch of your friends and it’s what’s called “spring break”. I’m sorry if getting shot seems harsh to you, but it’s very easy to avoid: Don’t drink while underage in another country. Quite simple. The blame lies upon the person breaking the law, not on the people defending their country against invasions of scoflaws. Thanks a bunch weirddave for the solution. No more puny fines and a slap on the wrist. It’s time we get serious. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/37 "2006-05-15T21:33:09Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > And I’m sorry, but if you try to illegally enter another soverign country, then you have no right to bitch if they use force to keep you out. Do it together with a bunch of your friends and it’s what’s called an “invasion”. 😕 **Weirddave** , whadderyou, nuts? An “invasion” is when **the government-controlled military forces** of one sovereign nation enter and attempt to take control of another. A group of illegal migrants looking for work across the border is not an “invasion” in any meaningful sense of the term, although it may figure as such in hysterical Minuteman-type rhetoric. Seriously, calm down, dude. I agree with you that illegal immigration is wrong and burdensome (for everybody involved) and should be better controlled. But for fuck’s sake, shooting people on sight just because they stepped across the border isn’t going to solve anything. It would only lead to appalling miscalculations and the inevitable human-rights catastrophes that taint everybody and everything even remotely associated with the policy. You want high-school history students fifty years from now reading in their textbooks how public outrage over the 2007 Laredo Massacre was a decisive factor in the first Presidential victory of Hillary Clinton? Didn’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/38 "2006-05-15T21:43:53Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > For years now there’s been a problem with underage Americans coming across the border and getting drunk and behaving obnoxiously. They have absolutely no respect for our laws and this can set a very dangerous precedent. If a country doesn’t make foreigners obey its laws then it will soon lose control of its own populace. So I say shoot the little scoflaws. No more underage drinkers puking in our gutters. Put 'em all up against a wall. Boom. Leave their bodies there as a warning to the next pimply faced little gringo that thinks our laws are a joke. > I’m sorry, but if you illegally drink in another soverign country, then you have no right to bitch if they use force to keep you in line. Do it together with a bunch of your friends and it’s what’s called “spring break”. I’m sorry if getting shot seems harsh to you, but it’s very easy to avoid: Don’t drink while underage in another country. Quite simple. The blame lies upon the person breaking the law, not on the people defending their country against invasions of scoflaws. > > Thanks a bunch weirddave for the solution. No more puny fines and a slap on the wrist. It’s time we get serious. Well, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander, isn’t it? Fair is fair. I suggest towers, manned by trained marksmen. (wink wink) ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/39 "2006-05-15T22:33:38Z")
Man, I must be clairvoyant. I was sitting there thinking, “I wonder when **Weirddave** will show up demanding that we shoot all the wetbacks”, and whaddya know? BTW, I presume that following this line of thinking, the Dave of Weird would agree that WEST Germany, as well as East Germany, should have shot persons attempting to cross the Berlin Wall. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2006, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814/40 "2006-05-15T22:39:06Z")
Ooo! Could we machine-gun the American tourists in _our_ country, too? Not the nice ones, the ones who do bad things like break the law. Of course, it will be immediatly be made illegal to wear socks and sandal together, to speak in a loud American accent in a semi-public place (like a restaurant- for God’s sake, keep your voices down), to fail to show even a modicum of knowledge and/or respect of the history of Britian…hmm, methinks I should start a new thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-look-to-the-nazis-regarding-immigration/356814.md?page=3)