# Let's pretend Norman Hsu is a Republican **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2007, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382 "2007-09-07T16:54:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2007, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/41 "2007-09-07T20:15:38Z")
[QUOTE=Evil One] Did he break campaign finance law? If so, are the people he gave money to complicit? Shall we find out? [/QUOTE] Oh, I know if he broke campaign finance law, because I’m intimately familiar with all the goings-on on Capitol Hill without having links provided, not to mention having a degree in congressional law :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2007, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/42 "2007-09-07T20:18:48Z")
… Nope, not seeing the outrage. Criminal, unknown, now going to jail. Not directly connected to the campaign. Good call on the Clinton-Chinese connection, though, Moto. Forgot about that issue. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2007, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/43 "2007-09-07T20:19:39Z")
(Sorry, no comment on the OP…I didn’t even know who this guy was until mid-way down the thread) [QUOTE=Bosstone] There’s plenty of Republicans/right-wingers here who pounce on any potential failings by the Democrats just as much as there are left-wingers who pounce on the Republicans. [/QUOTE] Really? Who are these Repubilcan/right-wingers ready to pounce? This is a ‘just curious’ question. Haven’t seen much Republican/right-wing pounce-age lately around here so was just wonderin’… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2007, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/44 "2007-09-07T20:21:49Z")
I can answer the question in the OP. If Hsu were a Republican, he’d probably be getting a Medal of Freedom, be tight with Rove, and all emails from and to him would be lost or hidden under Executive Privilege. Happy? Oh, but if it turned out he had teh gay then they’d send his money back. A family around here, btw, has been found to have donated more money than they have in almost the exact proportions that Hsu did. They’re being investigated. Nobody is protesting, and nobody is blocking the investigation. Is there a proposal on the table to do background checks on all donors? Any evidence that any Dem did anything in return for the money? Or are things in Pubbie-land so bad that you have to start Pit threads out of desperation? Or are you pitting the Dem candidates for being ethical? If anybody was defending Hsu, or keeping his money, then I’d join in pitting that. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2007, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/45 "2007-09-07T20:40:08Z")
Can we pretend **Liberal** is a communist, too? That’d be more fun. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2007, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/46 "2007-09-07T20:47:36Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] My understanding is that Hsu was on the run for grand theft years ago. Sure he is a criminal and sure he gave money to Dems. What we don’t have is corrupt government officials taking bribes to conduct illegal acts. So yeah, republican or Democrat this is not that big of a deal. [/QUOTE] To be fair, at the State level, [two Democrats from New Jersey](http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hjdy23HooJJCPBHK9y2TSy75pu2Q) look like they’ve been caught with their pants down and wallets open. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2007, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/47 "2007-09-07T20:49:18Z")
Republicans are good at playing “Let’s pretend.” Let’s pretend this is a big story. Let’s pretend Vince Foster was murdered by the Clintons. Let’s pretend we’re winning in Iraq. Let’s pretend we’re not gay. etc. etc. etc. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2007, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/48 "2007-09-07T20:56:36Z")
[QUOTE=Evil One] I decided to start a pit thread on the subject because the intellectual double-standard on this board when it comes to things ideological is becoming quite glaring. [/QUOTE] C’mon, does everything have to be a Dope thread? Isn’t a little quiet enjoyment of scandal acceptable? (actually I was only dimly aware of this until the front-page story in the N.Y. Times today, which I was planning to savor over chips and salsa this evening. At some point I will definitely vent outrage, you betcha). By the way (and no tu quoque intended), is it true that Sen. Larry Craig has quietly accepted a big fee to be the national spokesperson for [this product](http://www.totoneorest.com/features.html)?\* \*Don’t miss out on the click-and-drag - it’s hypnotic! ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2007, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/49 "2007-09-07T21:06:06Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Really? Who are these Repubilcan/right-wingers ready to pounce? [snip] Haven’t seen much Republican/right-wing pounce-age lately around here so was just wonderin’… [/QUOTE] These two sentences are not necessarily related. After all, there could be plenty of people just waiting for a juicy Democrat scandal to break out, but there’s none to be had, while over on the Republican side, their cup runneth over. The two sides aren’t necessarily equal. That said, I can admittedly only think of two right now; **Evil One** , as evidenced by this thread, and **Mr. Moto**. I’m not saying pouncing on stories is a bad thing, mind; do it too often and it gets annoying, sure, but _someone_ has to bring these things to the board’s attention in order for discussion to happen. That Captain **EO** here did so by lambasting the lefties for not bringing it up is what makes this thread so very mockable. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2007, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/50 "2007-09-07T21:13:39Z")
I think the story is a non-starter…and would be so if it were a Republican supporter (though I’m certain there are enough loony-lefties that SOMEONE would have started a pit had the man been a 'Pub). I was just wondering about this horde of Republican’s in the wings thingy. 🙂 Anyway, carry on. I was just passing through… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/51 "2007-09-07T21:27:37Z")
a) Never start a thread with “Why aren’t there any threads on this topic?” If it’s such a crucial topic, start a goddamn thread about it. If you’re stewing about it for days waiting for others to start talking about it, you’ve got nobody to bitch about but yourself. b) As far as your linked to story, the guy had a warrant for grand theft of investors 16 years ago. I’m not sure how that relates to his contributions to Democrats. Is there some hidden link between the two? I’ll never suggest that there will never be a Democrat in the future who commits fraud or some other crime. I would argue that right now, the Republicans, rather than the Democrats are clearly engaged in the most scandalous, fraudulent or otherwise criminal behavior. I think that the numbers clearly bear this out. I would also argue that the current Republican party has overseen historic levels of wrongdoing, but that is probably a bit more subjective. I still think it’s pretty evidently the case. Again, I don’t propose that Democrats will never do anything wrong. I just think in this case a criminal has also happened to be a large contributor to the Democrats. But by all means, nobody is stopping you from starting any posts that you like. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2007, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/52 "2007-09-07T21:31:10Z")
[QUOTE=miss elizabeth] This was mean, and uncalled for. [/QUOTE] But the CONTRAST is what made it FUNNY. Yeesh! Would you rather he said, “I think you’re a cherished friend who contributes valuable insight to political debates here on the Dope, and you score a point for the Blues Brothers reference?” Did you get lost on your way to MPSIMS? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2007, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/53 "2007-09-07T21:41:02Z")
I’m a little surprised how few people here seem to be aware of this story. About a week ago, [the Wall Street Journal did a report about the Paw family](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118826947048110677.html?mod=hps_us_whats_news) - six adults, some of apparently modest means, who have given around $200,000 to Democratic candidates in the last few years. According to campaign donation forms, they all live in the same house, which was formerly owned by Norman Hsu, and in another story I read that one of the Paws once worked with Hsu. Timing-wise, their donations closely tracked or matched Hsu’s, but despite their generosity, the Paws apparently don’t vote much. The Journal said there was no direct evidence that the Paws were being reimbursed for their donations, but the suggestion that something was off lead to some of the candidates returning or donating away money from the Paws. That, in turn, lead to scrutiny of Hsu, who was found to be a fugitive. He then went on the run again, but was caught and is going to be returned to California. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2007, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/54 "2007-09-07T22:13:59Z")
[QUOTE=Bosstone] Why didn’t you start a thread on this a week ago, then? And I don’t mean a thread about how the board is disgustingly lefty, but a thread genuinely discussing Hsu? [/QUOTE] If you have your ideological compass on, you know pretty much how threads are going to go. I thought about it, but I was curious about whether those who would jump on him in a nanosecond if he was a Republican would do the same if he was a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/55 "2007-09-07T22:16:43Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] Not to mention that in this time of primary politics supporters of Edwards or Obama would be equally likely to jump on the story if they thought it were a big deal. [/QUOTE] They can’t. They are too busy checking to see if they themselves are connected to him. If they jump too soon and get burned, it would be nearly fatal. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2007, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/56 "2007-09-07T22:25:33Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] I’m a little surprised how few people here seem to be aware of this story. [/QUOTE] Apparently, I overestimated the level of interest in current events among some folks as well. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2007, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/57 "2007-09-07T22:40:41Z")
[QUOTE=Evil One] They can’t. They are too busy checking to see if they themselves are connected to him. If they jump too soon and get burned, it would be nearly fatal. [/QUOTE] Meh. It takes about 14 seconds to check since all the names of donors above $200 are publically available and openly searchable. And it’s not like those poster will be forever shunned if they should criticize Hillary and it turns out that Edwards also took some of Hsu’s money. The much more likely explanation, in my eyes, is that this kind of thing just doesn’t rise to the level of scandal in the current environment. Haven’t there been some members of actual GOP campaigns that have resigned because of criminal activity this cycle? I ask because I’m not sure; I (and I think the rest of politically active America) have been focused on issues like whether Alberto Gonzales lied before Congress, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2007, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/58 "2007-09-07T22:41:50Z")
[QUOTE=El\_Kabong] Don’t know how to break this to the OP gently, but if in fact **E O** ’s hypothetical were true, it would likely be less than ten regular posters who might start them, maybe less than five. [/QUOTE] I happen to think the number is a bit higher than that, but I agree with and concede your point. [QUOTE=El\_Kabong] I’ve gone on record several times that the constant contentless politic sniping that goes on here is one of the least useful aspects of this board. [/QUOTE] I agree. And exposure to it is what drove me to the attitude that led to the opening of this thread. I have enjoyed this board for over five years now, but the constant drumbeat of “OMG Bush is teh evil” is getting tiresome. I consider myself moderate right and therefore disagree with many of the political positions of the majority of the posters here. But I enjoy the high level of discourse and reading the opinions of the informed and amusing people who come here. If I wanted to spend time in an echo chamber, I would go to Free Republic…but I don’t want to talk to a bunch of people who think prayer in school is the burning issue of our time. So…I allowed the strident voices to annoy me to the point that I got down in the mud with them and started a cryptic and dismissive OP. I didn’t live up to the same standards of the board which keeps me coming back to it in the first place. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2007, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/59 "2007-09-07T23:08:35Z")
Would you folks mind a little fact checking? This story was “broken” by two of the most conservative papers in the US, the Wall Street Journal (since I’m not a subscriber, I have only **Marley 23** ’s summary of the high points) and the church-owned Washington Times. CNN swallowed that whole, with no further research. [http://mediamatters.org/items/200709060012?f=h\_latest](http://mediamatters.org/items/200709060012?f=h_latest) > [@](#): > > In fact, as the Times article itself later reported, Hsu has donated “$260,000 to Democratic Party groups and federal candidates since 2004” but has also acted as a “bundler,” soliciting friends and associates to make contributions to certain candidates with their own money. According to a September 1 Los Angeles Times article, Hsu himself and through bundling has “generated more than $1 million for Democratic politicians.” While bundling itself is not illegal – an August 31 New York Times article noted that it was “[p]ioneered in an organized way by George W. Bush in 2000” – it is “illegal for a bundler to reimburse a contributor,” as The New York Times also noted. > > Despite The Washington Times’ claim that “[s]ome of his [Hsu’s] donations were made through several people,” the August 28 Wall Street Journal article that first suggested Hsu may have funneled illegal campaign contributions to Clinton provided no direct evidence that he had done so. **Mr. Moto** seems to have such evidence, but hasn’t shown it. Clinton, Obama, and the DSCC have all said Mr. Hsu’s money will be given to charity. > [@](#): > > Hsu told reporters last week he thought the 1991 criminal charges had been taken care of when he completed his bankruptcy proceedings in the early 1990s. > > “I have not sought to evade any of my obligations and certainly not the law,” he said in a prepared statement. > > Hsu has not been linked to any foreign government, and the fraud charges are unrelated to campaign contributions. It is not known whether federal investigators are looking into his donations, most of which were made since 2003. Now, can we confine this to the facts? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2007, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/60 "2007-09-08T01:18:38Z")
[Quote=Evil One] My apologies. [/Quote] Words rather thin on the ground here at times, and I salute you for saying them. > [@](#): > > I have enjoyed this board for over five years now, but the constant drumbeat of “OMG Bush is teh evil” is getting tiresome. I’m sure it seems that way, but I’ll contend a) there are arguably things the current administration has done that are worthy of strong criticism, and one can’t really suppress the non-legitimate criticisms without stifling debate of the more valid ones; b) there is not and never has been anything like universal approval of the “Bush sucks” threads by self-identified liberals on this board (consider the general hooting directed at folks like the erstwhile **Reeder** , and to a similar extent, **DerTrihs** ; c) tit-for-tat just never seems to work out all that well. I’m just sayin’, here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382.md?page=4)