# Let's spend almost a million remodeling a DMV office, then close it down! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 6, 2010, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683 "2010-11-06T07:32:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683/1 "2010-11-06T07:32:13Z")
At a time when the state is supposedly broke, we spend $900,000 to remodel the local DMV office, and then close it down. [link](http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=7768698) Why don’t you just take our tax money, put it in a big pile and burn it? Oh, I forgot, the real purpose has been fulfilled. Some scumbag contractor lined his pocket, and will make the appropriate campaign contributions, so job well done! Absolute insanity. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683/2 "2010-11-06T07:39:19Z")
Few dodged the bullet there. I saw the tittle and assumed it was MA in the news again because it sounds like something we’d do. Glad to see another state just as dysfunctional. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683/3 "2010-11-06T16:34:16Z")
In a government facility around here, a large building was getting a new roof installed by a local contractor. In the middle of the job, it was decided that the building was no longer needed, and was scheduled for destruction. They told the roofing contractor to immediately stop the work. The contractor said no way… their contract said they were to install the new roof, and that’s what they intended to do. The destruction of the building had to be postponed six months. They could not proceed with the destruction until the roof was finished and signed off by inspectors. ---
**Author:** ![DxZero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DxZero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DxZero)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683/4 "2010-11-06T16:37:50Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > At a time when the state is supposedly broke, we spend $900,000 to remodel the local DMV office, and then close it down. > > [link](http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=7768698) > > Why don’t you just take our tax money, put it in a big pile and burn it? Oh, I forgot, the real purpose has been fulfilled. Some scumbag contractor lined his pocket, and will make the appropriate campaign contributions, so job well done! > > Absolute insanity. :mad: The state could sell the building or repurpose it for another government agency, right? Not that they necessarily will, but the building itself shouldn’t be a total waste. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683/5 "2010-11-06T16:42:38Z")
Happens all the time on military bases. Years back, the government/Navy closed the South Weymouth Naval air station…at about thye same time, the PX announced the building of a new PX building. They held the dedication (of the $6 million buildind) a few weeks before the base closing was announced. Your tax dollars at waste. ---
**Author:** ![Zulema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/db5fbb/32.png) [@Zulema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zulema)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683/6 "2010-11-07T00:57:10Z")
Sounds about right. They totally remodeled and added on to our DMV so it could handle more people but then started charging a fee every time you go to the building instead of taking care of business online. Thus they don’t need the larger building because everyone does business online or in the mail as much as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683/7 "2010-11-07T01:06:02Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Happens all the time on military bases. Years back, the government/Navy closed the South Weymouth Naval air station..at about thye same time, the PX announced the building of a new PX building. > They held the dedication (of the $6 million buildind) a few weeks before the base closing was announced. > Your tax dollars at waste. In Milwaukee they started work brand new entrance for the 440th Air Force base. About half way through they closed the base…the work continued until it was finished. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683/8 "2010-11-07T04:26:27Z")
Why should sunk costs affect the decision as to whether to close a location or not? ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683/9 "2010-11-07T04:33:22Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > Why should sunk costs affect the decision as to whether to close a location or not? Well, for one thing, the remodel started just a couple of weeks ago. Can you say “bad planning”? For another, the claim is that the reason they are closing the location is that they lack personnel to run it. But nobody is going to be laid off! They are going to transfer the people to neighboring offices to “handle the overflow” from the closed office. Now everyone will have to drive ten miles away to Pasadena or all the way down to Los Angeles. This was a busy office, that in no way needed to be remodeled in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683/10 "2010-11-07T07:04:39Z")
Your complaint about the staffing issue is stupid. They are short of personnel to fully staff this branch because there have been quite a few retirements, and because the current hiring freeze caused by the state’s budget crisis means that they are not allowed to employ new people to help run the branch. They argue that they could probably reopen the branch at current staffing levels, but that service would suffer, and that document security might also be an issue. You seem to imply that the lack of people, on the one hand, and the fact that no-one is going to be laid off, on the other, is some sort of contradiction. But that’s only if you’re a buffoon. They don’t have enough people to fully staff the Glendale location, but they recognize that the customers who would normally go to Glendale will now need to go somewhere else. They also understand that those other DMVs will now be more crowded because of this, and they have reallocated the existing Glendale staff to help out at the affected branches. It’s all completely logical. Also, even if the remodeling work started “just a couple of weeks ago,” the office has been closed since August, and was getting its first substantial renovation since it opened in 1961, including new heat and air, as well as flooring and furniture and fencing. You’ll forgive me if i don’t take your word about whether or not these things were necessary. Furthermore, if you know anything at all about contracting for state work, you’d be aware that the contract for this work was probably opened for bids months, perhaps even years ago. Projects like this don’t get authorized on a whim, and the renovation contracts don’t simply get handed to the cousin of the local DMV clerk. There is a tender process, with bidding and a whole raft of other requirements. The money for this renovation was probably allocated well before the current hiring freeze, and by the time they realized that they were going to have staffing issues the contract for the renovations was probably already signed off. Furthermore, despite the implication of permanence in your “close it down” rhetoric, the fact is that, while the closure of the Glendale branch is currently termed “indefinite,” it is not intended to be permanent. The DMV has said that when the hiring freeze is lifted, they will be able to fill the vacancies and reopen the branch. Of course, you will then no doubt start a thread whining about government waste, and asking why the hell they need to spend taxpayers’ money on another DMV office when there’s a perfectly good one in Pasadena. Sources: [http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci\_16471700](http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_16471700) [http://articles.glendalenewspress.com/2010-10-30/news/tn-gnp-dmv-20101030\_1\_dmv-glendale-branch-renovations](http://articles.glendalenewspress.com/2010-10-30/news/tn-gnp-dmv-20101030_1_dmv-glendale-branch-renovations) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683/11 "2010-11-08T19:30:56Z")
Welcome to the world of “cut my taxes but don’t make any service cuts, and maintain all the services I use close to my home.” Oh, and “balance the budget while you’re at it”. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683/12 "2010-11-08T19:45:39Z")
It reminds me of a story I read years ago-about a dam built somewhere in Alaska. Evidently, it was built with mostly Federal money-at the dedication ceremony, some politician quipped “if the dam is dynamited the day it is finished, it has done its job”. That is the mentality-it is somebody else’s money, so who cares? Which is why we have trillion-dollar deficits. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683/13 "2010-11-08T19:52:17Z")
Happens with air force bases here too. If they spend millions refurbishing it, it’s a sure sign that it’s going to close in eighteen months. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683/14 "2010-11-08T20:55:45Z")
Ah, the **ralph124c** mode of political argumentation. Here’s how to play: [ol] [li] Rely on some vaguely-remembered article that you read this one time, about a thing that happened somewhere not very specific, and where some unspecified person apparently made some shocking statement that shows just how fucked up our society is, and how government is ruining everything.[/li][li]Completely ignore the actual evidence in the specific case under discussion, in order to focus on your unsupported assertions.[/li][li]When someone challenges you, or points out how your argument does not apply in this specific case, either abandon the thread altogether, or bring up a different made-up example that miraculously comports with your own political worldview.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![congodwarf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@congodwarf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/congodwarf)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683/15 "2010-11-09T06:09:24Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Few dodged the bullet there. I saw the tittle and assumed it was MA in the news again because it sounds like something we’d do. > > Glad to see another state just as dysfunctional. Good luck. Would you be referring to the Southbridge/Charlton/Southbridge fiasco? ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683/16 "2010-11-10T11:14:34Z")
I just got my license renewed at the Pasadena DMV a few weeks ago. Didn’t seem like a longer wait than the last time I was at the Glendale office. (I mean, it was a long wait, but it’s the DMV, man.) Pasadena’s not that far from Glendale, either, and it’s not hard to get to. Plenty of space in the parking lot, too. Not a hardship. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683/17 "2010-11-11T21:27:34Z")
This crap has been going on forever. When I was a kid ('70’s, NY), our town decided to resurface all the streets that were potholed. Took them weeks to do the neighborhood. 1 week after they finished, they ripped up all the streets to put it larger sewer pipes. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683/18 "2010-11-11T23:18:03Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Your complaint about the staffing issue is stupid. They are short of personnel to fully staff this branch because there have been quite a few retirements, and because the current hiring freeze caused by the state’s budget crisis means that they are not allowed to employ new people to help run the branch. They argue that they could probably reopen the branch at current staffing levels, but that service would suffer, and that document security might also be an issue. Document security? How so? Better to keep the branch open and minimally staffed than to close it, though, in my opinion. > [@](#): > > They also understand that those other DMVs will now be more crowded because of this, and they have reallocated the existing Glendale staff to help out at the affected branches. It’s all completely logical. Which will be jammed anyway. Better to use the space in Glendale. At least there is room to wait inside. Some DMV’s have lines out into the street. > [@](#): > > Also, even if the remodeling work started “just a couple of weeks ago,” the office has been closed since August, and was getting its first substantial renovation since it opened in 1961, including new heat and air, as well as flooring and furniture and fencing. You’ll forgive me if i don’t take your word about whether or not these things were necessary. I was there not long ago, the air conditioning was working fine. The floor was fine, the furniture was fine. Fencing? Oh well, I guess nothing is too good for the DMV. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, if you know anything at all about contracting for state work, you’d be aware that the contract for this work was probably opened for bids months, perhaps even years ago. Projects like this don’t get authorized on a whim, and the renovation contracts don’t simply get handed to the cousin of the local DMV clerk. There is a tender process, with bidding and a whole raft of other requirements. The money for this renovation was probably allocated well before the current hiring freeze, and by the time they realized that they were going to have staffing issues the contract for the renovations was probably already signed off. For a remodel that was scarcely needed. Still shows complete lack of planning. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, despite the implication of permanence in your “close it down” rhetoric, the fact is that, while the closure of the Glendale branch is currently termed “indefinite,” it is not intended to be permanent. The DMV has said that when the hiring freeze is lifted, they will be able to fill the vacancies and reopen the branch. Well, that is good. Pasadena is a fair distance from Glendale, and the office was always very busy. Not a location they should be closing down. > [@](#): > > Of course, you will then no doubt start a thread whining about government waste, and asking why the hell they need to spend taxpayers’ money on another DMV office when there’s a perfectly good one in Pasadena. No, I will be happy they reopened an office that should never have been closed in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-spend-almost-a-million-remodeling-a-dmv-office-then-close-it-down/559683/19 "2010-11-11T23:49:29Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > Pasadena is a fair distance from Glendale :rolleyes: Perhaps if you’re going on horseback.