# Let's stop the terrorism double standard **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 28, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886 "2015-11-28T23:42:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/21 "2015-11-29T15:27:39Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > What a fantastic combination of blind optimism and ignorance of the historical record. Speaking of which, can anyone explain why the wikipedia page on Christian Terrorism completely fails to mention either the IRA or Northern Irish Protestant Militias. They would seem to be to textbook examples of 20th century christian terrorism and not even mentioned in the talk page? > **[Christian terrorism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism)** > > Christian terrorism, a form of religious terrorism, refers to terrorist acts which are committed by groups or individuals who profess Christian motivations or goals. Christian terrorists justify their violent tactics through their interpretation of the Bible and Christianity, in accordance with their own objectives and worldview. > Christian terrorism can be committed against members of other Christian denominations, adherents of other religions, secular governments, groups, individuals or socie... ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/22 "2015-11-29T15:36:36Z")
(reply #10 to this thread): > [@Nelson\_Pike](#): > > The Islamic apologists cross into an intellectual vacuum when they try to use abortion clinic bombing to try to establish parity between Islamic terrorist murder and other terrorist murder. > > Per Wiki there have been about ten- that’s t-e-n \*\* TEN abortion clinic bombing fatalities worldwide since 1990.\*\* > > Per Wiki there have been **over 1,000 Islamic terrorist murders so far in 2015 alone** , leaving out possibly 2,000 more who disappeared during a Boko Haram operation. That does not include any of the likely thousands who have been murdered under the most bestial circumstances in ISIS-controlled territory. > > Parity, anyone? Parity? Get real. (reply #18 to this thread): > [@j666](#): > > It’s all about the body count for you? Violence and terrorism doesn’t matter to you until a threshold of death is crossed? Others disagree, and some find attacking people seeking or providing medical help particularly egregious, no matter the name of the god in which it is done. OP began: “Attacks like the one yesterday at Planned Parenthood are terrorism just the same as any Islamist attack.” That suggests a fundamental parity between clinic bombing and Islamic terrorism. The body count provides clear-sighted, incontrovertible proof that Islamic terrorism is so vastly more of a threat that comparison with clinic bombing is stupid. And were I to categorize victims in your manner, children such as the 8 victims of 9/11 aged 2-11 would be the saddest cases. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/23 "2015-11-29T15:37:10Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Speaking of which, can anyone explain why the wikipedia page on Christian Terrorism completely fails to mention either the IRA or Northern Irish Protestant Militias. They would seem to be to textbook examples of 20th century christian terrorism and not even mentioned in the talk page? > > [Christian terrorism - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism) Probably because it was a nationalist and socio-economic struggle, not a religious one. No one was fighting for “religious freedom” or trying to convert anyone else. The IRA wanted out of Great Britain, and unified Irish Republic. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/24 "2015-11-29T15:44:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Probably because it was a nationalist and socio-economic struggle, not a religious one. No one was fighting for “religious freedom” or trying to convert anyone else. The IRA wanted out of Great Britain, and unified Irish Republic. The Palestinians want their own socio economic nation separate from Israel, yet all of their terrorism is lumped under “islamic terrorism”. Palestinians dont want to convert Jewish people, they just want their own nation, just like the Northern Irish catholics. How is this not a double standard? Protestant vs Catholic terrorism is still Christian Terrorism, just like Sunni vs Shia terrorism is still Islamic Terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/25 "2015-11-29T15:53:53Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > The Palestinians want their own socio economic nation separate from Israel, yet all of their terrorism is lumped under “islamic terrorism”. No, it’s not. > [@](#): > > Palestinians don’t want to convert Jewish people, they just want their own nation, just like the Northern Irish catholics. How is this not a double standard? Protestant vs Catholic terrorism is still Christian Terrorism, just like Sunni vs Shia terrorism is still Islamic Terrorism. So why is there such a big fuss about [del]The Temple Mount[/del] _al-Ḥaram al-Qudsī al-Šarīf_? There are both nationalistic and religious motivations on both sides of the conflict. It needn’t be one or the other. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/26 "2015-11-29T16:03:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, it’s not. The Wikipedia page on Islamic Terrorism lists Palestine vs Israel terrorism, while the wikipedia page on Christian Terrorism completely fails to mention Northern Ireland / IRA. How is this not a double standard? Both are nationalist / socio economic struggles. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/27 "2015-11-29T16:12:30Z")
I’d be really surprised if this guy turned out to be characterized as a “terrorist” in any way. More likely than not, he’s just a poor, disenfranchised, delusional whacko who finally reached the end of his rope and decided to try going out with a bang (no pun intended.) Planned Parenthood just happened to be a convenient target his sick mind was somehow conflicted with. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/28 "2015-11-29T16:19:06Z")
> [@Badazzshovelhead](#): > > Who says those aren’t terrorist attacks? You: > [@](#): > > Yes attacking planned parenthood is wrong but to try and equate what is going on globally with Islamic terrorism to plan parenthood is in short pathetic and weak. > [@](#): > > Can’t the people of Paris mourn a bit before all these groups try to exploit the tragedy? Can’t the people of Colorado mourn too? Can’t they complain about terrorism too? Who the hell are you to say that’s “exploitation?” ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/29 "2015-11-29T16:20:15Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > I’d be really surprised if this guy turned out to be characterized as a “terrorist” in any way. More likely than not, he’s just a poor, disenfranchised, delusional whacko who finally reached the end of his rope and decided to try going out with a bang (no pun intended.) Planned Parenthood just happened to be a convenient target his sick mind was somehow conflicted with. His act clearly fit the definition of terrorism. Being a “poor, disenfranchised, delusional whacko” doesn’t change that. Plenty of Muslim terrorists are poor, disenfranchised, delusional whackos too. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/30 "2015-11-29T16:21:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Probably because it was a nationalist and socio-economic struggle, not a religious one. No one was fighting for “religious freedom” or trying to convert anyone else. The IRA wanted out of Great Britain, and unified Irish Republic. But you could say the same about many “Muslim” terrorist acts too. They involve conflict between religious groups that aren’t necessarily motivated by religion. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/31 "2015-11-29T16:27:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Probably because it was a nationalist and socio-economic struggle, not a religious one. No one was fighting for “religious freedom” or trying to convert anyone else. The IRA wanted out of Great Britain, and unified Irish Republic. The difficult point there is that the nationalist/unionist divide ~roughly~ correlated with religious affiliation. The socioeconomic divide less roughly. The historic basis for all this _was_ real religious wars, [banners of which are literally still carried](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_walk). In the modern era, [“civil rights” in NI meant rights for Catholics](http://alphahistory.com/northernireland/northern-ireland-civil-rights-movement/). So there was an element of a religious-freedom cause. And of course Loyalist militias, in particular, were [known to murder Catholic civilians for no reason beyond their religious identity](http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-34307114). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/32 "2015-11-29T16:42:34Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > The Wikipedia page on Islamic Terrorism lists Palestine vs Israel terrorism, while the wikipedia page on Christian Terrorism completely fails to mention Northern Ireland / IRA. How is this not a double standard? Both are nationalist / socio economic struggles. Wikipedia is not the final arbiter of this, but if you take the time to read that page, it does go into the multi-faceted causes of terrorism in the Muslim and Arabic world. However, it would not be inaccurate to call acts of terrorism by [The Islamic Joihad Movement in Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Jihad_Movement_in_Palestine) acts of “Islamic Terrorism”. Islamist ideology is part of the mix in that region, even if it’s not the sole or even primary motivation of most of the people committing acts of terror. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/33 "2015-11-29T16:52:53Z")
BTW, you should feel free to edit that wikipedia page if you like. Go ahead and delete Palestinian violence from “Islamic Terrorism” and/or add “IRA violence” to “Christian Terrorism”. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/34 "2015-11-29T16:54:47Z")
Nitpick all you want but trying to claim that the NI/UK conflict had no christian terrorist justification while the Palestinian / Israel one is Islamic is a double standard. If I search for more than 10 minutes on google I’m sure I can find a statement by the IRA or protestant militias giving a religious justification for their actions. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/35 "2015-11-29T17:02:43Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > If I search for more than 10 minutes on google I’m sure I can find a statement by the IRA or protestant militias giving a religious justification for their actions. Go for it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/36 "2015-11-29T17:12:14Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Go for it. Time’s up! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/37 "2015-11-29T17:16:23Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Nitpick all you want but trying to claim that the NI/UK conflict had no christian terrorist justification while the Palestinian / Israel one is Islamic is a double standard. If I search for more than 10 minutes on google I’m sure I can find a statement by the IRA or protestant militias giving a religious justification for their actions. [This is probably where the confusion comes from.](http://www.religioustolerance.org/tomek34d.htm) > [@](#): > > A special chapter could be written about terrorism in Ulster: Between 1968 and 1998, **the IRA killed an estimated 728 civilians (most of them Protestants** – not counted are military personnel and police). This compared with an **estimated 864 civilians (most of them Catholics) killed by loyalist paramilitaries.** However, the conflict between the Irish Republican Army, the IRA, whose goal is to unify Ulster with the Republic of Ireland, and the three main Protestant paramilitaries that want to stay loyal to the British Crown (the Ulster Defence Association, UDA; the Ulster Volunteer Force, UVF; and the Ulster Freedom Fighters, UFF), **does seem to be inspired more by political ideology than by religious beliefs.** ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/38 "2015-11-29T17:17:47Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/39 "2015-11-29T17:31:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Time’s up! Sorry I changed my mind. Why should it matter if its Political Terrorism or Religious Terrorism? Both should be condemned. Blowing up innocent people because you want freedom from the UK is just as morally repulsive as blowing up innocent people because they are the wrong religion or because they go to an abortion clinic. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/40 "2015-11-29T17:39:11Z")
Pretty sure when I was growing up there were political ‘terrorists’ and religious 'fanatics. Then 9/11 came along and the neo cons started throwing around labels to suit. Just a recollection. This particular act feels more like fanaticism to me. But it is of course just a label. I guess now we also get a lot more ‘war crimes’ labelling - mostly political leaders. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886.md?page=3)