# Let's play Overrated/Underrated **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 7, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841 "2009-02-07T21:35:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/41 "2009-02-09T03:25:32Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Francis Ford Coppola. Underrated. Much has been made about the godfather trilogy, but he also gave us George Lucas by producing his 2 first movies. Regardless of what you think of Lucas now, he has had a major impact on the industry and pop-culture, so Coppola deserves credit there. **Queen** ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/42 "2009-02-09T03:37:12Z")
> [@DaveRaver](#): > > Guns n’ Roses are neither overrated nor underrated. They were the last of a generation of traditional rock bands and they had lots of good songs for the short time that they were together. Guns n’ Roses might be the best suggestion for this thread so far, because they are SO right on the edge. Appetite is one of the best rock albums ever. Use Your Illusion had its moments, as did Lies. Even the title track from Chinese Democracy is an excellent song. But the rest of their stuff? Meh. I think you are right, this might be the most perfectly rated band out there. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/43 "2009-02-09T03:43:38Z")
> [@HoboStew](#): > > **Queen** Queen is hard, because I think that they are generally quite underrated. Their musicianship, innovation, songwriting, performances, and just plain ability to rock hard were amazing. But it seems like they’ve been getting more appreciation lately–so much so that they might end up being overrated! But for the most part, underrated. And Radio Ga-Ga–totally underrated. That album is awesome! Annnd, here’s the next one: Rush ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/44 "2009-02-09T03:48:05Z")
Overrated, of course. They’re not a terrible group, but nothing about their work really sticks out. Mozart ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/45 "2009-02-09T04:09:27Z")
**Mozart** is not the greatest composer ever (that would be LvB, of course), as seems to be indicated by his revived popularity starting in the latter part of the 20th century but he is up there. His piano concertos flow very gracefully and his operas have it all. So, overrated relative to his reputation in the mainstream culture who haven’t probably listened to anything beyond Eine Kleine or the requiem or the opening of the 40th, but still up there. The Beatles. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/46 "2009-02-09T04:19:18Z")
> [@II\_Gyan\_II](#): > > The Beatles. Well there’s no way anyone is going to say the Beatles are underrated, so I will make the argument that they aren’t overrated. Here’s the main thing about the Beatles to me: They created the modern concept of a band. That is, a collective that wrote and performed their own music. Before them, there was a much bigger schism between song writing and song performing. Now obviously, they weren’t the first band to do this, but their success doing this is the reason 99% of bands today behave the way that they do. Also, as Allmusic points out, they occupy that rare niche of artist who were both the best at what they did and the most popular at what they did. I will never say that they are overrated unless they start appearing on dollar bills. **Frank Zappa** ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/47 "2009-02-09T05:35:41Z")
I’ll take Mariah Carey… Early in her career she was pretty right on, decent songs, incredible voice (seriously who else can screech like that?), but like a lot of musicians her later stuff sucked so her early stuff became overrated. Once she cashed into the “I’m pretty much a cougar now, and black guys LOVE me” in the early 2000s and moved into hip-hop she got pretty good again, adapted well. So her early stuff is overrated, and her recent stuff is underrated. (Since Zappa is on the table I won’t suggest anyone, and I won’t comment on FZ cuz the only thing I know of him is he named his daughter Moonunit.) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/48 "2009-02-09T10:47:53Z")
Zappa is underrated in the sense of a mass audience, even though critics generally concede his greatness. It is unfortunate that he never attained a wider exposure because I think regular people would like him if they gave him a listen. **Elton John and Bernie Taupin** (Please be kind.) ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/49 "2009-02-09T11:17:51Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Zappa is underrated in the sense of a mass audience, even though critics generally concede his greatness. It is unfortunate that he never attained a wider exposure because I think regular people would like him if they gave him a listen. > > **Elton John and Bernie Taupin** > > (Please be kind.) Elton and Bernie…underrated. They may be more pop than rock, but the combination of talent goes together like sunshine and a summer breeze. I love them. **Todd Rundgren.** ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/50 "2009-02-09T12:09:04Z")
Sorry to go twice, but I luvs me some Todd Rundgren. Highly underrated. Okay, **Mama Cass Elliot**. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/51 "2009-02-09T13:46:14Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Sorry to go twice, but I luvs me some Todd Rundgren. Highly underrated. > > Okay, **Mama Cass Elliot**. Underrated. Her voice was so pure and lovely. The Mamas & Papas was a little too “pop” for me, but she was a great talent nonetheless. **James Taylor.** ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/52 "2009-02-09T13:47:10Z")
Even though I’m enjoying this thread, I also feel compelled to restate a question/argument I’ve made here before: When we say someone is “overrated,” what do we mean? Overrated by whom? Does it mean that… 1. They were or are extremely popular with the public at large even though I don’t think they’re any good (e.g. 'N Sync or the Backstreet Boys, in their prime). 2. Even if I concede they’re very good, I think they get waaay more media attention than I think they deserve (e.g. Dylan or the Beatles)? 3. The critics praise them to the skies, even though they’re not all that popular and have never done anything i believe warrants the adulation (e.g. Lou Reed 4. I like them just a LITTLE, but man, the people who LOVE them are such fanatics, such diehards! They go so overboard, insisting everything their heroes do is brilliant, to the point I just want to throttle them, and scream, “They’re not THAT great!!!” (e.g. Rush. the Doors). Or perhaps there’s another type of “overrated” I’m missing. To use an example I’ve used before, look at the Sixties band Love. Critics WORSHIPPED Love, and deified their leader, Arthur Lee. Critics always put Love’s “Forever Changes” album on their Best Albums of All Time Lists. Now, I happen to think Love SUCKED, and that “Forever Changes” is a lousy album. So, is Love “overrated”? I guess… sort of… but it seems awfully silly to call them “overrated” when they never made much money, never sold many records, and are largely forgotten. Frank Zappa and Lou Reed fall into a similar category for me. I recognize the influence they’ve had on many other artists. I recognize their innovativeness. And yet, I find that MOST of the music they’ve created is, well, pretty lame. Since both are critics’ darling with small-but-rabid fans, does that mean I think they’re overrated? I dunno. It’s not as if they’ve ever gotten massive media exposure, is it? Should I really begrudge a not-extraordinarily-successful artist I hate a few stellar reviews, or the intense devotion of the small fan base he has? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/53 "2009-02-09T13:49:57Z")
For me, the rating is based on longevity, influence, and importance. I don’t think I heard a single song from **Love** , but I’ve heard that statement before. I certainly don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/54 "2009-02-09T16:19:46Z")
I think James Taylor is underrated by most. He was dismissed early by Lester Bangs, lampooned in Lemmings, and has had more success with covers than with his own compositions. But he continues to write interesting music, sells enough albums and concert tickets to make a very comfortable living, and apparently has the repect of some great musicians. Duane Allman ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/55 "2009-02-09T16:44:11Z")
Duane Allman. Underrated because I generally think a lot of folks think southern rock is not “quality”. Talking Heads ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/56 "2009-02-09T17:29:38Z")
I’ll tackle the **Heads** I guess, even tho I haven’t listened to any of their albums in years, tho at one time I was a pretty big fan. I’ll (at the risk of sounding wishy-washy) declare them to be simultaneously overrated and underrated. On the one hand, their efforts in the 2nd half of their career were kind of lightweight at the exact same time their public profile expanded greatly (thanks to MTV exposure), so on that basis they were overrated. Now however their rep has declined so much, in terms of how people today view the leading lights of the US punk/New Wave scene of the late 70’s/early 80’s, that it would be proper to say that they are now underrated-they did make some pretty heady (🆒) stuff in their heyday. On that final word in the previous sentence, I’ll toss out another 80’s New Wave band, **The Church** , a band which has been my favorite for most of the past 25 years. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/57 "2009-02-09T18:17:38Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > When we say someone is “overrated,” what do we mean? Overrated by whom? Overrated to me means that they have had more praise and airtime than I feel they deserve based on quality. Two good examples of each side from this thread are Nirvana and the Beatles. Both have had massive attention, but I feel that attention is deserved for the Beatles, while not quite as much for Nirvana. All of your criteria listed can be used as grounds, it is handled on a band-by-band basis. > [@astorian](#): > > To use an example I’ve used before, look at the Sixties band Love. Critics WORSHIPPED Love, and deified their leader, Arthur Lee. Critics always put Love’s “Forever Changes” album on their Best Albums of All Time Lists. Now, I happen to think Love SUCKED, and that “Forever Changes” is a lousy album. > > So, is Love “overrated”? I guess… sort of… but it seems awfully silly to call them “overrated” when they never made much money, never sold many records, and are largely forgotten. I totally agree. I never heard them growing up and a few years ago I read such glowing praise that I thought it would be some masterpiece and I didn’t like it at all. In this case, I would say they are indeed overrated, because in this case the overwhelming critical praise is not proportional to their goodness. > [@astorian](#): > > Frank Zappa and Lou Reed fall into a similar category for me. I recognize the influence they’ve had on many other artists. I recognize their innovativeness. And yet, I find that MOST of the music they’ve created is, well, pretty lame. > > Since both are critics’ darling with small-but-rabid fans, does that mean I think they’re overrated? I dunno. It’s not as if they’ve ever gotten massive media exposure, is it? Should I really begrudge a not-extraordinarily-successful artist I hate a few stellar reviews, or the intense devotion of the small fan base he has? I would say Zappa overrated, because for all of his talent and innovation his songs just aren’t that **good** , while Lou Reed is underrated because his (counting velvet) songs **are** good and the band was incredibly influential. I’ll leave **The Church** up there. ---
**Author:** ![pythonzzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@pythonzzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pythonzzz)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/58 "2009-02-09T19:37:47Z")
**The Church** is underrated. Best known for the hit “ **Under the Milky Way** ” from the _Starfish_ album, they’ve made many more quality albums. Member Steve Kilbey has also done many solo side projects, including a couple albums in collaboration with the late Grant McLennan (of the **Go-Betweens** ) under the name **Jack Frost** - _Jack Frost_ and _Snow Job_ Next up: **Crowded House / Neil Finn** ---
**Author:** ![maplekiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@maplekiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maplekiwi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/59 "2009-02-09T20:30:57Z")
I find Crowded House & Neil Finn neither over or underrated. Usually I don’t like their material when I first hear it, but it grows on me. I’ll nominate **Joni Mitchell** ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841/60 "2009-02-09T20:49:08Z")
Seems no one wants to take on **Joni Mitchell** , so I’ll throw **Tool** out there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-overrated-underrated/484841.md?page=4)