Let's talk about chiropractors

Factual Questions
61

OK, yeah, getting a handjob might release some endorphins and make you feel better temporarily, but it isn’t going get the knots out of your muscles that are causing the problem.

I recommend looking for a good, nationally certified and licensed massage therapist instead.

Now, in my experience, (chronic back pain, at times it has been close to crippling), M.D.'s simply are useless. Go to a doctor, who barely even looks at my back, prescribes muscle relaxants and pain meds that do nothing to relax the muscles or relieve the pain. Go to another doctor, who barely looks at my back, prescribes different muscle relaxants and pain meds which do nothing to relieve the pain. Go back, get sent for X-rays, hobble into the hospital X-ray lab, crawl onto the table, get pictures taken, hobble home, get a call a few days later saying that the X-rays show no abnormalities, go back to the doctor (or to a different one), who barely looks at my back, prescribes muscle relaxants and pain meds that do nothing to help the pain…

Repeat for months on end

Finally get a referral from a friend to a good chiropractor, who actually (gasp) examines my back, puts me on the rack and cracks and crunches my spine, I get a good deal of pain relief, and after a couple more adjustments I’m virtually pain free for weeks or even months.

See, there’s no “scientific evidence” that chiropractic, among other alternative therapies, works. But there are lot of people like me wandering around out here in the real world who have gotten real benefits after the “scientifically verifiable” medical treatments have failed repeatedly.

62

As far I know the JAMA has only approved chiro for back issues. No mention of asthama or anything else.

63

Actually, there is. In a classic study, they found that Chirpractic worked at relieving mild chronic back pain. Now- “real MD’s” and Insurance companies will refer you to some of the less “fringie” Dc’s out there.

Note that my DC (I saw one for a while after being referred there by my “real MD”, and my Insurance paid for a good chunk of it) did note that one leg was longer than the other, but said it was common, and it didn’t make any significant problem for me.

I will admit that the DC didn’t see any “end” to treatments- BUT- she DID suggest dropping my treatments back to once a month after the referred to problem was pretty well gone. To start- I got a 20 minute massage, followed by an “adjustment” every week for a couple months, and yes, it did fix my back problem. If my insurance would have paid for it, I would have happily got the “once a month maintence program”, since at the very least it was very good for stress relief.

There is no doubt in my mind that a good ‘adjustment"- no matter the truth about "subluxations” or whatever- does relieve stress, that “crack” immediately for me made my back feel better, and stress went away. I’ll point out that “Rolfing” and a few other "hard’ massage techniques preach rather similar stuff.

Now- I will admit that some DC’s are very very “fringie” and will say that Chiropractic can & will cure everything. :rolleyes: I won’t patronize them. But if they say it will help with stress and mild back pain, then they aren’t quacks at all.

64

I meant to say “massage therapist” instead of “masseuse” which I guess nowadays always has the prostitute connotation. Although a massage therapist who throws in a handjob for free would be a pretty good deal.

65

I don’t doubt that they tell a lot of people that, but what about the PT and orthopedist who told me the same thing? Are they in on the conspiracy, too? The orthopedist is a genuine MD. It made a fair amount of sense, as I was complaining about hip pain, always on the same side, as much as about back pain. It might be a legitimate cause in some cases, if over-diagnosed for a lot of people.

66

So, from this thread I’ve gathered that:

  • Chiropractors aren’t always worse than MDs and/or massage therapists.

  • Chiropractors are fine as long as they throw in something vaguely scientific, like x rays or an estimation that one of your legs is shorter than the other.

  • Chiropractors are fine as long as they don’t throw in that chiropractic hooey about all diseases being caused by spinal problems… unless they have a seemingly valid explanation, like opening up the rib cage to cure asthma.

  • Chiropractors are fine as long as you quit going when you feel better, rather than when they tell you to stop coming and/or your wallet is completely empty.

  • Things sometimes get better during or after a visitor to a chiropractor, and we have testimonials to prove it.

Folks, if your back hurts bad enough to go to someone who calls themself a doctor, go to an actual doctor, who can diagnose what’s actually wrong. If it doesn’t hurt that bad (or the doctor can’t find anything), go to a certified massage therapist who uses a knowledge of anatomy to make you feel better.

Don’t go to someone who is really using a knowledge of anatomy to make you feel better but calls it chiropractic (the “good” chiropractors), and definitely don’t go to someone who is trying to open up blocked energy channels to cure everything that ails you (the “cooky” chiropractors). Yes, chiropractic might sometimes work, but I’ve seen no evidence that it ever works BETTER than the real-world treatments, so the only advantage you get over a massage therapist is a bunch of hooey and a word vaguely related to the latin word for spine.

67

Except that- Massage at a Chiropractors, with an “Adjustment”- is often covered by Insurance. Massage alone- usually isn’t. I will cheerfully admit that I think that massage AND an adjustment works far better than an adjustment alone.

68

A good chiropractor will always get x-rays first.

69

Like it or not, spinal manipulation is “officially” recognized as an effective treatment for some types of spinal issues.

70

Well, leeches are being used in some legit medical uses again too, but that doesn’t mean that getting cupped and bled to balance ‘the humours’ has some legitimacy.

I imagine that anything as complex as the beliefs and practices of chiropractic stuff is bound to stumble into something useful every once in a while.

71

Leeches are, indeed, being used in some situations where bloodletting is therapeutic. This is a legitimate medical therapy, and I’ll let one of the medical doctors on board explain more.

72

This thread makes me weep for the days of GQ past. Anecdotal “it helped me” stories on one side, anecdotal “it couldn’t have helped you, it’s just a placebo effect” claimes on the other. Both sides too busy being “right” that they can’t be bothered to put any research into it.

You’ve got people claiming that what the “quack chiros” do “can’t work” because the reason why they say it works doesn’t make logical sense. That is unscientific horseshit. Ancient people could have felt that headaches are caused by demons, that eating willow bark (contains aspirin) made headaches go away by summoning the spirit of the forest to drive the demons from your skull. The “non-logical” explanation of why it works doesn’t mean that the treatment, itself, doesn’t work.

If you want to say that it can or can’t work, you have to bring up scientific studies that show what effect the treatment has on the particular problem that you say that the treatment can’t or can work on. You have to compare and contrast people who went to a chiro, people who went to a physical therapist, people who went to a “real” doctor, and people who just sat on their ass to see who really got “helped” by which treatment.

71 replies, and not a single link to a single study. This is NOT what I expect from this forum.

-lv

73

I mentioned one such study. No one has asked for cites.

here’s a few:

http://www.myodynamics.com/articles/chiro.html

http://www.silcom.com/~dwsmith/manga.html

http://www.ifchiro.com/content/research.html

74

DrDeth, I did miss your mention of the study. But you have to admit that dropping four cites that back your opinion makes a stronger argument than saying “a classic study does support”. So it was only 60-some posts before somebody posted something other than their own opinion in a GQ thread.

75

**Absolutely. ** :smiley: But I usually wait for a “cite?” request before dropping one in, if that is not the question in play. Note that I am pretty "middle of the road’ on the Chiropractic issue, however. I don’t feel it is any better than massage therapy, myself.

76

Well, I gave in and went to the chiropractor… quite an interesting experience…

first, they made me watch a video on chiropractics and how it helps… video, VCR, and TV far outdated… mid 80’s style. This was in a regular business office. Then the Dr. comes in, sits down and talks to me about what the problems are and where they are coming from. I take off my shirt and he makes me do some bending and twisting exercizes while watching how my body structure is. I told him tight back, pains, etc. So next stop, xray room. He told me to come back in an hour and a half (Weird policy)

When I came back I went back to the office and he showed me the x-rays. Told me my neck was about two and a half inches more forward than it should be and I don’t have a proper arch in my neck that was due to most likely high school football or college rugby. He also said my lower back was compensating for my non correctly arched neck by setting itself a different way.

So, then to the room with the beds, i lay down, he pops my back and neck in about three or four places. Then to the receptionist where I find out that for the first 3-4 weeks I have to go back 3-4 times per week! yes, you read that correctly. then I can decrease to 2-3 times per week.

I’m skeptical. I don’t exactly have time in my week to visit a doctor’s office four times per week. Any advice? Should I just say screw it and see a real MD? What could a real MD do for this? I’m skeptical, but at least from an MD I can get muscle relaxers or some pain meds.

Is this even something to worry about?

77

Were you given any pt exercises?

78

Right, he’s just going to diagnose what’s wrong your back in a 20 minute office visit, then what’s he going to do? Here’s a hint: prescribe Naproxen! (or the NSAID of whoever gave him the best sales pitch that week).

And, when the bottle runs out and the back pain is still there? He could do what he did for my knee. . .just prescribe MORE Naproxen!

“But, Doc, my knee is inflamed and sore”

“Right, Naproxen is an anti-inflammatory. It will help with that.”

“Isn’t there a reason it’s inflamed and sore?”

“Take the Naproxen for 2 weeks. I don’t think we need to schedule any more visits.”

Look. . .born skeptic here. My wife started going to a Chiropractor for recurring soreness in her back/shoulder. . .and I bit my tongue, and I’ve been on the lookout for serious quackery.

But, the lady sounds kind of cool. She “adjusts” the wife, for sure. She also talks to her. My wife works with her hands out in front of her body (she’s a jeweler) and the lady talked to her and made suggestions about her back position, neck position, bench-height, stretches to do during the work hours, etc.

She asked her what position she slept in at night, how she sat on the couch, what she does for exercise. Does anyone think a MD is getting into those issues? Does anyone think that those issues are unimportant? Does anyone think that a MD is just going to look at her for 20 minutes, say, “here’s what is wrong, and here’s the cure for it.” Gotta tell ya, brother. . .medical science just doesn’t work that way.

I’m not using this analogy to support that “chiros are not quacks”. I think when they start talking about the immune system, and curing colic in babies, the bullshit-o-meter should start rising.

I’m just saying that I think they do a good job, especially with back problems. Just because some of them are morons doesn’t discredit the entire industry. THAT’S the reason people bring up the fact that some MDs are morons. No one discredits the entire medical industry because of some bad apples.

79

What do you mean by this? Are you talking about how you hold your neck?

80

This is fairly accurate representation of my experiences.