# Let's re-write the 2nd Amendment! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2000, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846 "2000-03-26T19:01:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Breckinshire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71c47a/32.png) [@Breckinshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Breckinshire)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/21 "2000-03-27T05:16:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by slythe: > **I believe that hiding the Barry White has already been covered by the Supreme Court. > It’s Cruel and Unusual.** ## Try telling that to 200 year old ghosts wearing powdered wigs. \*“Life moves pretty fast. If you don’t stop to look around once in a while you could miss it.” - Ferris Bueller \* ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/22 "2000-03-27T05:17:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by slythe: > **Would you go by his definition of “Freeman”?** His definition? Possibly. The accepted definition at that time? Absolutely not. (Jefferson did, after all, free all the slaves on his land) * * * ## If you say it, mean it. If you mean it, do it. If you do it, live it. If you live it, say it. Joe Cool ---
**Author:** ![SingleDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@SingleDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleDad)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/23 "2000-03-27T05:40:00Z")
Slythe: I’m _part_ of the evil “One World Government Conspiracy!” Didn’t you know? * * * If Cecil Adams did not exist, we would be obliged to create Him. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/24 "2000-03-27T06:26:00Z")
Uh, Joe? He freed the slaves. In his will. As far as the “Freemen” definition goes, I’m not sure that limiting the ownership of guns to white males who own land is gonna go far nowadays. * * * Eagles may soar free and proud, but weasels never get sucked into jet engines. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/25 "2000-03-28T22:12:00Z")
SingleDad wrote: > [@](#): > > It also keeps the philosophical concept that our primary loyalty is still to the United States and only secondarily to our individual state. Except that’s not the way it’s always been. Thomas Jefferson’s first loyalty was to Virginia, as was Robert E. Lee’s (and most others who were born before the Civil War). ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/26 "2000-03-28T22:30:00Z")
> [@](#): > > **Every adult of the age of 18 to the age of 45** shall be considered a member of the militia of the state in which he or she resides. As such he or she shall be **compelled to purchase and maintain** such weapons as necessary to exercise that responsibility, and **compelled to maintain proficiency** in the use of those weapons. Every adult? Including retarded people and blind people? What about people who aren’t Americans? Who will administer the registration process (so we can verify compliance)? What will be the punishment for failure to purchase? Will there be a different punishment for failure to maintain? What if you can’t afford to purchase? Will you use a new tax to give guns to the inner petty drug peddlers who can’t afford them? What if you’re too incompetent to maintain your weapon properly, will you force people who know how to maintain the weapons to help people who can’t? Or maybe have another tax to subsidize maintenance for spastics and paraplegics? Who pays for the shooting lessons? Are there standards? Who sets them and has oversight? ---
**Author:** ![SingleDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@SingleDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleDad)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/27 "2000-03-28T23:19:00Z")
**Libertarian:** Change “adult” to “able-bodied citizen”. Other than that, I would leave the details to the legislatures, a time-honored constitutional precept. 😉 * * * Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/28 "2000-03-28T23:24:00Z")
Great, Singledad! I can _use_ that one! When I get asked all those detail questions, instead of spending hours in reply and providing links, I’ll say I’ll leave them to the government, a time-honored political precept. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/29 "2000-03-28T23:32:00Z")
I’d still have trouble with the notion of being compelled to buy a weapon. We’d no longer have the freedom NOT to purchase a gun? _I don’t_ **think** _so!_ * * * Feel free to correct me at any time. But don’t be surprised if I try to correct you. ---
**Author:** ![SingleDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@SingleDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleDad)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/30 "2000-03-28T23:36:00Z")
Sorry, Lib, I was just being flip; it’s almost time to go home. I’ll have a more detailed response later this evening. Damn I love my job! 😉 * * * Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious. ---
**Author:** ![SingleDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@SingleDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleDad)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2000, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/31 "2000-03-29T04:57:00Z")
**Libertarian:** \*Every adult? Including retarded people and blind people? What about people who aren’t Americans? \* Good points. I amend my proposal to include only able-bodied citizens. _Who will administer the registration process (so we can verify compliance)?_ The state civilian militia administration. \*What will be the punishment for failure to purchase? Will there be a different punishment for failure to maintain? \* Whatever the current National Guard/State Militia uses. _What if you can’t afford to purchase? Will you use a new tax to give guns to the inner petty drug peddlers who can’t afford them?_ I think it’s not too much to ask that the government advance a low-interest loan so the citizen could fulfill his responsibility. _What if you’re too incompetent to maintain your weapon properly, will you force people who know how to maintain the weapons to help people who can’t?_ They’re called instructors. If a person is just too incompetent, they their commander would issue them a plastic fork. _Or maybe have another tax to subsidize maintenance for spastics and paraplegics?_ Able-bodied citizens. As amended. _Who pays for the shooting lessons?_ Do we not have the obligation to pay for the protection and defense of our society? Taxes, my boy, taxes! 🙂 _Are there standards? Who sets them and has oversight?_ The governor normally has command of the militia. The state legislature would have the power to set standards. This idea is supported by current law. I would add to my proposal, “under the command of the governor **and regulated by the legislatures of the separate states** ” Thank you for your constructive criticism. It has allowed me to improve my proposition. * * * Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious. ---
**Author:** ![SingleDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@SingleDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleDad)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2000, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/32 "2000-03-29T05:01:00Z")
**jab1:** Claim a religious exemption. Otherwise suck it up and learn how to shoot. You have an obligation to protect and defend your society. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2000, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/33 "2000-03-29T05:10:00Z")
Small prob, SingleDad. Is there an alternative for us non-violent types? Don’t want to spend time in the hoosegow, but I’m not touching a gun. * * * Eagles may soar free and proud, but weasels never get sucked into jet engines. ---
**Author:** ![CalifBoomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CalifBoomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalifBoomer)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2000, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/34 "2000-03-29T05:24:00Z")
SingleDad: When the time for consfiscation comes, I hope you’ll be the first one through my door. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2000, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/35 "2000-03-29T05:40:00Z")
Good ol’ Califboomer, just looking for an excuse to use the bang-stick. 🙂 * * * Eagles may soar free and proud, but weasels never get sucked into jet engines. ---
**Author:** ![SingleDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@SingleDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleDad)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2000, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/36 "2000-03-29T06:13:00Z")
**Slyth:** Claim a religious exemption. I would add, “religion or personal morality” to my proposal. P.S. CalifBoomer is now on my “troll” list. I’m neither reading nor responding to his posts. ---
**Author:** ![CalifBoomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CalifBoomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalifBoomer)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2000, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/37 "2000-03-29T15:04:00Z")
Let’s leave the 2nd Amendment alone. P.S. SingleDad, you still have a question to answer [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001595.html) :: ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2000, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/38 "2000-03-30T06:55:00Z")
Here’s my version of the 2nd amendment: “Each state shall have the right to conscript a well-regulated militia for its defense and that of the federal government.” This makes it clear that the states have the right to raise militias while leaving governments free to legislate the ownership of dangerous weapons in the way that the voters decide. The state militias would be authorized to help in defense of the federal government in case of war. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2000, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/39 "2000-03-30T02:26:00Z")
Short and sweet, Arnold. Would that be authorized, but not required? * * * Eagles may soar free and proud, but weasels never get sucked into jet engines. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2000, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846/40 "2000-03-30T05:01:00Z")
slythe, I suppose you’re asking about my last sentence “The state militias would be authorized to help in defense of the federal government in case of war.” Since I didn’t put that in the text of my “amendment” it’s not clear whether or not it’s an obligation I guess. I would suppose you could leave it up to each state to decide whether or not they would want their militia to join the federal army in case of war. Note that my amendment does **not** say that a state **must** have a militia. In any event, the state militias would not be intended as a replacement for the federal troops. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-re-write-the-2nd-amendment/17846.md?page=3)