# Let's pit Martin Luther King! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 16, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016 "2015-01-16T20:05:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/41 "2015-01-16T23:41:37Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > I see this is more of a “thing” than I thought it was. My in-laws recently came back from their first and only trip to Our Nation’s Capital and all they had to report on was how outraged they were over the FDR memorial showing him in a wheelchair. They, too, called it a capitulation to the PC lobby, or some such nonsense. I wonder how FDR would feel about it. When he was POTUS, most people didn’t know; the press had a gentlemen’s agreement never to mention his disability or print a picture of him in a wheelchair. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/42 "2015-01-16T23:57:47Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Johnson was at the end of a long process. All he had to do was sign the bill into law. What and who got the ball rolling? And who was the leader in the movement? Not to side with the OP, but Johnson did a LOT more than sign the bill. He strong-armed that bill through Congress in a way few presidents could. He’s got the stain of Vietnam on his hands, but on Civil Rights, he was right up there with the best of them. As for the OP’s suggestion that FDR be honored instead… you are aware of the marital infidelities of that president, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/43 "2015-01-17T00:08:30Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > I give credit to Lyndon Johnson. If King hadn’t been assassinated, he’d be seen with the same level of skepticism as Jesse Jackson. Cuz it’s not like Johnson ever cheated on his wife amiright? He was always classy, never crude, or vulgar, unlike that horrible MLK. ---
**Author:** ![DingoelGringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DingoelGringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DingoelGringo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/44 "2015-01-17T00:12:31Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > The greatest moral victory of the 20th century was the Allies defeating the Axis powers. I’d support an FDR holiday, hopefully without the political correct wheelchair. You got any photoshopped pics of him standing up? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/45 "2015-01-17T00:14:32Z")
Franklin Roosevelt had women on the side. **Eleanor** Roosevelt had women on the side. MLK, JFK, RFK, LBJ . . . Nixon, OTOH, was a perfect angel. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/46 "2015-01-17T00:20:10Z")
> [@DingoelGringo](#): > > You got any photoshopped pics of him standing up? [Very short clip of FDR walking](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvKDwBMEycw). Besides wearing leg braces, note the support provided by both the railing and assistant. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/47 "2015-01-17T00:30:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Franklin Roosevelt had women on the side. > > **Eleanor** Roosevelt had women on the side. > > MLK, JFK, RFK, LBJ . . . > > Nixon, OTOH, was a perfect angel. 😉 I think history shows us that the worst assholes are the ones who have good morals. Or, at least, the ones that _claim_ to. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/48 "2015-01-17T00:30:41Z")
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait… The OP _ **isn’t** _ sarcastic?! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/49 "2015-01-17T00:34:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I wonder how FDR would feel about it. When he was POTUS, most people didn’t know… Actually, almost everyone knew “something”, if not all the specifics. But it was generally not shown in pictures. Check out this [link.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=687468) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/50 "2015-01-17T00:40:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Actually, almost everyone knew “something”, if not all the specifics. But it was generally not shown in pictures. > > Check out this [link.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=687468) > [@How many people knew FDR could not walk?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-fdr-could-not-walk/655075/12): > > The ‘beating polio’ theme was part of his 1932 campaign. There was a widely seen newsreel shot that purported to show him walking out of a clinic. In actuality he was supported by others and only took a single step with his braces on. His campaign was carefully crafted to show him as a vital man. He was often portrayed wearing a hat with the front brim folded up as if he was facing into the wind, and the cigarette holder clenched in his teeth was an obvious phallic symbol. > [@How many people knew FDR could not walk?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-people-knew-fdr-could-not-walk/655075/14): > > Don’t read too much modern-day into these things. Wearing your brim up was more of a 19teens thing than a “wind” thing. Cigarette holders stood for the patrician set, not penises (or he’d have smoked a long, fat cigar). Paging Winston Churchill! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/51 "2015-01-17T00:42:42Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > I see this is more of a “thing” than I thought it was. My in-laws recently came back from their first and only trip to Our Nation’s Capital and all they had to report on was how outraged they were over the FDR memorial showing him in a wheelchair. They, too, called it a capitulation to the PC lobby, or some such nonsense. They wanted a statue of him lying on the ground? Plus, I’m not sure FDR really has much moral high-ground as far as marital infidelity goes. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/52 "2015-01-17T00:44:35Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > The greatest moral victory of the 20th century was the Allies defeating the Axis powers. I’d support an FDR holiday, I think you mean “Stalin”. Though I think “National Stalin Day” might be a tough sell. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/53 "2015-01-17T00:44:46Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Just another pitting of MLK by the OP. He does this almost every year since he’s been here. For a long time, my only real sense of the OP was that he’s some guy who follows baseball. We talked in the baseball threads, and everything was perfectly cordial. But scratch the surface in a serious discussion, and you uncover a complete fucking asshole. Between his attitude to King and his completely disgusting performance in the discussions about sexual assault, he’s contemptible scum. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/54 "2015-01-17T00:46:31Z")
I don’t usually track users from one thread to another, but now I will remember the OP as the guy who dislikes MLK for his treatment of women, but thinks that Ray Rice was treated unfairly. Perhaps if MLK’s dream was about punching out a 110 pound woman, he would be held in higher regard by the asshole OP. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/55 "2015-01-17T00:51:22Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > For a long time, my only real sense of the OP was that he’s some guy who follows baseball. We talked in the baseball threads, and everything was perfectly cordial. > > But scratch the surface in a serious discussion, and you uncover a complete fucking asshole. Between his attitude to King and his completely disgusting performance in the discussions about sexual assault, he’s contemptible scum. My personal favorite is his saying that 50 percent of rape accusations are false because roofies are an urban legend. And in other news, 37 percent of board posts are false because Bigfoot ate my neighbor’s homework. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/56 "2015-01-17T01:07:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Actually, almost everyone knew “something”, if not all the specifics. But it was generally not shown in pictures. There’s a nice section on the public perception of his disability in the PBS American Experience documentary, “FDR.” You can see the relevant section of the video on [this page](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/fdr/player/), from 2.22.00 to 2.26.00. The transcript for the section says: > [@](#): > > **Alistair Cooke, Journalist:** I don’t believe five Americans in a hundred knew he was paralyzed. I think if it had been absolutely common knowledge, it would have been very difficult to elect him. > > **Hugh Gallagher, Biographer:** The country just simply didn’t perceive Roosevelt as being handicapped, and they would look and they just would not see what they were seeing. People wanted him to be president, he wanted to be president. There was this little matter of being crippled in the way. > > The President was always performing. He was performing before crowds, before visitors of state, the Congress and so forth, but also for his family and everyone else. When he met Orson Welles, he said, “Orson, you and I are the two best actors in America,” and he was right, you know. He was right. > > He’s appearing in public. It’s politically important that he not look helpless. He’s got to plan how will he enter a room? How will he move across to the chair? Who will help him sit down? How will he do it? Who will take the cane? How – do they know? Is the chair stable? > > **Milton Lipson, Secret Service:** We became experts at designing ramps, and there would be ramps that would be erected either on a permanent or temporary basis to allow for the wheelchair. Of course, there were times when he would be helped by a couple of agents in a fireman’s carry, and all he would do was drape his arms around us and we’d form a fireman’s carry and carry him. > > **Hugh Gallagher, Biographer:** For large crowds, they would build a ramp for the car, so the car would come into the stadiums, drive up on the ramp and then the President, still seated, would address the public. > > And they had the braces painted black, even though they were shiny steel. He wore black shoes, black socks, black trousers – black trousers cut long so that the braces all but disappeared if you weren’t looking closely. > > **Chalmers Roberts, Journalist:** Most of the pictures you see of him, he’s either standing up and if you look carefully he’s holding onto somebody’s arm or he’s sitting in a chair. There are very few pictures of him in a wheelchair. This was not exactly a conspiracy, but it was a conspiracy of consent between photographers and the White House, something that could never exist today. > > **Hugh Gallagher, Biographer:** At Hyde Park, they have something like more than 40,000 still photos of Franklin Roosevelt and of those 40,000, there are only two of him in a wheelchair, and they were family photos. And there was never a cartoon of him being handicapped or being in a wheelchair or otherwise. He was always running and jumping or in a boxing ring, hitting – knocking a Republican out of the ring or something like that. People were more polite back then, and the press loved Franklin Roosevelt because he took care of them. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/57 "2015-01-17T01:14:53Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait… > > The OP _ **isn’t** _ sarcastic?! Apparently not, he [has already been Pitted for this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=452568). (“already” as in _seven fucking years ago_) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/58 "2015-01-17T01:17:56Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I don’t usually track users from one thread to another, but now I will remember the OP as the guy who dislikes MLK for his treatment of women, but thinks that Ray Rice was treated unfairly. > > Perhaps if MLK’s dream was about punching out a 110 pound woman, he would be held in higher regard by the asshole OP. Just so long as he did not fuck her, of course. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/59 "2015-01-17T01:20:19Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > There’s a nice section on the public perception of his disability in the PBS American Experience documentary, “FDR.” You can see the relevant section of the video on [this page](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/fdr/player/), from 2.22.00 to 2.26.00. The transcript for the section says: Did no one at the time ever, ever say, “Come to think of it, there’s no real reason why a national leader needs to be able to walk”? ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016/60 "2015-01-17T01:55:22Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > [The man was no lightweight.](http://youtu.be/fAtsAwGreyE) Thanks for this link, a good watch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pit-martin-luther-king/710016.md?page=4)