# Let's Play Nuclear Football **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 15, 2017, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881 "2017-02-15T04:20:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![hermitcrab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@hermitcrab](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hermitcrab)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/1 "2017-02-15T04:20:02Z")
So I was startled to learn that Saturday night, President Trump’s dinner with Japan’s PM Shinzo Abe at his Mar-a-Lago Resort suddenly developed into a high-security meeting in full view of diners. In quick response to North Korea’s latest missile launch, Trump, Mr. Abe, and aides did NOT go to a secure location but instead strategized in front of the public. [www.cnn.com/2017/02/13/politics/donald-trump-shinzo-abe-north-korea-documents/](http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/13/politics/donald-trump-shinzo-abe-north-korea-documents/) Even more terrifying was that Richard DeAgazio, a fan with a Facebook Account, used the event to post pictures with the caption “Wow…the center of the action!” and even posed with “Rick”, an aide-de-camp who was carrying the nuclear “football” (the mobile backpack with the nuclear “button”). He closed his account, but I’m pretty rattled that a non-vetted member of the public can be close enough to someone entrusted with the Country’s nuclear codes. As Senator McCain said about the incident, “Can’t make it up.” So here’s my question: if this way of doing State business in country clubs continue, what if one of the $200,000-a-membership diners socializing with the aides wasn’t a FB fan, but a terrorist, agent from a hostile country, or member of a sophisticated criminal enterprise? What if they grabbed the “football” and threatened to activate it? Or managed to escape and put it in enemy hands for leverage? I assume there’s fail-safes and options to deactivate the device, so could criminals at least sell it as a cool collector’s item? Crap like this is keeping me up at night. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/2 "2017-02-15T04:29:32Z")
While the international relations decorum is certainly suspect, “nuclear footballs” don’t work that way. There is a military officer that follows around the POTUS 24/7 with a briefcase but it mainly contains the _current launch plans_ and not the nuclear launch codes. In short, it takes a multi-level authorization to launch any nuclear missile. It starts with the President but has to be approved by the Secretary of Defense and then executed down the line. Anyone in that chain could stop an illegal or suspect order. > **[The Real Story of the "Football" That Follows the President Everywhere](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/real-story-football-follows-president-everywhere-180952779/)** > > Take a peek at the mysterious black briefcase that has accompanied every U.S. president since John F. Kennedy ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/3 "2017-02-15T04:45:58Z")
When playing nuclear football, there’s only one play. You throw the long bomb. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/4 "2017-02-15T05:47:55Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > When playing nuclear football, there’s only one play. You throw the long bomb. You the superbowl shuffle? ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/5 "2017-02-15T06:37:06Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > When playing nuclear football, there’s only one play. You throw the long bomb. or the ultimate Hail Mary play. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/6 "2017-02-15T08:57:50Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > While the international relations decorum is certainly suspect, “nuclear footballs” don’t work that way. There is a military officer that follows around the POTUS 24/7 with a briefcase but it mainly contains the _current launch plans_ and not the nuclear launch codes. In short, it takes a multi-level authorization to launch any nuclear missile. It starts with the President but has to be approved by the Secretary of Defense and then executed down the line. Anyone in that chain could stop an illegal or suspect order. > > [http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/real-story-football-follows-president-everywhere-180952779/](http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/real-story-football-follows-president-everywhere-180952779/) [Alex Wallerstein](http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2016/11/18/the-president-and-the-bomb/)says the opposite. > [@](#): > > The entire point of the US command and control system is to guarantee that the President and only the President is capable of authorizing nuclear war whenever he needs to. It is about enabling the President’s power, not checking or restricting him. > … > > To be sure, the official doctrine that I have seen on the Nuclear Command Authority implies that the President should be given as much advice as possible from the military, the Department of Defense, and so on. But nothing I have seen suggests that this is any more than advisory — and the entire system is set up so that once the President’s order is verified and authenticated, there are meant to be only minutes until launch. And even more chilling: > [@](#): > > Would the military second-guess the President, and override the order? I mean, anything is possible — this has just never happened before, so who knows. But I am dubious. In 1973, Major Harold Hering was fired for asking, “How can I know that an order I receive to launch my missiles came from a sane president?” Not because it is a fireable offensive to imply that the President might not, at all times, be entirely capable of making such an order, but because to start to question that order would mean to put the entire credibility of the nuclear deterrent at risk. The entire logic of the system is that the President’s will on this point must be authoritative. If people start second-guessing orders, the entire strategic artifice breaks down. So if his orangeness decides to launch, the system is supposed to launch. ---
**Author:** ![Debillw3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@Debillw3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debillw3)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/7 "2017-02-15T09:00:53Z")
> [@hermitcrab](#): > > He closed his account, but I’m pretty rattled that a non-vetted member of the public can be close enough to someone entrusted with the Country’s nuclear codes. Anyone close to the President is generally close to that person… I’ve been within 150 feet. Most people are just so enthralled with the idea of seeing the President that they don’t notice the guy with a briefcase in his general vicinity. Doesn’t mean he’s not there. > [@hermitcrab](#): > > what if one of the $200,000-a-membership diners socializing with the aides wasn’t a FB fan, but a terrorist, agent from a hostile country, or member of a sophisticated criminal enterprise? What if they grabbed the “football” and threatened to activate it? Or managed to escape and put it in enemy hands for leverage? I assume there’s fail-safes and options to deactivate the device, so could criminals at least sell it as a cool collector’s item? Um… 1. Anyone in the vicinity of a sitting President has been screened for weapons by the US Secret Service. After Reagan, metal detectors aren’t optional–even rope lines are screened now. 2. The Secret Service are armed. You are not (as established in number 1). Both the Secret Service and Military Aide are going to be way better at hand to hand combat than you seem to expect. This isn’t a situation where you can just say “Yoink” and take it. If you so much as try it, I can pretty much guarantee you that you’ll have a gun in your back before you know what hit you–no different than if you tried to take any other aide’s briefcase. (Speaking of briefcases, one of the Secret Service agents very likely has a powerful gun in theirs–they will remove it if need be.) 3. As already established, you carry misconceptions about what’s actually in the briefcase. For obvious security reasons, nobody knows exactly what it is, but it’s not likely to be anything that would cause more than a few headaches if stolen. But, as I mentioned, it also wouldn’t be stolen. The issue people have with that photograph is one of decorum, not national security. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/8 "2017-02-15T10:15:30Z")
The name of the Military officer who carries the football is classified? I am pretty sure name plates are still part of the uniform, IIRC they are required under the Geneva convention. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/9 "2017-02-15T10:49:31Z")
And if old Trump had left the meeting, he’d be excoriated for ‘panicking’ and ‘cowardliness’ : no matter what people do they can’t win. If Trumpo’s reaction had to blow up NK he would be blamed, if he does nothing he will be blamed, if he sent them a stern note he would be blamed. Plus all the ‘\*Told You So ! Told You So ! \* He’s not to be trusted with nuclear weapons.’ stuff. Anyway, if the officer + suitcase is _required_ by law to be always within a certain distance then he has to be present at venues such as this. Unless the POTUS never leaves the White House and never meets foreigners. [Which actually couldn’t harm.] ---
**Author:** ![Debillw3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@Debillw3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debillw3)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/10 "2017-02-15T11:08:14Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The name of the Military officer who carries the football is classified? I am pretty sure name plates are still part of the uniform, IIRC they are required under the Geneva convention. Name tags are worn by the Military Aides. They have the same uniform as every other officer. In the photo in question, the aide is wearing his lightweight jacket over his shirt. In my experience, one wasn’t required to put the name tag on the lightweight jacket if it was on the shirt underneath. I could be misremembering or that may have changed, but that’s my understanding of the uniform regulation. That said, even if the name isn’t “classified”, nobody holds any obligation to release that name to the general public. I don’t see why the White House or DoD would go out of their way to release it. Classifying the name would be a somewhat foolish endeavor, to be honest, as there are no restrictions on photographing them–so anyone who saw the photos and recognized the person in them would be free to tell everyone who they are. The government generally doesn’t classify things that are in plain view for that reason. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/11 "2017-02-15T11:49:42Z")
I remember reading about one of the first women to carry the Nuclear Football; IIRC she and her husband actually did the duty at the same time; it was never a secret what their job was. From the looks of it, the particular officer was not carrying the briefcase at the time. Hope he does not suffer professionally due to the actions of jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/12 "2017-02-15T11:53:54Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > And if old Trump had left the meeting, he’d be excoriated for ‘panicking’ and ‘cowardliness’ : no matter what people do they can’t win. If Trumpo’s reaction had to blow up NK he would be blamed, if he does nothing he will be blamed, if he sent them a stern note he would be blamed. > Plus all the ‘\*Told You So ! Told You So ! \* He’s not to be trusted with nuclear weapons.’ stuff. Ah, the “The imaginary versions of you in my hypothetical prove that you’re all hypocrites” argument. Always a good one. Why would Trump leaving to deal with an important and sensitive developing international situation in a more secure setting be considered cowardice? Seems like common sense to me. These fictitious people you’ve conjured up are being ridiculous about this. ---
**Author:** ![Debillw3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@Debillw3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debillw3)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/13 "2017-02-15T11:58:12Z")
My point is that there’s a difference between keeping something secret and not being obligated to release it. There’s no obligation on the part of the White House or the DoD to release the names and job descriptions of people in their employ. But, at the same time, there’s no obligation on the part of the White House, DoD, or people holding the job to not release that information. Things that are in plain sight aren’t classified for obvious reasons. The person carrying the football is one of those things. So anyone who sees them is free to photograph them or reveal their identity to the public. The people who hold the job are free to say that they hold the job, since anyone who sees them at work would know that. But the people who hold the job are also free to not reveal their names to the general public or admit that they hold the job if asked. It’s just like any other job in that respect. Those who want to publicize that they have the job are free to shout it from the rooftops. Those who don’t are free to simply tell people that their career is in the military and hope nobody follows up or recognizes them in pictures. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/14 "2017-02-15T12:00:42Z")
I have no idea how the nuclear procedures are set up. However I highly doubt whatever that officer is carrying contains a big red button that says “Push Here to launch” and off they go. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/15 "2017-02-15T12:12:43Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > I have no idea how the nuclear procedures are set up. However I highly doubt whatever that officer is carrying contains a big red button that says “Push Here to launch” and off they go. The Americans? Maybe not.[The Russians on the other (Dead) Hand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand_(nuclear_war)). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/16 "2017-02-15T13:14:48Z")
As mentioned, it is not going to be easy to grab the football. There are lots of Secret Service types around, both the ones you recognize and the ones you don’t. And they are very, very serious people. You would probably have to kill the guy carrying the football, and those around him are not going to be shy about shooting you, therefore, for fear of hitting him. Then you have to get outside the perimeter, also without getting shot, and get into a vehicle to make a getaway. The vehicle has to be waiting for you - flagging down a cab or calling Uber is probably not a good option. Then you have to get to a secured location, where you can issue demands and/or put the thing on eBay. Plus, think of it this way - I grab the football and a hostage, and yell, “Let me leave with the US nuclear launch codes that can blow up the world and kill hundreds of millions of people, or I’ll shoot the hostage!” It’s not a very pleasant choice, but it is not a very difficult one. The Secret Service is going to shoot me between seventy five and a hundred times. This will probably kill the hostage, in which case the US government settles with the widow for a million dollars and their deepest apologies. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/17 "2017-02-15T13:43:51Z")
Since no one here is privy to the contigency plans for the scenario in the OP (or if they are shouldn’t be posting about it), let’s move this to IMHO. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Debillw3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@Debillw3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debillw3)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/18 "2017-02-15T13:46:37Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > There are lots of Secret Service types around, both the ones you recognize and the ones you don’t. And they are very, very serious people. You would probably have to kill the guy carrying the football, and those around him are not going to be shy about shooting you, therefore, for fear of hitting him. Then you have to get outside the perimeter, also without getting shot, and get into a vehicle to make a getaway. The vehicle has to be waiting for you - flagging down a cab or calling Uber is probably not a good option. Then you have to get to a secured location, where you can issue demands and/or put the thing on eBay. Exactly. I really don’t think there’s a way to under-stress this point: The Secret Service have very powerful guns. They also have very powerful SUVs that carry several powerful guns and are rumored to have even more powerful guns mounted inside of them. They also have snipers on adjacent rooftops and perimeters that they can lock down in seconds flat. The odds of someone being able to take the football are essentially 0. The odds of any unauthorized person getting off the property with it ARE 0. In the grand scheme of things, it really doesn’t matter who can get close to the President or the football. What matters is what those people can do when they get that close. Despite persistent rumors to the contrary, the Secret Service is very good at their job. The answer is a resounding “nothing”. (As an aside, if you’re curious, look up pictures from the Reagan shooting. Before the shots are fired, there’s an agent carrying a nondescript briefcase. After the shots are fired, that briefcase is lying open on the ground and the agent is holding an Uzi. That was in the 80s–imagine what they have today.) > [@Colibri](#): > > Since no one here is privy to the contigency plans for the scenario in the OP (or if they are shouldn’t be posting about it), let’s move this to IMHO. Gotta say, we may not know exactly what would happen, but I feel like it’s it’s safe to say that: 1. the Military Aide won’t give up the football easily 2. the Secret Service won’t let anyone walk away with it Everything I’ve posted is factual, based on how the Secret Service handles protection since Reagan. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/19 "2017-02-15T14:29:08Z")
The Aide is armed. And under orders to kill anyone who makes a move. The Secret Service will have no role in protection. [http://www.hackworth.com/maxim012001.html](http://www.hackworth.com/maxim012001.html) ---
**Author:** ![Debillw3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@Debillw3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debillw3)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881/20 "2017-02-15T14:47:42Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The Secret Service will have no role in protection. Your link doesn’t mention the Secret Service in any capacity. And I can guarantee you that they wouldn’t just shrug and say “not our problem”. In theory, the Secret Service isn’t responsible for the protection of the nuclear football or any member of the president’s entourage. Nobody is arguing that. In practice, they will provide it if need be. If someone gets their hands on the football, the Secret Service most assuredly will step in once the President is secure. It’s no different than Air Force One–the AF1 perimeter falls to the Air Force, but if the Secret Service see you before the AF guys do, they’ll take action. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-nuclear-football/779881.md?page=2)