# Let's play "Spot the Sociopath" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 4, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892 "2012-05-04T17:03:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/61 "2012-05-05T12:22:46Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > His inability to empathize is easy to understand as a natural result of his upbringing. Someone who was truly raised to not have empathy I would still classify as a sociopath. Sociopathy is a personality disorder. It’s not a mental deficiency. It very well can be influenced by upbringing. Whether this applies to Romney, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/62 "2012-05-05T13:15:30Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Antisocial personality disorder symptoms may include: > > Disregard for right and wrong > Persistent lying or deceit > **Using charm or wit to manipulate others** > Recurring difficulties with the law > Repeatedly violating the rights of others > Child abuse or neglect > Intimidation of others > Aggressive or violent behavior > Lack of remorse about harming others > Impulsive behavior > Agitation > Poor or abusive relationships > Irresponsible work behavior Emphasis added. Well, that rules out Romney right there! ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/63 "2012-05-05T15:40:13Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > The thing is, intelligent psychopaths are great at observing human behavior and then mimicking it to deceive others into thinking they have normal empathy and emotions. > It’s very easy to believe that a clever psychopath would take notice of how people like you > assume that Democrats care about other people and use it to earn your trust. Similarly, I believe that many psychopaths are smart enough to see that people tend to trust people that proclaim religious belief must be good people and then use it against people. I agree, but I would say it depends mostly on what is the reigning party and ideology. A (high functioning) sociopath in New York City would probably join the Democratic Party; a (high functioning) sociopath in Boise would probably join the Republican Party. A (high functioning) sociopath in Muskogee would probably be careful to go to church every week. A (high functioning) sociopath in Russia in the 1920s would have joined the Communist Party. In any event, a (high functioning) sociopath would probably pretend to hold fast to whatever the popular beliefs are. If he lived on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, you can bet he will profess support for gay marriage, environmentalism, social justice, and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/64 "2012-05-05T16:05:08Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I agree with both Cheney and Gingrich. I actually find it unlikely that either Cheney or Gingrich are Sociopaths. Actually the politician I think is most likely to be a sociopath is Bill Clinton. I never got the feeling that anything he said was derived from any inner conviction rather than a calculation or political advantage. Also his treatment of women seems to display classic sociopathic behavior. Cheney seems to be totally uninterested in hiding his inner nature and Gingrich often seems far too forthcoming about his ideas. The fact that you hate and detest their ideas doesn’t make them sociopaths. A person who never says anything you disagree with is a far more likely sociopath. Broadcast News: > [@](#): > > Aaron Altman: What do you think the Devil is going to look like if he’s around? Nobody is going to be taken in if he has a long, red, pointy tail. No. I’m semi-serious here. He will look attractive and he will be nice and helpful and he will get a job where he influences a great God-fearing nation and he will never do an evil thing… he will just bit by little bit lower standards where they are important. Just coax along flash over substance… Just a tiny bit. And he will talk about all of us really being salesmen. And he’ll get all the great women. Of course, this doesn’t mean that a sociopath might not make a decent president. Carter was a honest, earnest man and our worst president in recent memory. It might be an interesting discussion about whether a non-sociopath can actually be elected president anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/65 "2012-05-05T16:21:45Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I actually find it unlikely that either Cheney or Gingrich are Sociopaths. Actually the politician I think is most likely to be a sociopath is Bill Clinton. I never got the feeling that anything he said was derived from any inner conviction rather than a calculation or political advantage. Also his treatment of women seems to display classic sociopathic behavior. What about it displays classic sociopathic behavior? > [@](#): > > Of course, this doesn’t mean that a sociopath might not make a decent president. Carter was a honest, earnest man and our worst president in recent memory. It might be an interesting discussion about whether a non-sociopath can actually be elected president anymore. I think actual honest-to-goodness sociopaths only succeed in fooling people for short periods of time. The more scrutiny on them, the worse they function. This is why they have a hard time keeping a job, or obeying the law, or having long term friendships or relationships. I seriously doubt a sociopath could end up in the presidency. ---
**Author:** ![DearestDane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@DearestDane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DearestDane)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/66 "2012-05-05T16:47:35Z")
Max Mosley, mostly based on the completely erratic way that he led the FIA. Of those politicians I have seen mentioned, Rod Blagojevich strikes me as a very obvious example. Did anyone mention Richard Nixon? ---
**Author:** ![Imago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85e7bf/32.png) [@Imago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imago)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/67 "2012-05-05T19:11:35Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > I think there are several confounding variables: > > 1. Extremely successful/wealthy people tend to forget what it was like to be poor/young/etc.. They have much more trouble empathizing with the downtrodden because they simply can’t remember. > > 2. People who grow up rich, like Romney, never knew what it was like to be poor or have bad luck in life. They have even MORE trouble empathizing with the downtrodden. > > 3. People who are very successful for many years can start to assume that their success is all about skill and hard work, and has nothing to do with luck. This leads them to start assuming that people who AREN’T successful are 100% at fault. > > 4. The kind of ambition that lets you become a president/CEO just doesn’t leave a lot of time or room for self-reflection or self-flagellation. Broadly put, it’s hard to be Buddha AND Bill Gates in the same lifetime. > True sociopaths can actually be fairly successful in the world. John Wayne Gacy, Dennis Rader, and Andrei Chikatilo come to mind. Yes, most serial killers are so obviously weird that noone wants to marry them, give them good jobs, be friends with them, etc., but that’s not always true. The thing that takes these guys down is their habit of killing, not the fact, specifically, that they are sociopaths. > > It stands to reason that sociopaths who _aren’t_ natural serial killers could, in some cases, rise quite high in society. Since they aren’t spending time and energy on planning murders, hiding the bodies, fantasizing about murder, etc., they have time for other things, like their careers. > > However, I doubt Romney or even Cheney are actually sociopaths. Romney seems like a typical CEO type, with a side of Good Mormon Boy, and a heavy dash of Born-Rich. Not a bad guy, at heart, but not, by upbringing, able to really empathize with minorities or the poor. > > Cheney just seems greedy, ambitious, and perhaps a little fanatical. I imagine he has a conscience, and would feel bad if he hurt someone that he loved, like his daughter, but I imagine the group of people he would feel bad about hurting is _very_ small. Not really a sociopath, though, just lucky and very, very serious about money. He also seems to be in love with the NeoCon agenda. Psychopaths are born, sociopaths are made. You’ve explained quite well why Romney and Cheney aren’t likely to be psychopaths- but you’ve pretty much outlined exactly why Romney is a sociopath. ---
**Author:** ![Imago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85e7bf/32.png) [@Imago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imago)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/68 "2012-05-05T19:13:42Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Could a sociopath be antisemite as in having negative feelings about Jews? Wouldn’t a sociopath have mostly no feeling at all about fellow humans? There is no neurological disorder that results in “I have no emotions”. A sociopath would have no feeling at all about fellow humans if said sociopath already had everything they wanted. When they don’t get what they want, they start looking for someone to blame. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/69 "2012-05-05T20:54:42Z")
> [@Imago](#): > > There is no neurological disorder that results in “I have no emotions”. Yes there are such disorders (and brain damage), and at one point such people were called “sociopaths”; as someone said above though I think the definition has been changed since then. Such people are unlikely to become leaders in politics or anything else however, as they don’t function very well in society. An emotionless person can’t even win a card game, much less rise to power; they by definition _don’t care_ if they win so they don’t try. And they don’t hide what they are because, again, they are incapable of caring. People can also lose some emotions not all; I recall reading of a brain damaged woman who was incapable of fear towards other people, and as a result was incapable of functioning in society without being taken advantage of. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/70 "2012-05-05T22:02:52Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > What about it displays classic sociopathic behavior? Going by the list in #55 > [@](#): > > Disregard for right and wrong > Persistent lying or deceit > Using charm or wit to manipulate others > Repeatedly violating the rights of others > Lack of remorse about harming others > Impulsive behavior > Poor or abusive relationships > Irresponsible work behavior All of these would fit Bill Clinton pretty well. Too many people, even Gingrich were taken in by his charm. The way he trashed the women he slept with when they came forward is classic sociopath behavior. Most politicians just don’t have that kind of chutzpah. > [@](#): > > I think actual honest-to-goodness sociopaths only succeed in fooling people for short periods of time. The more scrutiny on them, the worse they function. This is why they have a hard time keeping a job, or obeying the law, or having long term friendships or relationships. I seriously doubt a sociopath could end up in the presidency. You are only describing stupid sociopaths. A saying I use, “Stupid sociopaths go to prison. Smart sociopaths go to law school.” It is interesting to note that Romney and Obama both graduated from Harvard Law. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/71 "2012-05-05T23:44:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Which has what to do with sociopathy again? > Factually incorrect, but let’s put that aside. Is it your contention that no company should ever close shop and set up operations overseas? > > Forget about LBJ for the moment, but what is the evidence against Edwards? I mean, I intensely dislike the guy, but that doesn’t make him a sociopath. > **[The meaning of Bain](https://www.economist.com/democracy-in-america/2012/01/13/the-meaning-of-bain)** > > When the GOP nominates a private-equity CEO for president, this is one of the discussions we're naturally going to have Look, nymphomanic acrobats aren’t sociopaths. I’m sorry that you misunderstood. I am all in favor of n.a.'s. They do not intersect with sociopaths in a Venn diagram. I was referring to the frequency with which Willard Romney changes what he says to please the crowd he is in front of. Yeah, politicians change their positions a lot. Churchill was a conservative, liberal and then conservative again. Kerry voted for/against things in committee that he later voted the other way on the floor. I’ve seen a lot of flip-flopping in my life observing politics. But Rmoney can take several conflicting positions in a single afternoon. He makes Dick Nixon look absolutely principled by comparison. You are entitled to believe that your opinion constitutes facts. But that dosn’t make it so. [The meaning of Bain](http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/01/mitt-romneys-background)[http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/blog/2012/01/13/bain-makes-a-man-take-things-over/](http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/blog/2012/01/13/bain-makes-a-man-take-things-over/) Newt isn’t often correct, but he was absolutely correct in calling Rmoney a vulture capitalist. While he may not have exclusively feasted off the carcasses of companies that Bain brought down, there were plenty that they destroyed. You’ll get to meet the workers of those companies this fall during the commercials, who will give testimonials on how their companies were destroyed along with their pensions. That he likes firing people is obvious. That he is so clueless as to say it out loud indicates a complete inability to empathize. The one time he should probably keep the truth to himself, he blurts it out like enjoying the misery of the less fortunate is a badge of power. As for Edwards, a man that cheats on his wife is a candidate for sociopath. When he convinces rich allies to give hundreds of thousands to keep it from coming out, all the while running for president and denying patrimony of a child strikes me as sociopathic. Unlike you and Bricker, I despise his self-centered sociopathic tendencies. I rather like his politics. I can despise someone’s politics, but like them as a person. WF Buckley was a lot of fun and likeable, even when gasbagging. I was, of course, unaware, that your personal dislike for a person was a criteria for sociopathy. ---
**Author:** ![scratch\_llll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@scratch\_llll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scratch_llll)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2012, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/72 "2012-05-06T05:09:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > All of your examples are absurd, but Edwards? That so absurd it drew me out to defend him, and I am no Edwards fan. I don’t think it is. He didn’t just cheat on his wife. He cheated on his _dying_ wife. Just cheating on your wife could make one an uncaring narcissist but to do so on a woman who has stuck by your side through tough campaigns and loved you and then when needed most is cast aside like stale bread is unfeeling to a vast degree. Accusing Obama is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/73 "2012-05-06T23:14:20Z")
> [@Imago](#): > > Psychopaths are born, sociopaths are made. You’ve explained quite well why Romney and Cheney aren’t likely to be psychopaths- but you’ve pretty much outlined exactly why Romney is a sociopath. I am not following. You seem to have contradicted yourself. The most current example of a politician that I would call a true sociopath is former governor Rod Blagojevich of Illinois (D). The man has no conscience other than his own misguided ambitions and he is thankfully doing a long federal sentence for it now. You would think he would have taken a hint from all the other Illinois politicians doing time for the same type of behavior but he took it to a new level of low by trying to sell Obama’s vacated Senate seat to the highest bidder as part of his own grand plan to eventually become President himself. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/74 "2012-05-07T00:55:30Z")
> [@DearestDane](#): > > Max Mosley :::::hijack:::: I often walk past a law office entitled “Law Offices of Mosley and Ellis”. If I were a sociopath, I’d sneak there late at night and rearrange the letters to say “Law Offices of Mos Eisley”. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/75 "2012-05-07T01:00:22Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > All of these would fit Bill Clinton pretty well. Too many people, even Gingrich were taken in by his charm. The way he trashed the women he slept with when they came forward is classic sociopath behavior. Hardly; there’s nothing particularly sociopathic about “trashing” women who are being used as weapons by your political enemies. And why aren’t the _women_ sociopathic for doing so? If one is sociopathic, then so is the other. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/76 "2012-05-07T01:14:48Z")
> [@scratch\_llll](#): > > I don’t think it is. He didn’t just cheat on his wife. He cheated on his _dying_ wife. Just cheating on your wife could make one an uncaring narcissist but to do so on a woman who has stuck by your side through tough campaigns and loved you and then when needed most is cast aside like stale bread is unfeeling to a vast degree. > > Accusing Obama is absurd. Here’s the thing, contrary to my own opinion about Edwards, but I don’t think a person cheating on a spouse, even a dying spouse, is necessarily a sociopath. It’s something some people do. But the whole way it came out with the money buying cover up, whether legal or not (I suspect not) and they very lavish lifestyle he lives suggests lack of empathy and just large scale assholeness. Contrast that with Steve Jobs (good candidate for sociopath) and he lived a modest lifestyle. Not quite as modest as Warren Buffet. I think the whole picture matters. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/77 "2012-05-07T02:18:50Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Hardly; there’s nothing particularly sociopathic about “trashing” women who are being used as weapons by your political enemies. And why aren’t the _women_ sociopathic for doing so? If one is sociopathic, then so is the other. So your position is that Bill Clinton isn’t a sociopath but every woman that he had sex with is? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/78 "2012-05-07T02:32:28Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > So your position is that Bill Clinton isn’t a sociopath but every woman that he had sex with is? That isn’t what he said. He said it would be a double standard to call one a sociopath and not the other because it wasn’t a victim-prey relationship. I am sure Monica Lewinsky and Jennifer Flowers among others had their own reasons for wanting to blow or sleep with a powerful man. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/79 "2012-05-07T06:15:38Z")
This thread has convinced me that most politicians are dicks and pretty much none of them are actual sociopaths (unless, of course, one doesn’t like them.) ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892/80 "2012-05-07T09:03:44Z")
Gene Simmons Saw an episode or two of his reality show, he doesn’t seem to think like a normal person would. I mean before he would take his kid to the zoo he’d first consult with his PR people, they advise instead to go ice skating so he will do that. I have never seen show any genuine warmth or emotion towards his wife or children. I don’t know if he is a sociopath but something is off about the guy, and he is one of the few people I’d feel uncomfortable being around. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-play-spot-the-sociopath/620892.md?page=5)