# Let's play "Spot the Sociopath" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 4, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892 "2012-05-04T17:03:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/41 "2012-05-04T22:05:25Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Mitt Romney? Based on what? Just the fact that he has been really successful in business and has remarkably few examples of sin or vice in his personal life. He must be hiding something. If he is a sociopath who just puts on an act to manipulate people, he has been plotting his entire life. Romney changes his positions more often than a nymphomaniac acrobat. He has simply no connection to the truth. He made his fortune dismantling companies, depriving the workers of their pensions and shipping the jobs overseas. That seems to me to be a sociopath. That he doesn’t drink, smoke or swear really doesn’t have anything to do with it. His inability to empathize with other people seems to be an indicator also. W certainly fit all the criteria. As for Democrats who are/were sociopaths, Lyndon Johnson comes to mind. As does John Edwards. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/42 "2012-05-04T23:53:08Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > The Green party kicked him out before the election because of anti-Semitic comments he’d made in an internet forum. > > .[/SIZE] Could a sociopath be antisemite as in having negative feelings about Jews? Wouldn’t a sociopath have mostly no feeling at all about fellow humans? ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/43 "2012-05-05T00:02:01Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > You can say whatever you want of him, but factually, much of the accusations about Obama are false. Please don’t pretend there is some equivalency here. The reason why many GOPers come off as sociopathic is because of them doing or saying sociopathic things. Pointing to a Dem and yelling “I can call him names too!” doesn’t make the accusation valid, though you’re free to make that. Just don’t expect anyone not already drinking the Kool-Aid to agree with you This is a joke, right? I’m being whooshed? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/44 "2012-05-05T00:56:41Z")
> [@Sacrilegium](#): > > _(Note to mods: I wasn’t entirely sure which forum this was best suited to, so feel free to move it if you think it needs to be moved)_ As a poll, I am sending this off to IMHO. (I realize that it has the potential to turn into a Pit thread, but so far the partisan sniping and hurt feelings have remained rather low key.) [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/45 "2012-05-05T01:01:36Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Romney changes his positions more often than a nymphomaniac acrobat. He has simply no connection to the truth. He made his fortune dismantling companies, depriving the workers of their pensions and shipping the jobs overseas. That seems to me to be a sociopath. That he doesn’t drink, smoke or swear really doesn’t have anything to do with it. His inability to empathize with other people seems to be an indicator also. W certainly fit all the criteria. > > As for Democrats who are/were sociopaths, Lyndon Johnson comes to mind. As does John Edwards. I would say his position-changing is a natural result of the _tremendous_ ambition that one HAS to have in order to reach high political office. His inability to empathize is easy to understand as a natural result of his upbringing. His father was an executive as well, and, I would guess, passed along the attitudes and values that allow you to actively damage middle class workers in pursuit of corporate profit. Not that I’m exactly judging that behavior. I think it’s like anything else, it can cause problems when it goes too far. So no, not seeing sociopathy. Extreme ambition and a very specific type of upbringing, yes. Perhaps even pathological ambition. Not sociopathy, at least not without more evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/46 "2012-05-05T01:26:16Z")
Thanks, **tomndebb**. It was taking nearly all my strength to resist the urge to post about 15 different requests for a cite. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/47 "2012-05-05T02:55:29Z")
I think it’s a fairly safe bet that _any_ politician in any office higher than, say, small town mayor, is probably a sociopath. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/48 "2012-05-05T03:05:49Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Romney changes his positions more often than a nymphomaniac acrobat. He has simply no connection to the truth. He made his fortune dismantling companies, depriving the workers of their pensions and shipping the jobs overseas. That seems to me to be a sociopath. That he doesn’t drink, smoke or swear really doesn’t have anything to do with it. His inability to empathize with other people seems to be an indicator also. W certainly fit all the criteria. > > As for Democrats who are/were sociopaths, Lyndon Johnson comes to mind. As does John Edwards. Oh, good grief. Edwards is a guy who cheated on his wife. If that’s sociopathy, you’ve redefined the term into uselessness. All of your examples are absurd, but Edwards? That so absurd it drew me out to defend him, and I am no Edwards fan. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/49 "2012-05-05T03:08:52Z")
The problem here seems to be that the definition of ‘sociopath’ is seemingly equal to ‘someone I don’t like’ or ‘I’m politically opposed to this person, so Q.E.D. s/he MUST be a sociopath!’. 😛 It’s is interesting to see who folks are asserting are ‘sociopaths’, however. Not really surprising, but interesting. -XT ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/50 "2012-05-05T03:43:45Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > And yes, it is inherently less likely that a psychopath would choose the Democratic party, as the attention to social justice and welfare would have no appeal to them. The thing is, intelligent psychopaths are great at observing human behavior and then mimicking it to deceive others into thinking they have normal empathy and emotions. It’s very easy to believe that a clever psychopath would take notice of how people like you assume that Democrats care about other people and use it to earn your trust. Similarly, I believe that many psychopaths are smart enough to see that people tend to trust people that proclaim religious belief must be good people and then use it against people. As for my nomination, I wouldn’t be hugely surprised to find out that Martha Stewart is a psychopath. It’s just a theory…I don’t even particularly dislike her. It’s just that based on what I’ve heard about her, she doesn’t seem to have much warmth or empathy for other people. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/51 "2012-05-05T03:46:06Z")
I can’t think of anyone I suspect is incapable of feeling empathy. Some people seem to be able to overcome that feeling for the purpose of personal gain, but I honestly think that hardly anyone is a true psychopath. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/52 "2012-05-05T04:35:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Oh, good grief. > > Edwards is a guy who cheated on his wife. If that’s sociopathy, you’ve redefined the term into uselessness. > > All of your examples are absurd, but Edwards? That so absurd it drew me out to defend him, and I am no Edwards fan. It was worth it to get you to defend him. 🆒 I feel a bit like a sociopath now. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/53 "2012-05-05T04:41:17Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Romney changes his positions more often than a nymphomaniac acrobat. Which has what to do with sociopathy again? > [@](#): > > He made his fortune dismantling companies, depriving the workers of their pensions and shipping the jobs overseas. Factually incorrect, but let’s put that aside. Is it your contention that no company should ever close shop and set up operations overseas? > [@](#): > > As for Democrats who are/were sociopaths, Lyndon Johnson comes to mind. As does John Edwards. Forget about LBJ for the moment, but what is the evidence against Edwards? I mean, I intensely dislike the guy, but that doesn’t make him a sociopath. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/54 "2012-05-05T05:08:27Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > The thing is, intelligent psychopaths are great at observing human behavior and then mimicking it to deceive others into thinking they have normal empathy and emotions. > It’s very easy to believe that a clever psychopath would take notice of how people like you > assume that Democrats care about other people and use it to earn your trust. Similarly, I believe that many psychopaths are smart enough to see that people tend to trust people that proclaim religious belief must be good people and then use it against people. > > As for my nomination, I wouldn’t be hugely surprised to find out that Martha Stewart is a psychopath. It’s just a theory…I don’t even particularly dislike her. It’s just that based on what I’ve heard about her, she doesn’t seem to have much warmth or empathy for other people. Right. As long as we are throwing out wild-assed conjecture, I would nominate many more Democrats than Republicans based on these weak criteria. Let me give you a few examples including former governor Louisiana Edwin Edwards and former Illinois governor Rod Blagojevich. Also include mayor Buddy Cianci who is the former mayor of Providence Rhode Island. All of those were actually convicted of criminal behavior and are doing federal time for it yet none of them show any signs of remorse except for the fact that they were caught once again. I am an independent but Democrats always seemed liike the go-to people for smaller scale corruption for pure personal gain that attracts real sociopaths. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/55 "2012-05-05T05:15:39Z")
I guess I am the only person reading this thread who thought, what is the clinical definition of a sociopath and how can you tell whether someone you’ve never met is one? But in case someone else comes along as unsure about the footing of the OP’s question as I am, I offer the following, from the Mayo Clinic: \Antisocial personality disorder is a type of chronic mental illness in which a person’s ways of thinking, perceiving situations and relating to others are abnormal — and destructive. People with antisocial personality disorder typically have no regard for right and wrong. They may often violate the law and the rights of others, landing in frequent trouble or conflict. They may lie, behave violently, and have drug and alcohol problems. And people with antisocial personality disorder may not be able to fulfill responsibilities to family, work or school. Antisocial personality disorder is sometimes known as sociopathic personality disorder. A sociopath is a particularly severe form of antisocial personality disorder. Antisocial personality disorder symptoms may include: Disregard for right and wrong Persistent lying or deceit Using charm or wit to manipulate others Recurring difficulties with the law Repeatedly violating the rights of others Child abuse or neglect Intimidation of others Aggressive or violent behavior Lack of remorse about harming others Impulsive behavior Agitation Poor or abusive relationships Irresponsible work behavior\ Based on the above, I don’t think Romney qualifies at all. Being a mere political liar with no empathy outside one’s own class isn’t enough. Cheney is more likely as he seems chillingly inhuman; there’s a reason why the left likens him to Darth Vader. I guess he would be a sociopath with impulse control. Edwards, dunno. It is hard for me to believe he is more than a mere selfish dickhead. His story is so small and squalid. Cheney has evil grandeur. ---
**Author:** ![living\_in\_hell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@living\_in\_hell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/living_in_hell)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/56 "2012-05-05T05:44:02Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I think it’s the relatively rare sociopath who is organized enough to have that sort of long-term success. Sociopathy is associated with an inability to grasp long-term consequences and general laziness. Most of the sociopaths I know have have sought classic parasitic lifestyles, usually using a mix of charm and lies to convince women to support them while they screwed around, pursued addictions, and figured out ways to scam just enough money to obtain whatever caught their eye that day. It must be a relatively small subset that finds the demands of celebrity worth it. Interesting. I found myself thinking about narcissism a lot when I was trying to answer the OP, and saw a lot of overlap in your post. The “commitment to longevity” component doesn’t quite match up, however. ---
**Author:** ![palacheck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a88e57/32.png) [@palacheck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/palacheck)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/57 "2012-05-05T07:24:23Z")
Ryan O’Neal. Watch _Ryan and Tatum: The O’Neals_. Oh and read anything about his past and the state of his “family”. You get the feeling that this guy is either a major narcissist or an outright psychopath. Alternatively, just watch [this clip of a “therapy” session between Ryan and his daughter Tatum](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6Kl9AfjDIg) or this [clip of Ryan essentially blaming his daughter for the death of Farrah Fawcett in front of millions of people](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABRQjjF5Mio&feature=related). IMO you can see the mask slip several times throughout each interview. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/58 "2012-05-05T07:36:12Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > I guess it’s not \*totally \*crazy to say Gingrich, though it’s still really unlikely, and we don’t have enough info to make any kind of judgment, and in any event he strikes me as more of a narcissist. > > Don’t get why anyone would say Romney. Being stiff and awkward in front of the press ≠ sociopath, and [his behavior as a leader in the Mormon church](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/16/us/politics/for-romney-a-role-of-faith-and-authority.html?pagewanted=1) is anything but sociopathic. If anything, he seems like an involved and considerate person on a personal level. Not that I’m an expert, but Romney strikes me as far more likely to be a sociopath than Gingrich. Romney is a chronic liar, denying his own past in a relentless pursuit of the presidency. Gingrich may be delusional, but that’s something else IMO. Santorum is probably too honest for his own good, as he just couldn’t seem to avoid saying aloud a lot about his crazy beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/59 "2012-05-05T11:19:22Z")
A sociopath worthy of isolated mention in a thread like this needs to be so good at hiding their pathology that nobody _reall_ knows what’s up. Mary Lou Retton fits the bill. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/60 "2012-05-05T12:21:06Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > The thing is, intelligent psychopaths are great at observing human behavior and then mimicking it to deceive others into thinking they have normal empathy and emotions. > It’s very easy to believe that a clever psychopath would take notice of how people like you > assume that Democrats care about other people and use it to earn your trust. Maybe. From what I recall, one hallmark of psychopathic behavior is that they never keep up that facade. Yes, they act nice in order to suck people into trusting them; then they use that trust to exploit their victim, discard the victim and move on. It’s a feeding cycle more or less; deceive-exploit-discard-deceive-exploit-discard. A psychopath could probably do OK exploiting groups like homosexuals, who are repeatedly fed promises to get them to vote for Democrats and then backstabbed once the politicians in question gets into office. Still, I’d think it would be much easier for them to function among the Republicans since the Republicans are _ideologically_ psychopathic. It’s got to be easier for an actual psychopath to hide among a group of people who insist on acting & talking like one themselves. Sort of like being a serial killer in a war zone; who’s going to notice one more corpse? The best way to hide a red fish is among a bunch of other red fish. > [@Mosier](#): > > Some people seem to be able to overcome that feeling for the purpose of personal gain, but I honestly think that hardly anyone is a true psychopath. A few percent of the population qualifies IIRC; more in prisons, naturally. Let’s see; [according to Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy) one estimate is around 1-2% of the population. > [@](#): > > Psychologist Robert Hare has been a particular champion of the concept of psychopathy, based largely on a characterization introduced by Hervey Cleckley mid 20th century. The Hare Psychopathy Checklist is a standard ratings tool most often used in forensic settings to assess psychopathy. A study by Hare and colleagues suggested that one to two percent of the US population score high enough on a screening version of the scale to be considered potential psychopaths. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892.md?page=4)