# Let's stop the terrorism double standard **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 28, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886 "2015-11-28T23:42:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/121 "2015-11-30T12:28:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Their inference that there is a right-wing conspiracy to commit terrorist acts. … I don’t see that stated or implied on the page linked to; I’m not aware SPLC has maintained there is some overarching right-wing conspiracy. Not everyone assumes there is some large, coordinated conspiracy behind every bad event; the SPLC acts against acts of terrorism and racism and xenophobia, among other things, committed by individuals and small hate groups as well. I don’t see the evidence from which you inferred they believe in “ **a** [single] right-wing conspiracy”. > [@adaher](#): > > …The only actual organizations that have committed terrorism in the US that aren’t foreign-based have been of the left: the Weathermen, the Symbionese Liberation Army… I’m not going to challenge your idiosyncratic definition of organization, other than to share [these](https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map)[pages](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2015/active-hate-groups-united-states-2014), but I will add that if you read the first page linked, you will see that the FBI has investigated, if not actively infiltrated, some of the listed groups. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/122 "2015-11-30T13:49:55Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Not these morons again. One, they have omitted the deadliest attack since 9/11: the Beltway Snipers, who killed 17 people as part of a plan to fund training Islamic terrorists. WTF are you talking about, funding Islamic terrorists? I have never heard that mentioned by the snipers. Having lived through it, I followed the case closely. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/123 "2015-11-30T14:57:39Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > Attacks like the one yesterday at Planned Parenthood are terrorism just the same as any Islamist attack. Yep, and it’s long overdue to shove a right-wing talking point right down their throats (“Why are you refusing to call religious fundamentalist terrorism by its right name?”) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/124 "2015-11-30T14:59:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The only actual organizations that have committed terrorism in the US that aren’t foreign-based It is a little-known fact that sugar and porridge combine to anesthetize the organizational centers of the brain, thus disqualifying anyone who eats that meal from being counted as part of an “organization”. > [@adaher](#): > > More like government-sponsored terror, which is a different category. Hokay, we’ve got the “sugared porridge” category, the “cinnamon porridge” category… maybe you should just give us the full list up front. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/125 "2015-11-30T15:06:48Z")
> [@j666](#): > > I do: What is your point? Terrorism and religious fanaticism predate the United States, by quite a lot, I believe (I admit I don’t have any cites to hand.) The post that started that particular side discussion was: > [@Johnny L. A.](#): > > Since the 9/11 attacks, right wing extremists have killed more than twice as many people in the U.S. than Muslim extremists. Emphasis added. Any other questions? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/126 "2015-11-30T15:22:32Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > You are trying to pretend that right-wing terrorism is the real threat because they have killed 51 people since September 12, 2001, a date specifically chosen to ignore the fact that Islamic terrorism has killed _over 3,000 people_ since September 10, 2001. This is not a coincidence, it is a deliberate attempt to fraudulently present right-wing terrorism as the bigger threat. Not to mention that, if the Underpants Bomber had succeeded, he would have killed about 250 people all on his own. It was pure dumb luck that he failed. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/127 "2015-11-30T15:27:16Z")
That’s got to be the worst name for a terrorist ever. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/128 "2015-11-30T15:40:19Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > That’s got to be the worst name for a terrorist ever. But it got him remembered better than the shoe bomber. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/129 "2015-11-30T15:50:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They’ve been defanged as well, although it’s hard to call an organization terroristic when it has the full backing of high government officials. More like government-sponsored terror, which is a different category. Oh, please. Just say you were wrong about all organized terrorism being left-wing. Plenty of Islamic terrorist groups not only have the backing of government officials but are openly and officially sponsored by a state. Doesn’t make them a “different category.” ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/130 "2015-11-30T15:51:49Z")
More terrorism in the U.S. in the wake of the Paris attacks! > **[Passenger rants about Islamic State before shooting Muslim taxi driver in back](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/11/30/pa-passenger-rants-about-isis-before-shooting-muslim-taxi-driver-in-back/?postshare=4571448897209739&hpid=hp_no-name_hp-in-the-news%3Apage%2Fin-the-news)** > > "Are you from Pakistan?" the shooter asked. "I am proud to say I am American, but I didn't have the chance to say that to him," the driver said. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/131 "2015-11-30T18:48:02Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > KKKould you think about that a little more? If you think of the Klan as some kind of right-wing organization, you’re mistaken. The Klan of today arguably is, but the Klan of today consists of toothless rednecks meeting in trailer parks. The Klan of the 1870s does not map onto the political categories of the modern era, and the Klan at its peak in the 1910s and 20s was, if anything, more in alignment with the progressives of era than the conservatives, and reached its zenith at the 1924 Democratic National Convention. see, e.g. [this](https://reason.com/archives/2005/12/02/hooded-progressivism) and[this.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1924_Democratic_National_Convention) ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/132 "2015-11-30T19:23:41Z")
> [@furt](#): > > If you think of the Klan as some kind of right-wing organization, you’re mistaken. You can argue that. But hey, don’t even try to make it LEFT-wing. > [@](#): > > The Klan of today arguably is, but the Klan of today consists of toothless rednecks meeting in trailer parks. So? That means they have no political views? > [@](#): > > The Klan of the 1870s does not map onto the political categories of the modern era, and the Klan at its peak in the 1910s and 20s was, if anything, more in alignment with the progressives of era than the conservatives, How exactly did they do that? Keep in mind that “progressive” meant something very different back then, not that it makes any difference. > [@](#): > > and reached its zenith at the 1924 Democratic National Convention. Are you actually trying to say that 1924 Democract = left-wing? ---
**Author:** ![fire\_hazard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6de8d8/32.png) [@fire\_hazard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fire_hazard)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/133 "2015-11-30T19:34:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > [snip] One reason it doesn’t happen is because victims of terrorism tend to react with kneejerk appeasement. [snip] I find this a little bit hard to believe. Invading Afghanistan was not kneejerk appeasement so far as I can see. The Provisional IRA spent rather a long time blowing up civilian targets in the UK and the end result wasn’t appeasment either. A link to some academic opinion [Why Groups Use Terrorism: A Reassessment of the Conventional Wisdom - Political Violence at a Glance](http://politicalviolenceataglance.org/2015/04/22/why-groups-use-terrorism-a-reassessment-of-the-conventional-wisdom/) “Over the past decade, political scientists have learned a great deal about terrorism. For a while, the conventional wisdom held that groups commit terrorism because it’s strategically effective. For this reason, the dominant paradigm is sometimes referred to as the Strategic Model of Terrorism. Its logic seemed self-evident: To avert additional pain to their civilians, governments were presumed to adopt a more dovish stance by granting the perpetrators their political demands.” “There was only one problem with this emerging scholarly orthodoxy. It wasn’t supported by the evidence. Increasingly, empirical evidence has revealed that terrorism is a remarkably ineffective tactic for groups to induce government concessions.” Perhaps you have some evidence or even a cite? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/134 "2015-11-30T20:30:48Z")
Christian terrorism. That’s what I’ve been referring to these PP attacks. If Christians don’t like it, maybe the moderate ones should speak up and denounce it 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/135 "2015-11-30T20:32:32Z")
> [@j666](#): > > The OP did not state or imply whether the clinic shooting or Islamic terrorism is a greater threat, just that the clinic shooting was an act of terrorism as much as an Islamic attack. I don’t see a logical argument contradicting that. I have not contested the premise that the clinic shooting was an act of terrorism. However, IMO the reason for bringing it up is the suggestion of parity I mention, even if OP does not come right out and say so. > [@j666](#): > > I stated that I am at more risk for an attack at a U.S. medical facility by a radical Christian terrorist than an Islamic terrorist, and I stand by that. Red herring. Per Wiki in the case of abortion clinics the risk is minuscule: 11 killed in the US since 1993 (none for 6 years prior to 11/27/15) and 13 injured since 1977. Surely the risk vanishes to nearly zero for other medical facilities. > [@j666](#): > > I don’t know that more people have died from Islamic than Christian violence, but will read any reputable source that provides the historical body count for each with great interest. I think is is safe to say terrorist that Islam is the surpassing religious threat to the international world order today. OP and almost all other threads on this board limit the case to recent past, although an extensive historical discussion would be interesting. Briefly, though, without recourse even to Wiki: international Muslim violence began immediately after Mohammed’s death in about 630ME. Its first wave consisted of about 80 years of violent conquest aimed at all its neighbors north, south, east and west. What are now the entire ME (originally less Turkey), central Asia approximately to the present Indian and Russian borders, and all North Africa were completely taken over by Muslim rulers, and gradually but quickly islamicized. In Europe Islamic violence reached as far as a conquest of almost all the Iberian peninsula, and an invasion of France. I don’t think there is any doubt that an even more successful world-wide repetition of this jihad is alive in the dreams of modern Islamic terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/136 "2015-11-30T20:37:40Z")
> [@Nelson\_Pike](#): > > Red herring. Per Wiki in the case of abortion clinics the risk is minuscule: 11 killed in the US since 1993 (none for 6 years prior to 11/27/15) and 13 injured since 1977. Surely the risk vanishes to nearly zero for other medical facilities. [More a lack of trying or lack of competence.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence#United_States) > [@](#): > > According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, 13 wounded, 100 butyric acid attacks, 373 physical invasions, 41 bombings, 655 anthrax threats, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers. Between 1997 and 1990 77 death threats were made with 250 made between 1991 to 1999 . Attempted murders in the U.S. included: IN 1985 45% of clinics reported bomb threats, decreasing to 15% in 2000. One fifth of clinics in 2000 experienced some form of extreme activity. ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/137 "2015-11-30T20:55:32Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Since the 9/11 attacks, [right wing extremists have killed more than twice as many people in the U.S. than Muslim extremists](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/us/tally-of-attacks-in-us-challenges-perceptions-of-top-terror-threat.html?_r=0). This deceitful post does not directly inform us that there have been only 48 right-wing murders since 2001- less than 4 a year. Ingrown toenails have probably killed more. If that is all there is to the RW threat then it would be fair to call the threat trivial (and thankfully the so far almost entirely loyal US Muslims are even less of a threat). Now, in the interests of transparency, I worry greatly over the possible implications of incidents such as the Cliven Bundy ranch stand-off, with its masses of RW stupid people armed to the teeth and loaded for bear. We have enough problems without them going haywire, so let us hope we are keeping as close tabs on that type as we need to. But there are more Muslims who need watching in the world today, and since they are not going to disappear eternal vigilance is our fate. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/138 "2015-11-30T21:04:05Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Are you actually trying to say that 1924 Democract = left-wing? You’re right, you’ve got me. The party that elected Woodrow Wilson and stood against Calvin Coolidge had nothing to do with progressivism and was in fact deeply conservative. Clearly, I was unprepared for your devastating critique. ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/139 "2015-11-30T21:06:47Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [More a lack of trying or lack of competence.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence#United_States) That is where I got some of my data from. Terrorism is first and foremost homicidal. The severity of the threat is IMO defined by the number of people it kills and tries to kill. I do not want anyone to die or be hurt, and all threats to kill should be investigated to the fullest capacity of the law. But only one person has been killed every three years since 1977 so that kind of terror threat is among the least severe. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886/140 "2015-11-30T21:22:06Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > More terrorism in the U.S. in the wake of the Paris attacks! > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/11/30/pa-passenger-rants-about-isis-before-shooting-muslim-taxi-driver-in-back/?postshare=4571448897209739&hpid=hp\_no-name\_hp-in-the-news%3Apage%2Fin-the-news](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/11/30/pa-passenger-rants-about-isis-before-shooting-muslim-taxi-driver-in-back/?postshare=4571448897209739&hpid=hp_no-name_hp-in-the-news%3Apage%2Fin-the-news) And meanwhile we are patiently waiting for Islamic civil rights groups like CAIR to stand up for [this](http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/crime/man-arrested-at-high-school-was-former-teaching-assistant/article_e4c76c14-7721-541b-80cf-6619ca5af185.html) Muslim victim of violence: > [@](#): > > Police said Omar pulled a 14-year-old family member by the hair Tuesday at Hickman High School because she was not wearing a hijab — a traditional headscarf worn by some Muslim women. Omar allegedly slapped the girl’s face before pulling her into his car. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-stop-the-terrorism-double-standard/738886.md?page=8)