# Lets shut down the highway, that'll solve all the problems! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 25, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577 "2018-07-25T19:24:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/141 "2018-07-27T17:36:24Z")
Ouch. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/142 "2018-07-27T17:43:43Z")
Savage but completely accurate. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/143 "2018-07-27T17:53:43Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > [like these assholes](https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-almost-forgotten-selma-march) Their intent was to march, not to block traffic. > [@](#): > > [like these SJWs](http://www.latimes.com/local/obituaries/la-me-anne-moody-20150211-story.html) A protest occurring at the establishment they were protesting against. > [@](#): > > [like this worthless sonofabitch](https://interactive.wttw.com/timemachine/jack-spratt-coffee-shop-sit). A protest occurring at the establishment they were protesting against. > [@](#): > > It’s lovely to have folks declare themselves so clearly for which side of history they’re on. and its disappointing to see that someone you assumed was rational does not see the difference between simply calling attention to your cause with creating a situation which at best inconveniences and at worst endangers the lives of of others who have no malice towards the protesters goals. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/144 "2018-07-27T17:53:46Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > [like these assholes](https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-almost-forgoten-selma-march) > > [like these SJWs](http://www.latimes.com/local/obituaries/la-me-ane-moody-20150211-story.html) > > [like this worthless sonofabitch](https://interactive.wttw.com/timemachine/jack-sprat-coffee-shop-sit). > > It’s lovely to have folks declare themselves so clearly for which side of history they’re on. I forget, did those single incidents change the minds of a sufficient number of people of all skin colors, including all those white people who did their part, to end segregation, or did people of all skin colors work together to win over the hearts and minds of a majority of voters? Assholes who block traffic are still assholes. Assholes who create a disturbance in restaurants are still assholes. Assholes who prevent coffee addicts from getting their fix run the risk of possible injury. It’s lovely that you prefer to piss people off, but changing hearts, minds, and votes requires the ability to ACTUALLY HAVE A CONVERSATION with the other side. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/145 "2018-07-27T17:55:10Z")
> [@Textual\_Innuendo](#): > > And **non-consensually stealing** that much time is okay because Is this because this “stealing” is somehow more egregious than other, presumably “consensual stealing”? :dubious::rolleyes: Why not just throw a few more superfluous qualifiers in there, to really heap on the negative connotations? Why not “lawless anarchist non-consensual stealing”? You’re a tiresome liar. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/146 "2018-07-27T17:55:44Z")
Nobody prefers pissing people off. We do prefer a just and equal society though. However we don’t yet have that. What are you doing to help move us to a place where nobody would feel the need to protest? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/147 "2018-07-27T17:59:32Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Assholes who block traffic are still assholes. Not surprised to see you call the Selma marchers “assholes”. So did Sheriff Jim Clark and his allies. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/148 "2018-07-27T18:06:00Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Nobody prefers pissing people off. We do prefer a just and equal society though. However we don’t yet have that. What are you doing to help move us to a place where nobody would feel the need to protest? We Pit each other. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/149 "2018-07-27T18:07:07Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I forget, did those single incidents change the minds of a sufficient number of people of all skin colors, including all those white people who did their part, to end segregation, or did people of all skin colors work together to win over the hearts and minds of a majority of voters? > > Assholes who block traffic are still assholes. > > Assholes who create a disturbance in restaurants are still assholes. > > Assholes who prevent coffee addicts from getting their fix run the risk of possible injury. > > It’s lovely that you prefer to piss people off, but changing hearts, minds, and votes requires the ability to ACTUALLY HAVE A CONVERSATION with the other side. …and happily agreement is short lived. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/150 "2018-07-27T18:50:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If they have a right to stand in the road, and I have a right to drive on the road, then I don’t see how both of us can’t exercise our rights at the same time. I might even slow down when I see them. Probably. What is it with right-wing nutjobs who want to murder people with cars? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/151 "2018-07-27T18:51:00Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I forget, did those single incidents change the minds of a sufficient number of people of all skin colors, including all those white people who did their part, to end segregation, or did people of all skin colors work together to win over the hearts and minds of a majority of voters? If I understand your opinion about the Chicago marchers, you think they can’t accomplish a darned thing; all they want is to attract attention. Is that an accurate summary of your view? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/152 "2018-07-27T19:01:12Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Their intent was to march, not to block traffic. As I read it, [they applied for and got a permit to cover two lanes of traffic with 300 marchers](https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/encyclopedia/selma-montgomery-march), but brought 25,000 marchers. In what meaningful sense was their intent not to block traffic, given that they brought 25,000 protestors to a major highway? As for your others, I don’t know what the hell cases doorhinge was talking about anyway, so I have no idea whether he’s looking at people disrupting restaurants when the restaurants aren’t the target of the protest. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/153 "2018-07-27T19:38:12Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > As I read it, [they applied for and got a permit to cover two lanes of traffic with 300 marchers](https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/encyclopedia/selma-montgomery-march), but brought 25,000 marchers. In what meaningful sense was their intent not to block traffic, given that they brought 25,000 protestors to a major highway? > > As for your others, I don’t know what the hell cases doorhinge was talking about anyway, so I have no idea whether he’s looking at people disrupting restaurants when the restaurants aren’t the target of the protest. I have to confess that my memory of that time might be fuzzy but I could have sworn that the news reports showed the march with automobile traffic still able to flow although slowly in both directions. In any case I would still assert that if MLK intended to stop traffic (I don’t think that he did) that his cause may have been just but his actions were detrimental to drivers who had no malice towards his cause. AS for the restaurant protests I was pointing out that THOSE protests got it right. Take your argument directly to the problem area. Get the attention of those that would sympathize with your cause without disrupting or endangering their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/154 "2018-07-27T19:44:18Z")
The “problem area” is the whole city, since the whole city votes in mayoral elections, and the Mayor is the one who has the power to more equitably spend development tax dollars. Therefore LSD seems like a pretty appropriate place to me. By the way, you all have spent far more time bitching on this message board about this protest than what you could possibly spend in traffic that day if you don’t bother to plan around the march. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/155 "2018-07-27T19:52:32Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > I have to confess that my memory of that time might be fuzzy but I could have sworn that the news reports showed the march with automobile traffic still able to flow although slowly in both directions. > > In any case I would still assert that if MLK intended to stop traffic (I don’t think that he did) that his cause may have been just but his actions were detrimental to drivers who had no malice towards his cause. Sure, they were detrimental to drivers who had no malice toward the cause–but the detriment to those drivers is eclipsed by the, er, “detriment” to black Southerners living under a terrorist regime. > [@](#): > > AS for the restaurant protests I was pointing out that THOSE protests got it right. Take your argument directly to the problem area. Get the attention of those that would sympathize with your cause without disrupting or endangering their lives. What about Woolworth’s customers who just wanted a burger but couldn’t get one due to the protestors? No malice toward their cause, maybe, but their lunch breaks got disrupted! Point being, disrupting business as usual isn’t just incidental to effective nonviolent action: it’s central. If nothing is disrupted, there’s no impetus for change. There are legitimate ways to critique individual protests, and in general I don’t know if this one is a well-organized, effective protest. But the criticisms raised in this thread are precisely the sort raised against MLK. If you haven’t read the Letter from a Birmingham Jail recently, [here’s that link again](http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html). I’m not a big fan of gospel, but this essay is damn near perfect in its analysis of nonviolent resistance. Another excerpt: > [@MLK](#): > > Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word “tension.” I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, so must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood. The purpose of our direct action program is to create a situation so crisis packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. ---
**Author:** ![Textual\_Innuendo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/898d66/32.png) [@Textual\_Innuendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Textual_Innuendo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/156 "2018-07-27T19:56:01Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Is this because this “stealing” is somehow more egregious than other, presumably “consensual stealing”? :dubious::rolleyes: > > Why not just throw a few more superfluous qualifiers in there, to really heap on the negative connotations? Why not “lawless anarchist non-consensual stealing”? > > You’re a tiresome liar. Not quite sure I follow your logic of “you used a superfluous adjective, therefore you are a liar,” but I’ll go with it. Based on similar logic and regarding your post above, I feel I can conclude you are an unerringly truthful scholar and gentleman whose debate skills are as steely sharp and razor honed as your mental processes. Kudos to you, sir. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/157 "2018-07-27T20:29:42Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Is this because this “stealing” is somehow more egregious than other, presumably “consensual stealing”? :dubious::rolleyes: > > Why not just throw a few more superfluous qualifiers in there, to really heap on the negative connotations? Why not “lawless anarchist non-consensual stealing”? From (individuals)! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/158 "2018-07-27T20:42:29Z")
> [@Textual\_Innuendo](#): > > …whose debate skills are as steely sharp and razor honed as your mental processes. Unfortunately, they pretty much are, but he tries his best. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/159 "2018-07-27T21:10:14Z")
> [@Textual\_Innuendo](#): > > Not quite sure I follow your logic of “you used a superfluous adjective, therefore you are a liar,” but I’ll go with it. That would be because those two statements were not related. Trying to follow the logic between two unrelated statements is illogical, at best. One was a criticism of your prose, the other a criticism of your honesty. > [@](#): > > Based on similar logic and regarding your post above, I feel I can conclude you are an unerringly truthful scholar and gentleman whose debate skills are as steely sharp and razor honed as your mental processes. Kudos to you, sir. > 😃 That is quite the compliment to someone who just called you out as a liar. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577/160 "2018-07-27T21:15:34Z")
> [@Textual\_Innuendo](#): > > I’m not a great test case here, because I actually DO live close to work, and timeshift away from the main rush hours, and pay significant amounts of local and vehicle taxes annually. I also 100% support higher gas taxes (although they’ll never happen), and actually miss the brief period when gas was near $5 a gallon for premium, because it actually helped reduce the traffic significantly. > > And this is largely because I, like most sentient beings, hate traffic, and have taken these and other steps to avoid it, and largely succeed in avoiding it. But in one of those unavoidable times when I AM stuck in it? I’d happily pay a half hour of my hourly rate (which is several multiples of $50 an hour) to be magically and instantly whisked home. Okay, so you hear on the news for weeks that LSD is going to be shut down for a few hours. You know exactly when, and for how long, and you are given ample advance notice. If you get stuck in that traffic, isn’t that really your fault? If not, then do you have the same feelings towards construction workers who schedule to shut down roads to improve them as you do with politically active people who schedule to shut down roads to improve their city? > [@](#): > > An Uber or a driver isn’t the same as instantly transporting yourself home. You’re still stuck in traffic, you’re still breathing exhaust fumes, your driver is probably irritated, and you can’t play with puppies / interact with loved ones / do chores / cook dinner, etc. It’s inherently less valuable time than “home time” even if you’re not the one doing the driving. It’s also not an option if you drove yourself there in the first place because it would leave your car stranded somewhere, but is something you would have to choose to do on both ends of your trip (and most often when I’m stuck in rush hour, it’s only at one end due to the timeshifting, living close, etc). Sure, an Uber is worth something, and I have taken them into core downtown locations on occasion to avoid traffic and parking hassles, but it’s not a 1:1 comparison. It’s still far better than driving yourself. > [@](#): > > Incidentally, I created a [poll](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=859476) based on this thread asking others on the Dope where they would locate a protest they hated. Ah, so here, you admit that it is the subject of the protest that you hate, and therefore, it doesn’t matter in the slightest how polite they are in trying to bring your attention to the plight of people suffering in your community, you hate them, so you will take exception to anything that they do. Given that you will hate them no matter what they do, why should they care what you have to say about it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-shut-down-the-highway-thatll-solve-all-the-problems/818577.md?page=9)