# "Let's lose with Joe!" what the 2020 campaign slogan should be **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 15, 2020, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820 "2020-04-15T03:58:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/141 "2020-04-16T20:05:22Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Okay, you’re missing my point. And using official “socialist” party numbers are ridiculous. Obviously Bernie’s support base is greater than people who officially vote for a “socialist” party, Bernie isn’t even socialist, and that data point makes no sense. > > But, to my greater point: Progressives are told “you have two choices, you have to grow up and make the right decision. You have to vote. You have to vote democrat. Doesn’t matter who. If you don’t, you’re voting for Trump” > > And if someone decides they don’t want to do that because they don’t support the democratic party or their candidate, they’re absolutely flamed for it. People go on a vitriolic diatribe about entitled unreasonable progressive voters demanding perfection, blah blah. People hate the people who wouldn’t vote for Biden. > > But those same people turn around and say “you can’t nominate Bernie, old democratic voters won’t vote for him!” and this is treated as normal, acceptable, and without vitriol, with no blame or hatred directed at the people who wouldn’t vote for Bernie. > > Why aren’t those old democratic voters scared for Bernie getting lectures about how we have to vote blue no matter who, that they supprot Trump if they won’t vote for Bernie in the general, and all that? Why aren’t they getting the same vitriol for being expected to refuse to vote for the candidate? > > If anyone says “if we nominate Biden, you’ll scare off progressives”, the response is “those fucking stupid ass Bernie bro entitled kids need to grow their ass up and realize that they have to vote blue no matter what or they love Trump”, if someone says “If we nominate Bernie, you’ll scare off the old democrats”, that’s just treated as reasonable, prudent, and the fault of Bernie and not the scared old democrats. > > In other words, progressives who doubt Biden are getting a completely different treatment than establishment democrats who doubt Bernie. I’m not making up the part about Sanders being a socialist. I remember Sanders way back when he was Mayor of Burlington (I grew up in the area). Sanders was a member of the Socialist Party and ran as a Socialist. It’s not just something the Republicans are making up. If Sanders had won the primaries and was heading for the nomination, I would be preparing to vote for him and telling other people they needed to vote for him. You can look back at my posts from a few months ago when he was leading the race and I was saying the same thing. But that’s the past. It’s no longer a case of telling anyone we should support Biden because he’ll get more votes than Sanders. We had the primaries; Biden had gotten more votes than Sanders. It’s no longer just a prediction. Biden ran. Sanders ran. Other candidates ran. And voters picked Biden. So now is the time for the people who supported those other candidates to accept what happened and support the candidate who won. It’s no longer a choice between Biden and Sanders; it’s a choice between Biden and Trump. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/142 "2020-04-16T20:30:05Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I’ve been doing this my entire life. I’ve supported candidates that didn’t win in the general, then held my nose and voted for my party’s candidate. I’m from the generation that considers doing that to be a civic duty. > > And the moderate candidates I’m supporting now are way more progressive than the progressive candidates of my youth. > > But I don’t think that electing a progressive revolutionary is going to gain you anything in terms of progressive public policy at this time. Changing out the guy at the top is useless if you don’t have a strong base of progressive leaders below him. Concentrate on building that base. Elect progressives to state and local offices. Elect more congressional reps like AOC. Flip state governments and enact progressive policy, like what is happening in Virginia. Elect progressive judges. Conservatives have been doing this for years and it’s been very successful for them. > > And if you can’t get the guy you really want in, you need to help us push back the tide of conservatism. Because it’s not more of the same. Because if Trump wins in 2020 and you get a progressive in 2024, you’re not getting free college and universal healthcare. Your candidate is going to be facing challenges like making sure every American citizen has access to a loaf of bread once a week. Challenges like fighting off the Chinese Army when they come to repossess Fort Knox. Challenges like keeping actual sewage out of the drinking water. > > And there’s one other lesson you need to learn from the Trump/ Republican saga. In order to be a strong advocate for a position, you do not have to believe that position yourself. “Representative” is a job title, a career, a skill set. If your biggest concern is how sincerely your candidate really believes in the positions they advocate rather than how effectively they can be in enacting them, you aren’t going to get candidates that can win. A little Machiavellianism goes a long way in politics and if you destroy good candidates over ideological purity, you aren’t going to get candidates that can win. > > Because you’ve got to play the game you’re playing, not the one you think you should be playing. The rules suck, but crippling yourself by adhering to the rules as they should be in a kind and just world is suicide. “A vote is a chess move, not a love letter”, I read recently. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/143 "2020-04-16T20:37:31Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > “A vote is a chess move, not a love letter”, I read recently. Here’s the thing. Let’s say, hypothetically, the democrats could find someone that’s just 1% better than Donald Trump. Easily the second worst possible president of the United States, but just a tiny bit better than Trump. Should we vote for that man enthusiastically? After all, he’s better than Trump. And what if we did this for 10 elections in a row? They keep fielding a guy who is a bad candidate, who is a bad leader, and will take this country in the wrong direction, but he’ll take the country in the wrong direction slightly less than the other guy? Well, our chess move says that the guy who fucks things up a tiny bit less. So you can spend your life voting for the guy who’s the lesser of two evils, and consenting to your country being moved in the wrong direction your entire life, because you “have to” use your vote as a chess move at any time. That gives the people who run the parties, the only people who really have control over what candidate they run, complete control over the direction of the country, and you’re playing into their exact goal and manipulation by continually voting for their chosen lesser of two evils candidate. They can make you move the country in a direction you hate every time, with a series of decisions that, in each one, the “responsible” thing is to vote for the lesser of two evils. And yet the overall result of this series of actions has been the result of evil your entire life. What do you do? Keep the country moving in a direction you don’t want it to move your entire life, convinced that each vote was the correct chess move? Such a strategy means you’ve been manipulated into going exactly where they want you to go, against your desires, but with your consent. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/144 "2020-04-16T20:45:30Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Here’s the thing. Let’s say, hypothetically, the democrats could find someone that’s just 1% better than Donald Trump. Easily the second worst possible president of the United States, but just a tiny bit better than Trump. Should we vote for that man enthusiastically? After all, he’s better than Trump. > > And what if we did this for 10 elections in a row? They keep fielding a guy who is a bad candidate, who is a bad leader, and will take this country in the wrong direction, but he’ll take the country in the wrong direction slightly less than the other guy? Well, our chess move says that the guy who fucks things up a tiny bit less. > > So you can spend your life voting for the guy who’s the lesser of two evils, and consenting to your country being moved in the wrong direction your entire life, because you “have to” use your vote as a chess move at any time. > > That gives the people who run the parties, the only people who really have control over what candidate they run, complete control over the direction of the country, and you’re playing into their exact goal and manipulation by continually voting for their chosen lesser of two evils candidate. They can make you move the country in a direction you hate every time, with a series of decisions that, in each one, the “responsible” thing is to vote for the lesser of two evils. And yet the overall result of this series of actions has been the result of evil your entire life. > > What do you do? Keep the country moving in a direction you don’t want it to move your entire life, convinced that each vote was the correct chess move? Such a strategy means you’ve been manipulated into going exactly where they want you to go, against your desires, but with your consent. Yet another thing I hate about Sanders. This whole lie about the ‘party elites’ gathering in a secret lair and anointing a candidate. Sanders has had 5 years to get his stupid ideas out and they’ve been resoundingly rejected. People aren’t buying what he’s selling. We don’t want a fucking revolution no matter how bad you do. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/145 "2020-04-16T20:59:29Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Here’s the thing. Let’s say, hypothetically, the democrats could find someone that’s just 1% better than Donald Trump. Easily the second worst possible president of the United States, but just a tiny bit better than Trump. Should we vote for that man enthusiastically? After all, he’s better than Trump. > > And what if we did this for 10 elections in a row? They keep fielding a guy who is a bad candidate, who is a bad leader, and will take this country in the wrong direction, but he’ll take the country in the wrong direction slightly less than the other guy? Well, our chess move says that the guy who fucks things up a tiny bit less. > > So you can spend your life voting for the guy who’s the lesser of two evils, and consenting to your country being moved in the wrong direction your entire life, because you “have to” use your vote as a chess move at any time. > > That gives the people who run the parties, the only people who really have control over what candidate they run, complete control over the direction of the country, and you’re playing into their exact goal and manipulation by continually voting for their chosen lesser of two evils candidate. They can make you move the country in a direction you hate every time, with a series of decisions that, in each one, the “responsible” thing is to vote for the lesser of two evils. And yet the overall result of this series of actions has been the result of evil your entire life. > > What do you do? Keep the country moving in a direction you don’t want it to move your entire life, convinced that each vote was the correct chess move? Such a strategy means you’ve been manipulated into going exactly where they want you to go, against your desires, but with your consent. Honestly, are you this tiresome IRL? Because you’re fucking exhausting on the internet. If you believe that Biden is 1% better than Trump, stay home or vote by filling in on the blank line. But for the love of god quit your fucking whining and the constant bending of reality to your own twisted world view. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/146 "2020-04-16T21:09:05Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > But those same people turn around and say “you can’t nominate Bernie, old democratic voters won’t vote for him!” and this is treated as normal, acceptable, and without vitriol, with no blame or hatred directed at the people who wouldn’t vote for Bernie. I’ve said that Sanders supporters should support the nominee regardless of who it is. I pointed out that Sanders would have lost the general because he lacks support (or is actually viewed unfavorably) by key groups. I did NOT say “We can’t nominate Sanders because old people won’t vote for him”. This is now, after the primary process is over. There is no “We can’t nominate…” because the nomination is sewn up. Had Sanders won the primaries, I would be telling people who refused to vote for him that they should be doing so, same as I’d be doing the reverse. But a number of those people still aren’t going to do so and alienating a major voting bloc like older voters hurts even more then alienating young voters who make it to the polls in much smaller numbers. So, regardless of how many Boomers I say “You should vote Democratic anyway” to, the overall effect would still be a Sanders loss. More to the point, my bringing up Sanders’ poor showing among key demographics (minorities, older voters, moderates, etc) isn’t “We can’t nominate Sanders!” because, again, it’s over. Done. Not happening. My point was to shoot down the fanciful notion that, just because Sanders lost the primary (twice) , he was totally for-reals going to win in a general election. ---
**Author:** ![RealFDRdem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac8455/32.png) [@RealFDRdem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealFDRdem)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/147 "2020-04-16T21:14:04Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Or, to put it another way, why is it that progressives always have to give up their values and fall in line and vote for someone they don’t like, but people supporting the “moderate” conservative establishment corporate candidate never have to suck it up and vote for a progressive? The “they’ll scare away these voters!” narrative only is ever used to favor the establishment candidates. > > We can’t nominate Bernie, because he might scare away establishment voters. But we can nominate Biden just fine, even if he scares away progressive voters, because fuck them and it’s their own fault and they better fucking fall in line or they personally suck Trump’s dick. > > Why is that? Tell it Brother!!! ---
**Author:** ![RealFDRdem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac8455/32.png) [@RealFDRdem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealFDRdem)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/148 "2020-04-16T21:16:36Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Because voter opinions are a bell curve, and bell curves are always a lot bigger towards the middle. Actually voter opinions are dynamic, something you so-called “centrists” never seem to get. Especially in the middle of a campaign, and especially during a big crisis. Candidates that show leadership ability can fundamentally change the dynamic, conversation, and voting patters in a substantial way. “Centrists” seem to believe the American electorate is frozen in place and frozen in time. ---
**Author:** ![RealFDRdem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac8455/32.png) [@RealFDRdem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealFDRdem)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/149 "2020-04-16T21:18:16Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > In case you don’t remember, Shitbag Sanders got his ass kicked in the primaries, especially in 2020. The voters have sent a message that we don’t want his fucking revolution. > > Yes, some crybaby progressives will whine and tweet until their thumbs fall off about how they’re not going to vote for Biden. And they can fuck themselves. Pandering to the most fickle of voters is never a good strategy. Half of those shitters didn’t even turn out for Bernie in the primary and would be the most unreliable voters in November even with Bernie as the nominee. Maybe they’ll vote, maybe they’ll stay home, maybe mommy will make them a hot pocket and they’ll smoke a bowl. Wow, and it’s progressives that are the obstacle to party unity:smack: ---
**Author:** ![RealFDRdem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac8455/32.png) [@RealFDRdem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealFDRdem)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/150 "2020-04-16T21:19:35Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I’d also like to imply that you’re probably sexist. You bros are fine with a revolution as long as you get to be in charge, blacks and chics have their place and I’m sure you’ll get around to helping them any day now. I think that Bernie bros are Trump supporters with liberal arts degrees, you’re not angry at the injustice, you’re angry that now that it’s your turn, your white privilege doesn’t go as far as it used to. See above:smack: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/151 "2020-04-16T21:20:19Z")
> [@RealFDRdem](#): > > Of course not. I live in a safe state so I have the freedom to vote my conscience by either voting Green or writing in Bernie. Dumb fucking reason but I expect that from this OP. If you want to get rid of the Electoral College, you want a popular vote to matter. So it’s really stupid to ensure that it doesn’t. Also, there’s a thing called a mandate: Absolutely blow away your opponent by millions and millions of votes and you not only win the office, it’s hard on the other side to stay the course. A blow out makes it a lot easier to ignore the policy ideas of your opponents. It also makes it harder for them to stay the course: Blowing out Trump makes it a lot more likely the GOP realize Trumpism was a mistake and stop being a party of irresponsible, anti-small-d-democratic racist shitheads and instead merely become an opposition party that has a semblance of sanity again. With your dumb protest vote, it won’t make the Democrats suddenly decide to get more progressive, and it will do nothing to make the Republicans less terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/152 "2020-04-16T21:22:25Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Or, to put it another way, why is it that progressives always have to give up their values and fall in line and vote for someone they don’t like, but people supporting the “moderate” conservative establishment corporate candidate never have to suck it up and vote for a progressive? It’s honestly not even a question until a “true progressive” actually manages to win the nomination and you can tell someone to “fall in line” and vote for them. Plenty of people said during the primaries “I don’t care for Sanders at all but I’ll vote for him if he’s the nominee because fuck Trump.” If you want to flip that around, first get a progressive candidate who can seal the first half of the race. Sanders didn’t lose because mean ole establishment whoevers said he won’t appeal to older voters. Sanders lost because, in the four years in his last run, he failed to increase the size of his support at all or make any inroads with the groups he’d need to win in a general election (or win the primary, for that matter). His campaign felt that he could win with 30% and it showed. Maybe he should have actually, you know, tried to appeal to those other groups just as progressives demand that every other candidate carry their platform. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/153 "2020-04-16T21:27:56Z")
Please provide a cite for the following accusation of Biden being a pedophile: > [@](#): > > . . .who can’t keep his hands off little girls ---
**Author:** ![RealFDRdem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac8455/32.png) [@RealFDRdem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealFDRdem)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/154 "2020-04-16T21:28:17Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I do NOT think OP is a troll, nor a racist, nor a closet Trumpist. _I sympathize with him._ I admire Bernie Sanders and admire many of the people who supported him. > > OP is wrong on one essential point, however. D’s fell in line behind Biden for one simple reason: _ **We think he has the highest chance of beating Trump.** _ > > _Maybe we’re wrong._ But _please_ stop spinning an alternate reality in which some secret cabal would rather lose with Biden than win with Sanders. It makes you look stupid. > > 😕 Very few of us blame Bernie when his dim-witted supporters turn against Biden. We blame the dim-witted supporters. > > As for your question: Why is this so complicated? Biden wants to row the boat, however slowly and incompetently, in the same direction as Bernie does. Trump and his cabal of evil-doers are rowing in the opposite direction as fast as they can. (They’ve already done huge damage. Another 4 years will end the America we loved.) How is it Biden’s fault — or the fault of us rational-thinking Americans — if dim-witted Bernie-brats don’t even understand which direction they want the boat to be rowed? Thanks for the opening kind words Septimus, but I take great issue with your assertion that a “secret cabal” wouldn’t rather lose with Joe than win with Bernie. The cabal isn’t all that secret, it consists of all the “third-way”, “moderate”, and “centrist” conservative pro-Wall Street Democrats who are in positions in the DNC or otherwise might hope to be considered for a cabinet or other position in a Democratic administration. These people, along with their Wall Street backers and allies in the corporate-owned media know that a Bernie victory would result in them being shown the door very quickly. Frankly in is stupid and naive in the extreme to believe that many of these self-serving assholes would willingly relinquish their positions with a Bernie victory instead of keeping them with an expected Biden loss. They know a Bernie victory would result in a transformed party they could never hope to be a part of again. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/155 "2020-04-16T21:31:23Z")
> [@RealFDRdem](#): > > Yes and it matters precisely zilch which Democratic nominee primary voters in the south favor because the nominee won’t win any of those states:smack: [Georgia could very much be in play](https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/20/politics/georgia-democrats-2020-election/index.html). It won’t be if idiots like you there assume the outcome and waste their votes, though. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/156 "2020-04-16T21:33:31Z")
> [@RealFDRdem](#): > > Actually voter opinions are dynamic, something you so-called “centrists” never seem to get. Especially in the middle of a campaign, and especially during a big crisis. Candidates that show leadership ability can fundamentally change the dynamic, conversation, and voting patters in a substantial way. “Centrists” seem to believe the American electorate is frozen in place and frozen in time. Obama was that kind of leader. Hillary Clinton was not. Neither was Bernie Sanders. He inspired many. But not nearly enough to win. Stop trying to make Bernie Sanders happen. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/157 "2020-04-16T21:35:25Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > It’s honestly not even a question until a “true progressive” actually manages to win the nomination and you can tell someone to “fall in line” and vote for them. Plenty of people said during the primaries “I don’t care for Sanders at all but I’ll vote for him if he’s the nominee because fuck Trump.” If you want to flip that around, first get a progressive candidate who can seal the first half of the race. No, I get it - if Sanders were nominated, you’d be telling old scared people to vote him. I understand. You’re not getting me. I’m talking about the nomination process. A lot of people say “we can’t vote for Sanders, no one should nominate Sanders, he’ll scare away ‘moderate’ voters”, and that’s part of the reason Bernie couldn’t get nominated. The idea that he’d scare away too many voters being parroted from everyone in the democratic party and the media. But the reverse never happens. No one ever says “we can’t nominate Biden, he’ll alienate the progressive voters”, they say “fuck those stupid ass Bernie voters, they’re going to have to get over their purity contests and fall in line and vote for our candidate” Progressives or people who are traditionally not enthusiastic about politics but who liked Bernie are just expected to fall in line and be good little democrats even if they never get anything they want, and at the very suggestion that they might not, a torrent of hostility is released. Progressives are always expected to bend over and lose everything they want and yet faithfully support a party they don’t even like and doesn’t care about them. But “moderate” democrats are never treated in this way. Everyone always babies them. If they get scared by some guy who wants to give them better health care, they might defect to the republicans! We better tiptoe around them and do everything we can to avoid spooking them. There’s a built in double standard where progressives are expected to get nothing, love it, and maintain loyalty to a conservative democratic party, and if they don’t, fucking unleash hell on them. But “moderates” are never criticized for their lack of support for a potential progressive candidate or hated or expected to vote blue no matter who. They’re treated like royalty whose ass must be licked at all times lest we lost them to Trump. This very attitude presented to us by the party, the media, and a lot of conservative democrat supporters in this thread is a reason why we’ll never have a progressive candidate. They’ve so indoctrinated the idea that progressives should fall in line and never get what they want, and that moderates should always be catered to and never criticized or expected to vote blue no matter who. And so when that idea permeates the electorate, everyone is forced to take the “reasonable” choice of nominating the moderate, and anyone that’s unhappy with that gets an extreme amount of vitriol. Anyway, I’ve tried to convey this idea several times and it doesn’t seem to be registering, so I may just not be explaining it well. Ah well, I’ll stop repeating it now. ---
**Author:** ![RealFDRdem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac8455/32.png) [@RealFDRdem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealFDRdem)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/158 "2020-04-16T21:37:45Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Exactly this. Bernie is a problematic candidate in the general because he would be running for president in the USA, not Europe, not Canada, but in the one and only major industrialized democracy left on earth that doesn’t even have universal health care, among many other things, and may not for a long time yet. Bernie is an admirable trailblazer but he’s far ahead of his time in a nation in which the corporatocracy is firmly in control. Republicans have it easy because they can go full-on crazy on plutocracy, but Democrats have to tread a careful middle ground between rationality and the existing power structure. Right, because when 25 million people have lost their jobs in two weeks “corporatocracy” is overwhelmingly popular:smack: ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/159 "2020-04-16T21:42:25Z")
> [@RealFDRdem](#): > > Thanks for the opening kind words Septimus, but I take great issue with your assertion that a “secret cabal” wouldn’t rather lose with Joe than win with Bernie. The cabal isn’t all that secret, it consists of all the “third-way”, “moderate”, and “centrist” conservative pro-Wall Street Democrats who are in positions in the DNC or otherwise might hope to be considered for a cabinet or other position in a Democratic administration. These people, along with their Wall Street backers and allies in the corporate-owned media know that a Bernie victory would result in them being shown the door very quickly. Frankly in is stupid and naive in the extreme to believe that many of these self-serving assholes would willingly relinquish their positions with a Bernie victory instead of keeping them with an expected Biden loss. They know a Bernie victory would result in a transformed party they could never hope to be a part of again. I wonder if my secret Democratic cabal member check will arrive before my Trump stimulus package check. Never mind. I think I’ll vote for the side which sends the greater amount. ---
**Author:** ![RealFDRdem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac8455/32.png) [@RealFDRdem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealFDRdem)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820/160 "2020-04-16T21:48:36Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Please provide a cite for the following accusation of Biden being a pedophile: I can find the youtube video if you like. I don’t think Biden is a pedophile (at all) but the attack ad writes itself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-lose-with-joe-what-the-2020-campaign-slogan-should-be/851820.md?page=9)