# "Let's name this thing what we already call that thing." English language stoopidity. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 20, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351 "2019-07-20T14:52:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/41 "2019-07-21T13:20:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Sure. [Definition 3c](https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/mandoline) Cool. Now, can you please translate this (from your linked website): “Frustrating the same Shrimp and her squares surrounded, I was gurgling that she had still had to play mandolin all sorgue. Going to the male would have done him more good.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/42 "2019-07-21T13:53:56Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Like I said, you did not read the OP carefully. Like I said, you didn’t structure it carefully, either. > [@](#): > > This I did not know. Not sure what that has to do with my topic, though. It doesn’t, other than it speaks to the depths of your research. > [@](#): > > What I’m puzzled about is why they didn’t name it a _schmertzer_. Because then the joke (such as it is) wouldn’t work. The name\* is the whole fucking point\*. > [@](#): > > Also, read the OP once more. Hint: it’s not about mandolins. It’s about the English language. …read my post again. Why are you complaining about the _English_ language when you example is _French_? Both things were named that in French. Before coming into English. You’re blaming the English for using the correct French names of two items. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/43 "2019-07-21T13:58:58Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > Or someone is demanding to see your hallway pass. That would be **manhattan.** ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/44 "2019-07-21T14:00:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, it’s not “mousen”? > > And today I learned something. I knew that there was a kitchen tool called a “mandolin(e)”, but I had assumed that it was the thing that you use to slice a hard-boiled egg. Because, you know, that thing has a bunch of parallel strings. Ha. I’m surprised we don’t call that device a guitar. Or, if only 4 slicing wires, a bass. mmm ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/45 "2019-07-21T14:12:32Z")
> [@jaycat](#): > > Cool. Now, can you please translate this (from your linked website): > > “Frustrating the same Shrimp and her squares surrounded, I was gurgling that she had still had to play mandolin all sorgue. Going to the male would have done him more good.” My French is piss-poor, but I think it’s more like - “Frightening the same Crevette and her squared-off squares, I forced myself to believe that she had still had to “play the Mandolin” all over the Sorgue. Going to the male would have done him more good.” And then recognizing that Auguste Le Breton was an author who wrote very slang-ridden crime novels, as well as 3 dictionaries of slang, I’m assuming “squared-off squares” is also slang, and since it’s capitalized here, Crevette is a nickname. The Sorgue is a river. But I think we’re still missing more context. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/46 "2019-07-21T14:12:42Z")
^^ Please! A uke. ---
**Author:** ![Scribble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scribble/32/3317_2.png) [@Scribble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scribble)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/47 "2019-07-21T14:16:32Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/48 "2019-07-21T14:43:30Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Like I said, you didn’t structure it carefully, either. > > It doesn’t, other than it speaks to the depths of your research. > > Because then the joke (such as it is) wouldn’t work. The name\* is the whole fucking point\*. > > …read my post again. Why are you complaining about the _English_ language when you example is _French_? Both things were named that in French. Before coming into English. You’re blaming the English for using the correct French names of two items. When you are the only one who did not understand the OP, then the OP was not unclear. (It was not reasonable for you to read the italics as a sig, as that is not what sigs look like.) It’s okay to simply apologize for a brain fart and then back out. It happens to all of us. His research was fine: he looked up where the words came from. It is, and remains, entirely irrelevant to the thread topic. The topic isn’t about _mandoline_ and _mandolin_. Those are just an example. The fact that French is the one who gave two objects the same exact name doesn’t really change anything about the OP. The OP made a lighthearted thread pointing out some linguistic absurdities. No social justice issue is being gored; no immorality is being perpetrated. Your ire is misplaced. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/49 "2019-07-21T15:08:10Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > When you are the only one who did not understand the OP …except I wasn’t, according to the OP themself… > [@](#): > > It was not reasonable for you to read the italics as a sig, as that is not what sigs look like I only see the kind of sigs that people make themselves, like Shodan and mmm, so I have no idea what the other, built-in ones look like, as I have those turned off. > [@](#): > > The fact that French is the one who gave two objects the same exact name doesn’t really change anything about the OP. Wrong. Go reread the thread title. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/50 "2019-07-21T15:14:26Z")
All of which misses out my _actual_ point - the OP’s point is dumb, because the “joke” doesn’t work otherwise. The same name is the whole _point_. The OP’s “absurdity” only works if the naming _wasn’t_ on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/51 "2019-07-21T15:21:38Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No social justice issue is being gored; no immorality is being perpetrated. ETA: What the _everliving_ fuck are you on about, pal? My response has nothing to do with “social justice” or “immorality”, and everything with the OP choosing a dumb example to illustrate _English_ “stoopidity”. I’m criticizing their _humour_, not their wokeness. I have a life outside political threads… My _main_ point stands without considering the OP’s italic note. In fact, my awareness of the existence of the note just makes the OP’s choice of example seem even dumber. Many of the other examples given in the thread would have worked _much_ better for their point. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/52 "2019-07-21T15:39:23Z")
The British use “rocket” to mean arugula, which not only robs them of the pleasure of saying arugula, but must have been confusing during the Blitz. The momentary hesitation upon hearing cries of, “Rocket!!” doomed a generation of British salad lovers. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/53 "2019-07-21T15:40:36Z")
I always wonder about the hen vs. egg aspects. Are oranges called that because they are orange? Or is the color named for them? Same question for cardinal (bird) cardinal (shade of red.) ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/54 "2019-07-21T16:01:31Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > If you confuse a frog for a frog, it could lead to some really morbid flower arrangements. And a really messy uniform as well. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/55 "2019-07-21T16:22:51Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Are oranges called that because they are orange? Or is the color named for them? The latter. Orange the colour used to just be called “yellow-red”, “yellow-saffron” or, mostly, just “red” (see: “red” foxes, squirrels and deer) > [@](#): > > Same question for cardinal (bird) cardinal (shade of red.) The bird _and_ the colour are named after the senior priests called cardinals (who actually wear _scarlet_ cassocks, not cardinal ones.) ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/56 "2019-07-21T16:48:14Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Or, if only 4 slicing wires, a bass. Why would we name it after a fish? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/57 "2019-07-21T16:54:12Z")
> [@Greg\_Charles](#): > > The British use “rocket” to mean arugula, which not only robs them of the pleasure of saying arugula, but must have been confusing during the Blitz. The momentary hesitation upon hearing cries of, “Rocket!!” doomed a generation of British salad lovers. In English you can have a salad which doesn’t contain any salad. Now if we could convince the English that it’s ok to have one without cucumber, that would be a welcome improvement. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/58 "2019-07-21T17:57:14Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The latter. Orange the colour used to just be called “yellow-red”, “yellow-saffron” or, mostly, just “red” (see: “red” foxes, squirrels and deer) > The bird _and_ the colour are named after the senior priests called cardinals (who actually wear _scarlet_ cassocks, not cardinal ones.) Okay, thanks! Of course there are a ton of other examples of color names/objects. Violets, lavender, ivory, cherry, pinks, gold, silver, on and on and on. ---
**Author:** ![Themenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ee59a6/32.png) [@Themenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Themenin)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/59 "2019-07-21T18:30:05Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > My French is piss-poor, but I think it’s more like - > “Frightening the same Crevette and her squared-off squares, I forced myself to believe that she had still had to “play the Mandolin” all over the Sorgue. Going to the male would have done him more good.” > > And then recognizing that Auguste Le Breton was an author who wrote very slang-ridden crime novels, as well as 3 dictionaries of slang, I’m assuming “squared-off squares” is also slang, and since it’s capitalized here, Crevette is a nickname. The Sorgue is a river. But I think we’re still missing more context. “Spying the devotchka named Shrimp and her tired glazzies, I sussed that she’d been strumming her banjo all night again. A man would have done her more good.” It’s very old slang, and even some of the non standard words have changed have changed in meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351/60 "2019-07-21T18:36:50Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > I always wonder about the hen vs. egg aspects. > > Are oranges called that because they are orange? Or is the color named for them? > > Same question for cardinal (bird) cardinal (shade of red.) Orange is an excellent example. Of course, I’ve seen a green orange before. And, on a golf course, a yellow green. mmm [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-name-this-thing-what-we-already-call-that-thing-english-language-stoopidity/837351.md?page=4)