# Let's pit Dopers who engage in debate with Starving Artist **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389 "2009-10-28T02:33:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/421 "2009-11-02T11:28:48Z")
No, you didn’t say that. Try again, this time being honest. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/422 "2009-11-02T12:25:37Z")
Personally, I long for the days of Freedom Fries. With mayo. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/423 "2009-11-02T12:32:35Z")
I prefer mustard. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/424 "2009-11-02T12:58:04Z")
Well, yeah, but you’re from that place where public hairs go counter-clockwise. Unnatural. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/425 "2009-11-02T13:05:55Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Uh…you did notice where I said I meant that tongue-in-cheek, didn’t you? Nice. More sidestep. HOW you said it was tongue in cheek. WHAT you said is nothing new. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/426 "2009-11-02T13:17:50Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Uh…you did notice where I said I meant that tongue-in-cheek, didn’t you? Yeah, as if had I come in here immediately afterward to confess that you had finally gotten through to me, smashed my leftist brains up good and proper, and I now want to subscribe to your newsletter, and done it utterly convincingly, you wouldn’t have cited that as a triumph for your methods. When you say stupid shit, just fess up to it, would ya? Don’t give us the old “tongue–in-cheek” dodge. Of course, in your case that’s a lot of non-stop fessing up you’d be doing. ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/427 "2009-11-02T16:45:09Z")
I’m just a new fish so I’ve got no dog in this race, but one thing I’ve noticed here has always been of note to me is that a lot of the strident conservatives here spend about 60% of their time complaining about how this is an all-liberal board and how they always have to put up with this. Maybe I’m a schmuck, but if I were part of a community in the interest of political debate, and I was vastly outnumbered and constantly being piled on, and this all happened for 5+ years straight, and nobody seemed to care about what I was saying, I’d probably just leave. So for the ones who are still at it after years and years of singing the same song about how how this is a super-libby board and so on, I have to wonder if all they care about is rousing rabble and they have no interest in actual discourse. They have to be getting something here to make it worth staying, but if it were for the Mad Men threads alone, one could just stick to those threads. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/428 "2009-11-02T18:25:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, yeah, but you’re from that place where public hairs go counter-clockwise. Unnatural. “Public” hairs? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/429 "2009-11-02T18:29:40Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > Maybe I’m a schmuck, but if I were part of a community in the interest of political debate, and I was vastly outnumbered and constantly being piled on, and this all happened for 5+ years straight, and nobody seemed to care about what I was saying, I’d probably just leave. Just because you’re constantly being piled on doesn’t mean people don’t care about what you’re saying. Hell, Shodan is the most strident of all, in a way, but he often has original points to contribute, and sometimes he even _changes my mind_. **Starving** , of course, does not do this, although he does make me reconsider my Indian-bred concern and respect for one’s elders. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/430 "2009-11-02T18:38:36Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](#): > > “Public” hairs? Y’know, the ones you can see, like on the top of your head. **RNATB** , your “Indian-bred” comment now has me craving naan. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/431 "2009-11-03T00:28:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > …public hairs… Hippy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/432 "2009-11-03T00:45:20Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Hippy. Damned straight! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/433 "2009-11-03T02:46:45Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > I’m just a new fish so I’ve got no dog in this race, but one thing I’ve noticed here has always been of note to me is that a lot of the strident conservatives here spend about 60% of their time complaining about how this is an all-liberal board and how they always have to put up with this. > > Maybe I’m a schmuck, but if I were part of a community in the interest of political debate, and I was vastly outnumbered and constantly being piled on, and this all happened for 5+ years straight, and nobody seemed to care about what I was saying, I’d probably just leave. > > So for the ones who are still at it after years and years of singing the same song about how how this is a super-libby board and so on, I have to wonder if all they care about is rousing rabble and they have no interest in actual discourse. They have to be getting something here to make it worth staying, but if it were for the Mad Men threads alone, one could just stick to those threads. Yeah, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/434 "2009-11-03T03:21:41Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > I’m just a new fish so I’ve got no dog in this race, but one thing I’ve noticed here has always been of note to me is that a lot of the strident conservatives here spend about 60% of their time complaining about how this is an all-liberal board and how they always have to put up with this. Yeah, they get pretty catty about it. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/435 "2009-11-03T03:53:04Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > I’m just a new fish so I’ve got no dog in this race, but one thing I’ve noticed here has always been of note to me is that a lot of the strident conservatives here spend about 60% of their time complaining about how this is an all-liberal board and how they always have to put up with this. I’ve been here for years and have often wondered the same thing. It’s one thing to support a minority position, another to complain that your opinion is the minority in the social group you’ve freely chosen to engage with and how unfair it is that you’re always so badly outnumbered. There must be plenty of right-leaning message boards out there for conservatives who’d rather be in the majority all the time. I’ve participated in other forums (mostly fan groups) that weren’t explicitly political but whose membership skewed one way or another, and I’ve never seen one where the political minority moaned and groaned so much about the unfairness of it all. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/436 "2009-11-03T04:44:04Z")
I think, if you looked into it, you would see that, as a percentage of a conservative poster’s posts, the moaning and groaning is quite rare and certainly nowhere near 60%. More like .006%, I’d imagine. And where’s the fun in going to a board where everyone thinks like you do and all you do is slap yourselves on the back all the time? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/437 "2009-11-03T06:04:47Z")
I post here because I think it’s much more productive to engage people who don’t agree with you, where hopefully some appreciation of each other’s positions can take place or at least you can learn to understand how your political opponents think. It’s more productive than hanging out on boards full of fellow travelers where no one thinks critically and every comment is little more than the reaffirmation of the collective zeitgeist. I think the reverse question is more interesting - why are you interested in only debating people who think like you do? Are your ideas really so weak that you can’t tolerate having them challenged? In fact, isn’t that kinda what debate IS? Opposing points of view engaging in dialog? It’s kind of sad that both sides tend to keep to themselves, with the exception of the bomb throwers and snark artists. Political discourse would be a lot healthier if more of you would go and post on right wing boards in a civil manner in an honest attempt to debate real issues. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/438 "2009-11-03T06:55:41Z")
For myself, there are absolutely some posters (call them “conservative”) whose ideas often differ from mine that I always read. **Sam Stone** and **Bricker** among them. In fact, in political threads, I more often totally gloss over people whom I know I agree with and totally ignore people who I agree with but who express themselves very badly, in favor of reading the cogent insight from people of alternative points of view. Having said all that, I too am amused at how much time some of the conservatives on this board spend as little wanna-be martyrs. There is an awful lot of that, there really is. Also, I think **Starving Artist** is a total buffoon. People like Sam Stone and Bricker are _well_ worth engaging with. They will think about intelligent comments and respond in kind (for the most part.) I enjoy reading them, and learn something from time to time. SA is not worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/439 "2009-11-03T07:02:13Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I think the reverse question is more interesting - why are you interested in only debating people who think like you do? Has anyone (aside from possibly **Der Trihs** ) said that in this thread? Stop making **Starving Artist** a conservative martyr. He’s not worth your time, just as **gonzo** isn’t worth being defended by libs. He isn’t slammed, mocked, and derided because he’s a righty, he’s slammed, mocked, and derided because he isn’t here to debate but to preach, and he doesn’t even do a good job of that. The preceding 8 pages show that quite well, I think. His method of thinking (or, at least, his reason for posting here) does not lend itself to productive discourse. As a way to kill time on the internet, it’s not bad, which is why I’ve been participating in this thread, but he does not contribute to meaningful discussion as you would like to imply he does. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389/440 "2009-11-03T09:59:15Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Political discourse would be a lot healthier if more of you would go and post on right wing boards in a civil manner in an honest attempt to debate real issues. Where do you recommend? Boards of any sort that encourage civil discourse are few and far between; those with a particular political bent even fewer. Feel free to PM me if naming other boards is against general SDMB policy; if I post there I won’t refer back to here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-dopers-who-engage-in-debate-with-starving-artist/515389.md?page=23)