# Let's stop the terrorism double standard **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 28, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886 "2015-11-28T23:42:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/101 "2015-11-30T03:08:46Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Not these morons again. One, they have omitted the deadliest attack since 9/11: the Beltway Snipers, who killed 17 people as part of a plan to fund training Islamic terrorists. [Not according to Malvo](http://criminalminds.wikia.com/wiki/John_Allen_Muhammad_and_Lee_Boyd_Malvo) > [@](#): > > According to Malvo’s testimony, the shootings were meant to be a three-phase plan. The first phase was to plan the shootings, the second, which was intended to take place in Baltimore, was killing a pregnant woman by shooting her in the stomach, then killing a police officer and place explosive devices at his funeral to kill attenders. The third phase was extorting money from the U.S. government and using the funds to create a sanctuary in Canada for homeless black orphans and teach them the handling of firearms, a skill they would then use to commit shootings across the U.S. And even if you _do_ include Malvo (which you shouldn’t, because he was neither a right-wing extremist nor, by his testimony, an islamic terrorist), right-wing extremists _still_ have killed more people in this country than Islamic extremists. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/102 "2015-11-30T03:13:43Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Wouldn’t the next terrorist just say _“I think Planned Parenthood should be, uh, funded,”_ thus prompting legislators to defund it? I’m sure that COULD happen, but people who throw their lives away aren’t usually doing it while playing three dimensional chess. Generally they are trying to make a point and I’d imagine the last thing your average pro-life terrorist would want is to die protesting Planned Parenthood cuts. One reason it doesn’t happen is because victims of terrorism tend to react with kneejerk appeasement. People do this because it usually works. It won’t work in this case, but it can work in other cases. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/103 "2015-11-30T03:16:23Z")
Yeah, but saying “Since 9/11” is just a bit of a cherry pick. Plus again, there is no right-wing terrorist conspiracy, just a lot of right wing nuts who are good with guns and explosives. There are actually Islamic terrorist organizations trying to kill us, and the only reason they haven’t racked up an impressive body count since 9/11 is our active campaign against them. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/104 "2015-11-30T03:32:06Z")
I was going to wait until I’d tracked down the court documents to verify the cite at its origin, but I wish to repond to what **Johnny L.A.** has just posted. > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [Not according to Malvo](http://criminalminds.wikia.com/wiki/John_Allen_Muhammad_and_Lee_Boyd_Malvo) > > And even if you _do_ include Malvo (which you shouldn’t, because he was neither a right-wing extremist nor, by his testimony, an islamic terrorist)… There is nothing about what you just cited that contradicts my statement. It doesn’t stop being Islamic terrorism just because you want to recruit black orphans. And from Wikipedia, there was quite a bit of evidence that the attackers were motivated by Islam: [ > [@](#): > > A series of trial exhibits suggested Malvo and Muhammad were motivated by an affinity for Islamist Jihad.[38] > > ``` > Exhibit 65-006: A self-portrait of Malvo in the cross hairs of a gun scope shouting, "ALLAH AKBAR!" The word "SALAAM" scrawled vertically. A lyric from Bob Marley's Natural Mystic "Many more will have to suffer. Many more will have to die. Don't ask me why." > Exhibit 65-016: A portrait of Saddam Hussein with the words "INSHALLAH" and "The Protector," surrounded by rockets labeled "chem" and "nuk". > Exhibit 65-043: Father and son portrait of Malvo and Muhammad. "We will kill them all. Jihad." > Exhibit 65-056: A self-portrait of Malvo as sniper, lying in wait, with his rifle. "JIHAD" written in bold letters. > Exhibit 65-067: A suicide bomber labeled "Hamas" walking into a McDonald's restaurant. Another drawing of the Twin Towers burning captioned: "85 percent chance Zionists did this." More scrawls: "ALLAH AKBAR," "JIHAD," and "Islam will explode." > Exhibit 65-103: A lion accompanies chapter and verse from the Quran (Sura 2:190): "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you and slay them wherever ye catch them." > Exhibit 65-109: Portrait of Osama bin Laden, captioned "Servant of Allah." > Exhibit 65-117: The White House drawn in crosshairs, surrounded by missiles, with a warning: "Sep. 11 we will ensure will look like a picnic to you" and "you will bleed to death little by little." > Exhibit 65-101: Malvo's thought for the day: "Islam the only true guidance, the way of peace." > > ``` > > At the 2006 trial of Muhammad, Malvo testified that the aim of the killing spree was to kidnap children for the purpose of extorting money from the government and to “set up a camp to train children how to terrorize cities”,[39] with the ultimate goal being to “shut things down” across the United States. ]([D.C. sniper attacks - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltway_sniper_attacks#Motive)) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/105 "2015-11-30T03:35:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yeah, but saying “Since 9/11” is just a bit of a cherry pick. It’s been a decade and a half. So no, not much of a ‘cherry pick’. Why not go back to the Crusades? > [@adaher](#): > > Plus again, there is no right-wing terrorist conspiracy, just a lot of right wing nuts who are good with guns and explosives. [Right-wing gun nuts who get together to conspire and/or carry out terror attacks](https://www.splcenter.org/20100126/terror-right). ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/106 "2015-11-30T03:40:03Z")
The SPLC steps on their own argument by citing lone wolves and “organizations” that did one thing and have never been heard from again. Other examples include “organizations” where arresting the “leader” ended it right then and there. This is not even Weathermen level, much less al Qaeda. And unlike the Weathermen, these guys aren’t allowed back in polite society. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/107 "2015-11-30T03:44:11Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > There is nothing about what you just cited that contradicts my statement. It doesn’t stop being Islamic terrorism just because you want to recruit black orphans. And from Wikipedia, there was quite a bit of evidence that the attackers were motivated by Islam: ‘Suggests’. His testimony doesn’t appear to have mentioned it, according to the link I posted. Also, your link says: > [@](#): > > Because his rants and drawings featured not only such figures as Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein, but also characters from the film series _The Matrix_, these musings were dismissed as immaterial. Some investigators reportedly said they had all but eliminated terrorist ties or political ideologies as a motive. Maybe he was motivated by Agent Smith. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/108 "2015-11-30T03:47:27Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Sure, it’s terrorism. Terrorism against people who have made a career out of the premeditated killing of unborn children. Call your Congressman to change the law, and while you’re at it ask them why they abide the rest of our State sanctioned killing of innocent civilians everyday. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/109 "2015-11-30T03:49:22Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > It’s been a decade and a half. So no, not much of a ‘cherry pick’. Why not go back to the Crusades? You are trying to pretend that right-wing terrorism is the real threat because they have killed 51 people since September 12, 2001, a date specifically chosen to ignore the fact that Islamic terrorism has killed _over 3,000 people_ since September 10, 2001. This is not a coincidence, it is a deliberate attempt to fraudulently present right-wing terrorism as the bigger threat. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/110 "2015-11-30T03:51:04Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Not these morons again. One, they have omitted the deadliest attack since 9/11: the Beltway Snipers, who killed 17 people as part of a plan to fund training Islamic terrorists. Two, there are literally ten times more Republicans than Muslims in the country. That they are responsible for an equal number of deaths despite one outnumbering the other 10:1 should tell you who the real problem is. “Republican terrorists have killed as many Americans since 9/11 as Islamic jihadists.” That’s the message you want to put out? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/111 "2015-11-30T03:55:42Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > You are trying to pretend that right-wing terrorism is the real threat because they have killed 51 people since September 12, 2001, a date specifically chosen to ignore the fact that Islamic terrorism has killed _over 3,000 people_ since September 10, 2001. This is not a coincidence, it is a deliberate attempt to fraudulently present right-wing terrorism as the bigger threat. Thats handy, picking the exact day your memory begins. Makes it easier to blame an entire faith and culture for the consequences of a category of horrible acts. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/112 "2015-11-30T04:02:38Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > It’s been a decade and a half. So no, not much of a ‘cherry pick’. Why not go back to the Crusades? Because the USA did not exist during the time of The Crusades. Did you have another question? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/113 "2015-11-30T04:34:42Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Thats handy, picking the exact day your memory begins. By all means, go back further - as long as you stop this side of Pearl Harbor, you’ll still find that Islamic terrorism is in the lead. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/114 "2015-11-30T05:28:34Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > By all means, go back further - as long as you stop this side of Pearl Harbor, you’ll still find that Islamic terrorism is in the lead. Hmm… Perpetrator of the greatest total of noncombatants killed during the last 70 years. Are you sure you want to go with even the total of all nations dominated by Islam for that lead? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/115 "2015-11-30T06:49:27Z")
Nah… Killing civilians in war is not quite the same as terrorism. As odious as it is, it’s legal. Even the Nazi War-Crimes trials didn’t cover things like the London Blitz. You’re right that it’s nothing to be proud of, and undermines the U.S. position of moral arbiter, but it really isn’t a valid comparison. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/116 "2015-11-30T10:36:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Because the USA did not exist during the time of The Crusades. > > Did you have another question? I do: What is your point? Terrorism and religious fanaticism predate the United States, by quite a lot, I believe (I admit I don’t have any cites to hand.) ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/117 "2015-11-30T11:29:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The SPLC steps on their own argument by citing lone wolves and “organizations” that did one thing and have never been heard from again. What argument is that? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/118 "2015-11-30T11:34:33Z")
Their inference that there is a right-wing conspiracy to commit terrorist acts. The only actual organizations that have committed terrorism in the US that aren’t foreign-based have been of the left: the Weathermen, the Symbionese Liberation Army. The FBI’s infiltration efforts helped put an end to left-wing terrorism(tactics which many liberals decried, BTW), and would also work against right-wing terrorism if there was any organized right-wing terror group to infiltrate. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/119 "2015-11-30T12:25:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Their inference that there is a right-wing conspiracy to commit terrorist acts. The only actual organizations that have committed terrorism in the US that aren’t foreign-based have been of the left: the Weathermen, the Symbionese Liberation Army. KKKould you think about that a little more? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/120 "2015-11-30T12:28:26Z")
They’ve been defanged as well, although it’s hard to call an organization terroristic when it has the full backing of high government officials. More like government-sponsored terror, which is a different category. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886.md?page=7)