# Let's make a list of programs that don't work that will be eliminated under Obama! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 13, 2009, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318 "2009-03-13T11:22:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/41 "2009-03-14T00:03:10Z")
On Earmarks: Mr Obama during the campaign apparently promised to do away with earmarks that were added in and not subject to review. He is now saying that earmarks done right can be targeted boosts where needed – presumably with review. I live in North Carolina now, but I know that several cities along the Erie Canal route have high unemployment and factories that are closed down because they cannot be run profitably in their present condition and it would be an unprofitable investment for their owners to bring them up to competitive condition. I’d like to think that long-term loans to make them competitive and recreate jobs there would be something my congressman or one from California would see worth doing. Likewise earmarks to exploit oil shales, test the effectiveness of tidal power generation, etc., would be things beneficial to the country and get support on review. I see a clear distinction, worth making, there. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/42 "2009-03-14T00:09:17Z")
I’ve always thought the Selective Service System was an archaic waste of money. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/43 "2009-03-14T00:26:33Z")
The Bushies [Enemy Combatant Program Is Toast.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/13/AR2009031302371.html?hpid=topnews) ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/44 "2009-03-14T02:49:29Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Because he said he’d ban all earmarks while campaigning and now says some aren’t worthy of banning? Other than the fact that Obama said no such thing, you have a point. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/45 "2009-03-14T05:33:22Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Because he said he’d ban all earmarks while campaigning. No he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/46 "2009-03-14T05:58:52Z")
Homeland Security. ---
**Author:** ![Ocean\_Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8797f3/32.png) [@Ocean\_Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ocean_Annie)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/47 "2009-03-14T06:40:52Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Because he said he’d ban all earmarks while campaigning and now says some aren’t worthy of banning? Those some are part of the “all” he promised to ban. Absolute statements have a way of being turned into lies when one starts making exceptions. People made similar complaints about Bush Sr. about “no new taxes” when “no” soon became “not too many.” Do you have a quote? McCain was obsessed with earmarks, probably to distract form the Pentagon’s trillion dollar budget. Obama emphasized the fact that earmarks account for roughly one percent of the budget. The Rights newly discovered aversion to earmarks is smoke and mirrors, anything to make noise. ---
**Author:** ![welby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@welby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/welby)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/48 "2009-03-14T16:46:19Z")
He never said **all** , he said that he’d go “line by line to make sure we aren’t spending money unwisley.” That’s from the first presidential debate. He’s wavered. The omnibus had a few, the budget a lot more than a few. In neither case did Obama identify or eliminate an earmark. So apparently - what? They’re all justified? Or he just didn’t do it? What bothers me about it isn’t that he didn’t keep his promise, it’s the attitude of indifference and defeat displayed by Obama’s OMB administrator, who said [“We want to just move on. Let’s get this bill done, get it into law and move forward.”](http://www.northjersey.com/news/nation/40522587.html) Of course, it was also written off as “last year’s business.” In other words, it’s just to big of a fight right now, so let’s blow this huge chunk of money, and we’ll do better next time? That may work flipping burgers, but when you’re talking about billions of dollars it shows a serious lack of sense, and a lack of commitment to the responsible, change making government Obama touted. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/49 "2009-03-14T16:58:38Z")
Laissez-faire economics has pretty much disgraced itself. That should be jettisoned now. ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/50 "2009-03-14T17:03:55Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Laissez-faire economics has pretty much disgraced itself. > That should be jettisoned now. How has it disgraced itself? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/51 "2009-03-14T17:05:05Z")
> [@welby](#): > > He never said **all** , he said that he’d go “line by line to make sure we aren’t spending money unwisley.” That’s from the first presidential debate. > > He’s wavered. The omnibus had a few, the budget a lot more than a few. In neither case did Obama identify or eliminate an earmark. So apparently - what? They’re all justified? Or he just didn’t do it? > > What bothers me about it isn’t that he didn’t keep his promise, it’s the attitude of indifference and defeat displayed by Obama’s OMB administrator, who said [“We want to just move on. Let’s get this bill done, get it into law and move forward.”](http://www.northjersey.com/news/nation/40522587.html) Of course, it was also written off as “last year’s business.” In other words, it’s just to big of a fight right now, so let’s blow this huge chunk of money, and we’ll do better next time? That may work flipping burgers, but when you’re talking about billions of dollars it shows a serious lack of sense, and a lack of commitment to the responsible, change making government Obama touted. No. What Obama did regarding the omnibus bill was the only responsible course of action. If he had taken the McCain path (who by the way is acting like a spoiled child) congress would have been bogged down for weeks fixing the bill and the government would have had to shut down while it was being fixed. Shutting down the government in this economy would probably be a really stupid idea. The republicans are whining and mewling so they can score political points but following their lead would hurt the country. I’d rather have a president that can think than a cantankerous simpleton shrieking about earmarks while the government grinds to a halt. Since this was leftover legislation from the previous session they can start on the bills that they write during this term. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/52 "2009-03-14T17:08:13Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > How has it disgraced itself? [American’s Net Worth Down $15.5 Trillion](http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2009/03/12/americans-net-worth-down-155-trillion.html) ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/53 "2009-03-14T17:09:44Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [American’s Net Worth Down $15.5 Trillion](http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2009/03/12/americans-net-worth-down-155-trillion.html) Yes, I saw that too. Was that supposed to be the answer to my question? That when the value of assets drops, lassiez-faire economics has failed? ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/54 "2009-03-14T17:10:32Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > We didn’t have another 9/11 before 9/11 either, and it’s not like the TSA is the only change that has occurred since then that might have prevented new attacks. We put in TSA which is just moronic, take off shoes, laptops, no toothpaste… trying to catch bad guys. Then we go and bomb the crap out of two countries and inspire millions to hate us. Great plan. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/55 "2009-03-14T17:42:26Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > Was that supposed to be the answer to my question? That when the value of assets drops, lassiez-faire economics has failed? Yup, when failure to regulate allows crooks to create huge amounts of fake money, which eventually destroys confidence in the banking system, that’s a failure of Laissez-faire economics. I suppose there are some who feel that the occasional economic disaster is something to be courted, but that’s just an extremist minority. Most of us prefer a _good_ economy, and feel that collectively we have the power to make one. ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/56 "2009-03-14T19:38:04Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Yup, when failure to regulate allows crooks to create huge amounts of fake money, which eventually destroys confidence in the banking system, that’s a failure of Laissez-faire economics. > I suppose there are some who feel that the occasional economic disaster is something to be courted, but that’s just an extremist minority. Most of us prefer a _good_ economy, and feel that collectively we have the power to make one. I agree with the first clause of your first sentence, right up to the third comma. How can ‘fake money’ be created? How does that process happen? Is that a lassiez-faire process? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/57 "2009-03-14T19:44:58Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > How can ‘fake money’ be created? [Economic bubble](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_bubble) > [@](#): > > An economic bubble (sometimes referred to as a speculative bubble, a market bubble, a price bubble, a financial bubble, or a speculative mania) is “trade in high volumes at prices that are considerably at variance with intrinsic values”. ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/58 "2009-03-14T20:11:35Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [Economic bubble](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_bubble) That’s not what I asked. I asked how bankers can create ‘fake money’. I thought that was your claim. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/59 "2009-03-14T20:28:21Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > I asked how bankers can create ‘fake money’. I thought that was your claim. By using their good reputation to encourage “trade in high volumes at prices that are considerably at variance with intrinsic values.” Of course now they no longer have such good reputations, and the country is out some large number of dollars. The neat thing about this though is that the real dollars, and the fake dollars are inextricably mixed up, so that after the nation returns to a system of prices based on intrinsic value, the crooks who started up the speculative markets will retain some large fraction, about 2/3 based on the headline above, of their ill gotten gains. Of course that money came from you and me, so _we’re_ screwed by the government’s failure to reign in the bank’s capitalist excesses, before things when kablooey. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318/60 "2009-03-14T20:40:11Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > That’s not what I asked. I asked how bankers can create ‘fake money’. I thought that was your claim. **Squink** said crooks, not bankers. Bernie Madoff created fake money. He sent out fake statements to his victims about the successful fictitious investments in his fund. Thousands of crooked mortgage brokers set up phony assessments, straw buyers, and fraudulently arranged mortgages. Properties were sold and resold, with higher prices each time, and new mortgages each time, but the properties never really changed hands at all. That may sound as if you can’t make money that way, but when you get fat commissions on every mortgage you arrange, it’s very lucrative. These things should have been impossible. Regulations were cut away, though, and the funding for enforcement of the remaining rules was slashed. With no enforcement, it’s the same as having no rules. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-make-a-list-of-programs-that-dont-work-that-will-be-eliminated-under-obama/489318.md?page=4)