# Let's pretend Norman Hsu is a Republican **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2007, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382 "2007-09-07T16:54:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2007, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/101 "2007-09-09T21:30:33Z")
I agree it’s not an unreasonable hypothesis, but you need evidence. I don’t know of any. Do you? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2007, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/102 "2007-09-09T22:45:56Z")
[QUOTE=Evil One] We also have questions about whether he is a “bundler”, i.e. a money launderer of campaign money to get around campaign finance law. At least some of us do. Those who support the people he gave money to would like the “We are totally shocked and gave the money to charity” explanation to stand and for the rest of us to just move along. [/QUOTE] So? [Wikipedia:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Hsu#Donation_recipient_reaction) > [@](#): > > After initial reports of suspicious contributions, prominent Democrats defended Hsu’s reputation.[6][22] Following revelation of his long-time fugitive status, supporters began to distance themselves.[23] After Hsu fled the California justice system again in 2007, his contributions were renounced by an increasing number of elected officials.[22][24][25] Major candidates have not repudiated contributions from associates of Hsu such as the Paw family.[citation needed] > > The general pattern of reaction has been typefied by Bob Kerrey, president of the New School and former Senator from Nebraska, who originally stated that Hsu had been “a terrific member” of the New School board.[14]. After Hsu resigned as a board member,[16] Kerrey said the university did not do background checks of prospective trustees[26] and that he hoped that Hsu “didn’t break the law” [11]. After Hsu became a two-time fugitive, Kerrey remarked, “I thought that I knew him, but obviously I didn’t.”[6] > > One of Mr. Hsu’s most tenacious supporters was Pennsylvania Governernor Ed Rendell, who called Hsu “one of the best 10 people I’ve met.” [22] Later, Rendell said, “Though Norman is my friend and remains so, his failure to appear casts a new light on his assertions regarding the original [fraud] case. As a result I will follow other elected officials and donate the money he contributed to me to charity.”[22] > > In comparison, 2008 Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton disengaged relatively quickly from Hsu.[6] Her campaign spokesman did initially praise Hsu, saying “Norman Hsu is a longtime and generous supporter of the Democratic party and its candidates, including Senator Clinton. During Mr. Hsu’s many years of active participation in the political process, there has been no question about his integrity or his commitment to playing by the rules, and we have absolutely no reason to call his contributions into question.”[3] However, the campaign then quickly reversed course after Hsu’s fugitive status was revealed, announcing that “We believe that Mr. Hsu, like any individual who has obligations before the court, should be meeting them, and he should do so now.”[6] Hsu was an enthusiastic supporter of Clinton and was known as a “Hillraiser”, a status shared by about 200 other significant contributors.[27] Seems to me his donation recipients are reacting exactly as they should to this situation; and if Hsu was violating campaign-finance laws, there’s no evidence as yet to suggest any of his recipients were complicit. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/103 "2007-09-10T03:52:22Z")
If Mr. Hsu had violated federal election laws, don’t you think the US Attorney for Daly City, CA (a “loyal Bushie” replacement for one of the fired US Attorneys) would have indicted him and the Paws? You guys are making Mulligan Stew out of crickets. I’m disappointed in you. No election law charges have been filed, but Mr. Hsu is already convicted in your minds. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/104 "2007-09-10T13:58:51Z")
[QUOTE=AskNott] If Mr. Hsu had violated federal election laws, don’t you think the US Attorney for Daly City, CA (a “loyal Bushie” replacement for one of the fired US Attorneys) would have indicted him and the Paws? You guys are making Mulligan Stew out of crickets. I’m disappointed in you. No election law charges have been filed, but Mr. Hsu is already convicted in your minds. :smack: [/QUOTE] So because no charges have been filed, you believe there is nothing there? That seems to be your suggestion, and if that is so, it is a rotten one. Keep in mind that this story is but a few days old, and we likely haven’t heard the last of it. I’d hate for you to say things that will make you look foolish later. Let’s keep in mind that (to use a parallel case) in the 1996 campaign finance scandal, 22 people were convicted of fraud, and the first whiffs of this particular scandal came from a story in the Los Angeles Times in September, 1996. A DOJ investigation seems to have been opened around the same time, and broadened from an internal investigation in December, 1996. The convictions were wrapped up by 2001. In short, you have a screwed up notion of both timelines and the role of the press and investigators. Investigators frequently won’t find trouble until it finds them - int he form of a press expose on the subject. Now that they know about it, they may well be looking at this mess more closely, which might well explain the returned and donated contributions. I have tried in this thread not to accuse without cause to do so, and I think you should be similarly mindful in your defense. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/105 "2007-09-10T14:43:28Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] So because no charges have been filed, you believe there is nothing there? [/QUOTE] Jerry Lewis is an innocent man: [Veteran prosecutor assigned to Lewis lobbying probe forced to retire](http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_6821359) See how it works? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/106 "2007-09-10T19:14:08Z")
Incidentally, I went back to the Hillary Clinton [Hillraisers](http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/HillRaisers/) page, and Norman Hsu’s name is still there. Would one of you guys who volunteers with her or donates money to her kindly call her staff up and alert them to this? Much as I don’t like her, I really don’t like bad campaign staff work. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/107 "2007-09-10T21:07:35Z")
Try not to worry so much, **Moto**. Really, they’ll be fine. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/108 "2007-09-10T21:13:18Z")
[QUOTE=Huerta88] And if Occam’s Razor tells me this – it also tells me that the least-convoluted possible source for huge amounts of Democratic-influence-buying money begins with a P and ends with a C and has an R in the middle. Certainly, my reactionary Taiwanese Kuomintang acquaintances are not shouting racism here. They’re shouting, “The Commies are buying the election!” [/QUOTE] Oh come now. Why in the world would the Chinese prefer to have Democrats in charge of the Presidency and Congress? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/109 "2007-09-10T21:31:28Z")
[QUOTE=Evil One] Oh come now. Why in the world would the Chinese prefer to have Democrats in charge of the Presidency and Congress? [/QUOTE] Oh come now yourself. It isn’t as if this sort of thing exactly came out of the blue, given a well-publicized scandal from a decade ago - which is exactly why Hillary Clinton has to be especially careful here, as I mentioned above. Your protestations are pretty ridiculous given this history. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/110 "2007-09-11T01:53:34Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Oh come now yourself. It isn’t as if this sort of thing exactly came out of the blue, given a well-publicized scandal from a decade ago - which is exactly why Hillary Clinton has to be especially careful here, as I mentioned above. Your protestations are pretty ridiculous given this history. [/QUOTE] I was being sarcastic. It’s a risk when working with the written word and I apologize if my meaning was unclear. I’m sure the Chinese would be pleased with a Democrat president. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/111 "2007-09-11T02:25:12Z")
[QUOTE=Evil One] I’m sure the Chinese would be pleased with a Democrat president. [/QUOTE] Perhaps they will, but a Democrat could hardly be more cordial to China’s aims than the current Republican has. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/112 "2007-09-11T02:34:02Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] … Keep in mind that this story is but a few days old, and we likely haven’t heard the last of it. I’d hate for you to say things that will make you look foolish later. … . [/QUOTE] That’s mighty considerate of you **Mr. Moto** , and I appreciate your concern. Let’s just sit back and wait, then, and we’ll see if it’s me looking the fool, or you. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/113 "2007-09-11T02:35:29Z")
Oh? So he won’t sell all our missile and computer secrets and let Wen Jiabao have his way with Chelsea? ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/114 "2007-09-11T14:53:12Z")
Just so you know, “if things were opposite, I’d be right!” isn’t a very strong argument. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/115 "2007-09-11T15:12:17Z")
You may very well have made an excellent point. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2007, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/116 "2007-09-12T03:17:41Z")
The “you guys did it too” argument has always struck me as bizarre. “Bush just broke a campaign finance law.” “Clinton did the exact same thing.” “And what was your opinion of Clinton?” “Clinton was a lying thief who should have been impeached, arrested, and thrown into prison.” “So then Bush is also a lying thief who should have been impeached, arrested, and thrown into prison? You said he did the exact same things Clinton did.” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2007, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/117 "2007-09-12T12:33:11Z")
Actually, the argument runs more like - “Clinton accepted dirty money from a known felon. If she were a Republican, y’all would be jumping all over her calling her a crook.” “So what? Bush lied about Iraq.” Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2007, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/118 "2007-09-12T12:58:57Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Actually, the argument runs more like - “Clinton accepted dirty money from a known felon. If she were a Republican, y’all would be jumping all over her calling her a crook.” “So what? Bush lied about Iraq.” Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] Isn’t this just the Reverse-Sicilian version of the old GOP defense? I.e.: “Bush whitewashed the intelligence, launched a war without planning the occupation, stole our civil liberties, and hired a shitload of political cronies to botch our domestic policies! If he were a Democrat, you’d be howling for impeachment of his big-government, zero-liberties, no-accountability administration.” “So what? Clinton got a blow job and then lied about it… _under oath_!” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2007, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/119 "2007-09-12T14:50:22Z")
Unfortunately, on the SDMB the “Clinton lied about a blow job” line is nearly always brought up by a liberal. As in your case here. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2007, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382/120 "2007-09-15T21:53:32Z")
I just read a long Op-Ed suggesting that every donor on the west coast that funneled money through Hsu should be kicked out of the country. You might say it was a Hsu per California Donors Extradition Opus. (I cannot take credit for the phrase - read it on Instapundit) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-pretend-norman-hsu-is-a-republican/418382.md?page=7)