# Let's reinvent the mammogram so it isn't effing torture! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 23, 2021, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901 "2021-06-23T16:39:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/21 "2021-06-23T22:37:11Z")
> [@jaycat](#): > > I have the same question about MRIs. Which are basically the same idea as an iron lung, albeit more temporary. They do have some of the ‘open’ ones now, which are better. The valium I was prescribed last time helped a lot too. But still, there’s got to be a better way. Not with any conventional technologies. The big torus that a patient is translated through in nuclear magnetic resonance imaging (NMRI) is essentially a very powerful superconducting electromagnet that has to be cooled with liquid helium, which images by fluctuating the field and then measuring tiny responses in the alignments of magnetic moments of the magnetic dipole moment of nuclei. A fair amount of the bulk of the machine is thermal insulation to prevent the liquid helium coolant from heating up but even with high temperature (e.g. liquid nitrogen-cooled to room temperature) superconductors it is still going to be a big, noisy tunnel that has to make many passes to get a scan of good resolution. The ‘open’ MRI machines use neodymium (rare earth) magnets but aren’t nearly as powerful and don’t provide very good resolution. The only way to really make the NMR device smaller and less constricting would need very fine control of magnetic fields, requiring either extremely compact and powerful coherent dipoles not found in nature or magnetic monopoles. If you can come up with a few magnetic monopoles, there are some people in Sweden who would like to talk with you about attending their dinner, and also a thundering herd of neuroscientists who would like some non-obtrusive way of monitoring brain states while people and animals go about their business rather than spending months training dogs to be calm while strapped down motionless in a clanging machine. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/22 "2021-06-23T23:01:37Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Stranger Uh… ok… ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/23 "2021-06-23T23:24:07Z")
There is a breast MRI procedure. It typically involves receiving radioactive contrast while you lie face down over a hole. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/24 "2021-06-23T23:27:32Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I’m also going to point out that while mammograms are never fun and not comfortable, not everyone experiences them as painfully as the OP. Me, for example - not fun getting it done but I have never experienced what I could call pain. Hmm, that’s interesting. Mine haven’t been excruciating, but i always end up with bruised breasts that are sore for a day or so. I wonder if the damage the damn thing causes might not trigger tumors, too. I heard there’s a less painful 3d one, but it’s not available at any of the places i am likely to go. Maybe i need to research that before my next mammogram. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/25 "2021-06-23T23:34:15Z")
I don’t know if I just missed it, but why is breast cancer harder to detect than other cancers that are often detected with x-rays or CT scans? Is “fatty” breast tissue totally different from just being overweight? With all the overweight/obese people in the US, you’d think that would make the news if they couldn’t detect cancers anymore because people had too much fatty tissue. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/26 "2021-06-23T23:46:15Z")
I agree it’s more pain than pleasure. As to the why? Good Q 4 @Cecil_Adams @Cecil_Adams_1 ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/27 "2021-06-23T23:49:02Z")
What about the women who don’t have anything for the machine to clamp and squeeze ? Women with AA cups can get breast cancer too? Do they just get regular chest xrays? ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/28 "2021-06-23T23:57:05Z")
Yeah, my wife always complains about this procedure. And she is, uh, ample. I used to complain about getting anally probed for a prostate exam, but they decided not too long ago [that procedure is no longer necessary](https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/prostate/basic_info/screening.htm), as a blood test is a better marker for problems. I bet THAT research was pushed by men. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Sponge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dark_sponge/32/121_2.png) [@Dark\_Sponge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Sponge)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/29 "2021-06-24T00:10:16Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > I don’t know if I just missed it, but why is breast cancer harder to detect than other cancers that are often detected with x-rays or CT scans? Is “fatty” breast tissue totally different from just being overweight? With all the overweight/obese people in the US, you’d think that would make the news if they couldn’t detect cancers anymore because people had too much fatty tissue. IANAD, but as I understand it ‘dense’ breasts and those with implants are the most difficult mammos to read. Having extra fatty tissue doesn’t make it more difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Ranch\_Dip](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranch_dip/32/5238_2.png) [@Ranch\_Dip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranch_Dip)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/30 "2021-06-24T00:11:31Z")
My last mamm was so painful. The bitch grabbed the pec muscle on both sides. I was bruised and painful for days. I’m not tiny. I told her it was painful and she didn’t care. I won’t go back. There is low risk in my family, and I self check regularly. I did hear recently that ultrasound is really the preferred option, but insurance doesn’t want to pay for it. And FYI, men get breast cancer, and men get mammograms. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/31 "2021-06-24T00:16:10Z")
I’m not old enough for this yet, and I’m grateful to hear this. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/32 "2021-06-24T00:40:37Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > IANAD, but as I understand it ‘dense’ breasts and those with implants are the most difficult mammos to read. Having extra fatty tissue doesn’t make it more difficult CBC radio has a medical show called _White Coat Black Art_ that had an episode about dense breast tissue and cancer detection. [Her dense breast tissue hid cancer for years. Now she's warning others | CBC Radio](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4824142) " Her dense breast tissue hid cancer for years. Now she’s warning others". It’s worth a listen. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/33 "2021-06-24T01:11:40Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I’m also going to point out that while mammograms are never fun and not comfortable, not everyone experiences them as painfully as the OP. I’ve had many, many mammograms and none has ever been as painful as this one. > [@mordecaiB](#): > > I don’t know if I just missed it, but why is breast cancer harder to detect than other cancers that are often detected with x-rays or CT scans? A mammogram IS an x-ray. The pain comes from trying to flatten the breast to get a good picture. > [@Ranch\_Dip](#): > > There is low risk in my family, and I self check regularly. By the time you can feel a lump with your fingers, it’s already pretty big. Mine was less than one centimeter and could not be felt manually. I was also very “low risk.” Fifteen years past menopause, no HRT. I suggest you find a better place to get your mammograms. Don’t trust self-exams 100%. > [@](#): > > I did hear recently that ultrasound is really the preferred option, Ultrasound is sometimes ordered after a wonky mammogram. It’s not _preferred_ as far as I know. It yields different information. The purpose of all these screening procedures – mammogram (x-ray), ultrasound, MRI – is to determine the need for a biopsy. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/34 "2021-06-24T01:22:26Z")
Yeah I don’t know if I can go through with this. I’m already terrified of medical procedures. I already suffer through the gyno every year with severe pelvic pain. And I’m not 100% convinced they are even necessary for low-risk individuals. > **[Routine mammograms do not save lives: The research is clear](https://theconversation.com/routine-mammograms-do-not-save-lives-the-research-is-clear-84110)** > > October is breast cancer awareness month. Women should know there is no reliable evidence that routine mammograms reduce death from breast cancer, and there’s good evidence that they cause harm. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/35 "2021-06-24T01:47:45Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I’m also going to point out that while mammograms are never fun and not comfortable, not everyone experiences them as painfully as the OP. Me, for example - not fun getting it done but I have never experienced what I could call pain. It’s not getting a hand slammed in the door sort of sensation, more a feeling of weight/compression than is uncomfortable but not agony. Putting breast tissue in the tortilla press isn’t more than uncomfortable. But the breast tissue extends a lot farther north than some of us might think. I wasn’t palpating far enough when I was doing breast exams, which is why I didn’t feel the mass earlier when I had breast cancer. In reality, breast tissue reaches all the way to the collar bone. It’s thinner up “north,” though, so a mammogram will actually pull the muscles as well as breast tissue between the compression plates when it’s checking that area. Maybe for screening mammograms, they’re not so concerned with that northernmost area? I don’t know. But let me tell you, it’s not a matter of a low or high pain threshold. When they have to pull in the tissue near the collarbone, it’s agonizing, no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/36 "2021-06-24T01:49:30Z")
I just had my 3rd mammogram (I’m 42) and I get the feeling that I have the exact right size and shape breasts for this procedure. Not too big and not too small and plenty of fat. About a C+ size. Every time I do it I think about how absolutely awful it must be for someone with smaller or bigger boobs. Or more sensitive boobs. And now I’m going to be worrying about women like the OP who have scar tissue to deal with. Ugh. I don’t happen to have pain during or after, thank goodness. I asked my tech last week if she knew of any male techs who do it. Cuz I absolutely cannot imagine going through that at the hands of a man. Like, gynecology exams are intimate enough and there are male gynos but this is a whole new level of intimate. Cuz it takes work from both parties. Honestly it’s like a wrestling match. It’d be so awkward, I can imagine scores of women would refuse. FTR she said she didn’t know any but she also said she didn’t know many techs outside her schooling. Do y’all’s clinics try to make the room as comfortable and chill as possible? The place I go has soft colored lighting and some art lighting and stuff. Like it could be a spa except for The Enormous Machine. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/37 "2021-06-24T02:01:41Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Honestly it’s like a wrestling match. Very apt description! > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Do y’all’s clinics try to make the room as comfortable and chill as possible? Not chill…but _chilly_. 🙄 I go to a cancer center with one floor assigned to mammography. Lots of little gray rooms-- no frills. I don’t want a spa atmosphere anyway. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/38 "2021-06-24T02:40:27Z")
I am at high risk (mother, sister, a couple aunts, cousins with BC) and get mammograms regularly. Have dense breast tissue and had to have screening mammograms and ultrasounds, so they really get in there. But although it’s not comfortable while it’s going on, for me the pain stops as soon as they release the plates. StG ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/39 "2021-06-24T04:07:16Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > I don’t know if I just missed it, but why is breast cancer harder to detect than other cancers that are often detected with x-rays or CT scans? Is “fatty” breast tissue totally different from just being overweight? With all the overweight/obese people in the US, you’d think that would make the news if they couldn’t detect cancers anymore because people had too much fatty tissue. My mammogram wasn’t particularly painful and I have huge boobs. The technician warned me for first time mammograms they have nothing to compare it to so they might have to call me back for a second round if they have trouble reading anything. Apparently I have ginormous but easy to examine boobs because my doctor said they are fine. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901/40 "2021-06-24T04:32:28Z")
Yep, I had one after my diagnosis. I placed my sternum and forehead on braces, and dropped my breasts into plastic coils, and listened to classical music while the machine clanged around me. I got the gadolinium contrast halfway through, and was warned that I would have a warm feeling in my bladder. Sure did; that was weird. My mammograms have always pinched a bit, usually when they do the armpit shots, but were never really painful, and the center I use is 3-D only. They don’t cost much more, and the accuracy more than compensates. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-reinvent-the-mammogram-so-it-isnt-effing-torture/944901.md?page=3)