# Let's talk about banning police dogs **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 22, 2023, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487 "2023-03-22T12:19:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/61 "2023-03-22T20:04:31Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Agreed. Dogs shouldn’t be used as weapons. I don’t know if that was a reply to me, but if it was, it wasn’t pertinent to what I said. There’s also a lot of ambiguity about what “using dogs as weapons” means – there are certainly interpretations where I would completely agree with that, and it’s entirely possible that police have abused dogs in this way and endangered civilians. But, as with guns and police shootings, the solution is to correct the police behaviour, not ban the tools. But by way of further clarification of moral vs legal rights, the strengthened legislation to protect law enforcement animals comes from a place that philosophically and culturally has always placed a high premium on moral considerations. Here’s a bit more background on why the new legislation was called “Quanto’s Law”: > On July 24, 2015, the Justice for Animals in Service Act, or Quanto’s Law, was enacted as part of the federal animal cruelty provisions in the Criminal Code of Canada, making the harming or killing of police, military or other service animals a special offence. > > The law’s more common name is a memorial to Police Dog Quanto, a German shepherd with four years of service and more than 100 arrests to his name, who was killed on the job in Edmonton on October 7, 2013. > > Paul Vukmanich, who killed Police Dog Quanto, was sentenced to 26 months in prison after pleading guilty to six charges in court, including one charge for killing the dog. But the short prison sentence was controversial and sparked a nationwide conversation about the need for specific laws to address service animal cruelty. > [https://humanecanada.ca/our-work/focus-areas/animals-and-the-law/federal-legislation/quantos-law/](https://humanecanada.ca/our-work/focus-areas/animals-and-the-law/federal-legislation/quantos-law/) > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > You misunderstand. I’m saying that is how things _should_ be, on top of a blanket national ban on using attack dogs. (They aren’t “policing”, they are attacking, maiming, and sometimes killing.) They’re policing. And, apparently, sometimes bad police behaviour misuses and abuses the dogs. As I said above, that’s on bad police behaviour and should be addressed as such, it’s not on the dogs who dutifully do what they were trained to do and, in the moment, ordered to do, and usually provide very valuable service. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/62 "2023-03-22T20:09:14Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > But, as with guns and police shootings, the solution is to correct the police behaviour, not ban the tools. The solution is to take the weapon away until the police are properly trained, and such training is enforced. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/63 "2023-03-22T20:18:27Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > But, as with guns and police shootings, the solution is to correct the police behaviour, not ban the tools. This is reminiscent of Republican arguments against gun control. Sometimes the best approach to correcting behaviour is to change the tools available. The old saying that to a man with a hammer everything looks like a nail is absolutely true. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/64 "2023-03-22T20:30:44Z")
sss > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > > [@Grrr](#): > > > > If we’re talking about banning K9s from searching cars on traffic stops because the officer couldn’t get consent from the driver to search their car; I’m all for it. > > Agree. > > Using a police dog to “sniff” for drugs around a car is a convenient way to bypass the driver’s 4th Amendment rights. Happened to me. I was offered the choice of consenting to the search or wait, who knows how long, for the K9 unit. Coercion in lieu of probable cause. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/65 "2023-03-22T20:32:08Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > But, as with guns and police shootings, the solution is to correct the police behaviour, not ban the tools. > > This is reminiscent of Republican arguments against gun control. Not at all. Police training is a very specific controlled methodology directed towards a very specific pre-selected group meant to improve their job performance. Which is not at all the same as trying to modify the general behaviours of the entire general population, or the totally impossible task of trying to preemptively weed out potentially dangerous gun owners. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/66 "2023-03-22T20:38:05Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > . I’d much prefer having a dog sniff my suitcase to having people open it up and grope through it. I first saw the Ag beagles at the airport on the Big Island. They were so cute! And as a former beagle mom, I can attest to the power of their noses. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I don’t think their socialization with everyone else has been destroyed, any more than it has been with any other working dog who’s expected to behave differently when on duty than when off I had a friend who was blind, and she had a number of guide dogs over the years. The dog was working when it was wearing its harness. When Jan took the harness off the dog, it was free to be a normal dog and romp around with us. One of her dogs used to sneak down the hall to my office, because the coffee pot was there, and I often brought in cookies. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/67 "2023-03-22T20:40:23Z")
A dog bite isn’t as bad as a gun shot? That dog isn’t going to bite you on the arm or leg once then back off. That dog is going to rip into you until it is somehow pulled off by the police…if they are so inclined. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/68 "2023-03-22T20:44:51Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Police training is a very specific controlled methodology directed towards a very specific pre-selected group meant to improve their job performance. When they show interest and progress in such training they can have their toys back. > [@RickJay](#): > > amazing honkers Band name! ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/69 "2023-03-22T22:06:49Z")
I have heard cops say that crooks are often more afraid of K-9s than humans. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/70 "2023-03-22T22:15:36Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > cops say that crooks are often more afraid of K-9s than humans. If by crooks you mean most people, than yeah. I can read a person’s intent far better than I can an animal’s. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/71 "2023-03-22T22:44:14Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > I have heard cops say that crooks are often more afraid of K-9s than humans. Many people who aren’t crooks would agree. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/72 "2023-03-22T22:57:49Z")
And the point is, people being afraid of cops (no matter their species) shouldn’t be regarded as a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/73 "2023-03-23T02:44:29Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > I can read a person’s intent far better than I can an animal’s. I’m weird. I find non-humans much easier to read; at least, if they’re members of species that I’m familiar with. They lie less often, and in less complicated fashions. I wouldn’t be afraid of a police dog unless I were afraid of the accompanying human officer. Which, of course, I might be. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/74 "2023-03-23T02:58:06Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#): > > > The Los Angeles Police Department’s canine unit was launched in 1980. By the end of the decade it was inflicting hundreds of bites a year, … Critics said the LAPD was using dogs with abandon in poor and nonwhite neighborhoods, dispatching them more frequently in those areas and injuring far more Black and Latino people than white people. On the irony. LAPD (& CHP) regularly engage in car chases. Many jurisdictions don’t allow them at all, or require a supervisor to monitor & the Sgt / Lt can shut down if they deem it too dangerous. Wouldn’t it make more sense to keep the dogs but treat it like other jurisdictions treat chases - require approval from a supervisor before they can be deployed? > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > sss > > > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > > > > [@Grrr](#): > > > > > > If we’re talking about banning K9s from searching cars on traffic stops because the officer couldn’t get consent from the driver to search their car; I’m all for it. > > > > Agree. > > > > Using a police dog to “sniff” for drugs around a car is a convenient way to bypass the driver’s 4th Amendment rights. > > Happened to me. I was offered the choice of consenting to the search or wait, who knows how long, for the K9 unit. > Coercion in lieu of probable cause. AIUI, indefinite detention at a traffic stop isn’t legal. Assuming you properly identify yourself, they have reasonable time to write you a ticket/warning. If, after that time, they then make you wait 15 mins or ½ hour solely to get a dog there to sniff around your car, even if you had a trunkful of drugs it would get thrown out as an illegal search due to the unnecessary delay. Maybe one of our Doper lawyers can confirm. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/75 "2023-03-23T03:06:35Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > AIUI, indefinite detention at a traffic stop isn’t legal. Assuming you properly identify yourself, they have reasonable time to write you a ticket/warning. If, after that time, they then make you wait 15 mins or ½ hour solely to get a dog there to sniff around your car, even if you had a trunkful of drugs it would get thrown out as an illegal search due to the unnecessary delay. Maybe one of our Doper lawyers can confirm. I know that’s the law and the way it’s supposed to work but it doesn’t. Cops don’t give one flying fuck about that law because they know, if they violate it, nothing will happen to them. Meanwhile, the civilian has to go through the hassle of being arrested and thrown in jail for at least a few hours until they can make bail. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/76 "2023-03-23T03:12:01Z")
“[I remember the police bringing dogs into our school to sniff away my rights](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPXba5s_YMU).” Dave Dictor, MDC singer ---
**Author:** ![TRC4941](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trc4941/32/6792_2.png) [@TRC4941](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TRC4941)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/77 "2023-03-23T13:51:09Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > > [@minor7flat5](#): > > > > > Black and Latino people accounted for about two-thirds of the use-of-force cases involving canines. > > I wonder how that correlates to the percentage of Black and Latino people who commit crimes vs. the percentage of others who commit crimes. Agree ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/78 "2023-03-23T16:46:53Z")
> [@TRC4941](#): > > > [@Skywatcher](#): > > > > I wonder how that correlates to the percentage of Black and Latino people who commit crimes vs. the percentage of others who commit crimes. > > Agree See my post # 37. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/79 "2023-03-23T16:56:13Z")
I have no problem with the usage of dogs as tail-wagging, furry sensors. But I agree that they should not be used as weapons. And treating them as badged officers is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487/80 "2023-03-23T20:04:23Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > And treating them as badged officers is ridiculous. Most definitely, and to state that a dog’s life has more value than a human’s life is asinine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-banning-police-dogs/981487.md?page=5)