# Let's Talk About Firefly **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 23, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060 "2010-01-23T00:47:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060/21 "2010-01-26T14:36:44Z")
> [@hobscrk777](#): > > Like all the other fans out there, I’m disappointed that there is only one season. One third of a season. Shown out of order. The rest unaired until the DVD release. Still not bitter 8 years later… ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060/22 "2010-01-26T15:49:24Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > …Although I would like to see more, I’m not sure I’m going to mourn if that never happens (which seems likely) - I’m happy enough to accept it as one of those things that exists as a small, highly-regarded run - and is all the more endearing for it (like, say, _Fawlty Towers_ or _Bagpuss_). I heartily concur. ---
**Author:** ![A.Selene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ec8ea/32.png) [@A.Selene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Selene)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060/23 "2010-01-26T18:27:55Z")
Another vote for _Farscape_. I’m a huge fan of _Firefly_ as well, and own both the series and _Serenity_. _Farscape_ is wonderful: it’s quirky and fun, with the main character Chrichton (the only human) always referencing popular culture to relate to the strange things he experiences. It can take a few episodes to start to get it, but it’s great. The second season is pure gold - they really hit their stride there. ---
**Author:** ![HeadNinja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b4bc9f/32.png) [@HeadNinja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeadNinja)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060/24 "2010-01-26T19:18:21Z")
> [@enigmatic](#): > > If you are willing to check out Anime it might be worth trying to get hold of “Cowboy Bebop”. It follows a group of bounty hunters flying around a rather contemporary looking solar system, it’s certainly to closest match for Firefly’s general vibe that I’ve seen. Bebop is excellent. I will third this recommendation. ---
**Author:** ![Methyl\_Ethyl\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Methyl\_Ethyl\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Methyl_Ethyl_Death)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060/25 "2010-01-27T02:41:34Z")
I will be happy to fourth this recommendation! ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060/26 "2010-01-27T03:10:07Z")
For movies about heists, you might check out The Italian Job. Also, Once Upon A Time In Mexico, while it lacks a heist per se, does have Johnny Depp playing a rather eccentric CIA agent trying to pull off a complicated power play involving the Mexican presidency, a drug cartel, a rogue General, a retired FBI agent, a sexy female Federale, a hired gun, and a wandering guitar player. And yes, the movie is far more complicated than I just made it sound. And it is oodles of fun with awesome action sequences and gunfights too. ---
**Author:** ![Auntbeast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Auntbeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Auntbeast)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060/27 "2010-02-03T19:45:24Z")
I just watched all of Firefly and Serenity. I have no suggestions for you, but I will be your shoulder to cry on since I am sitting here suffering. We don’t even have a leg to stand on since obviously, folks have been suffering longer than we have, but still, knowing it is over is like having a bandaid ripped off. ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060/28 "2010-02-05T11:20:31Z")
This thread makes me want to go and watch Farscape again. Vastly underated show ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060/29 "2010-02-05T16:50:26Z")
Something that made Firefly so great was that Joss knows how to film iconic scenes that just stick in your head forever, and really punctuate the show. For example, Kaylee’s strawberry. Not only was it, um, pleasing from the male perspective, but it told you a lot of things in one shot: It told you that life in space is hard, that simple things we take for granted are scarce. It told you a lot about Kaylee and her ability to find joy in the simplest of things. And it’s just one of those scenes that sticks in your head. The same is true when Book first comes across Serenity, with Kaylee spinning her umbrella. Again, that one scene says so much about the culture, about the people. The scene where Jayne is stuffed in the airlock. The exchange between Jayne and Mal, and Mal’s reason for allowing him to live. “This isn’t science fiction.” “We live on a spaceship, dear.” “So?” That scene was humorous, but it also drilled home the idea that what we see as being way out there is just business as usual for people who live it. Little scenes like that are in every episode, and they make the characters come alive and make us feel like we really know them. And ultimately, we love this show because of the people in it, and how much we relate to them and enjoy being in their company. On a different note, one of the things that struck me about Firefly when I first saw it was that it felt very much like something Robert Heinlein would have written. Like it’s the greatest adaptation of a Heinlein novel ever, had Heinlein written it. It’s got the gritty realism, the values (self-determination, rebellion against oppressive government, the celebration of people who are competent), and the kick-ass-yet-sexy-and-smart women. The writing style is very similar: “Show, don’t tell.” We’re not treated to long technobabble explanations of how everything works, but the writing is sharp enough that we kind of understand it anyway. That’s a very tough thing to pull off. Heinlein specialized in being able to do that - his stories would come alive and you’d have this strong sense of being able to visualize exactly what was going on, and yet at no point was there some long exposition on the technology, the culture, or anything else. You just learn it along the way. The Firefly writers had that gift, and it made the show snappy and witty and believable without being boring. As a huge Heinlein fan, the similarities hit me immediately. It was no surprise to learn that Tim Minear is a huge Heinlein fan himself, and has actually penned a script for Heinlein’s “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress”. The scene at the end of ‘Out of Gas’ where the salesman is trying to sell Mal on a ship but Mal spots Serenity and falls instantly in love with it, is probably the most Heinleinian moment ever filmed. In fact, it’s almost a straight cut from “The Rolling Stones”. I just love that scene. As for the series’ cancellation - of course I’m sad that we have so little of Firefly to go back and enjoy, but on the other hand, I’m sure glad it didn’t run long enough for the quality to start to suffer and the consistency of the universe to start to break down. It would have been heartbreaking to see Joss and Tim and the others move on to newer projects and leave Firefly in the hands of lesser writers who might have turned it into typical televised hack SF. So maybe the early cancellation is really a blessing. ---
**Author:** ![Auntbeast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Auntbeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Auntbeast)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060/30 "2010-02-07T01:51:52Z")
I’m trying to figure out what hooked me on the show. In all honesty, I believe it was the opening credits, the mix of sci-fi with the western theme piqued my interest. I adore the women characters and thought it was nice how there was a good mix of types, none of which were the bobbleheaded blonde bimbo types. Even choosing the actress for Saffron was inspired. I don’t think I’ve seen a woman on TV that just epitomized pure, unadulterated lust in such a way. Alan Tudyk, I realized while watching, I have actually liked in everything he has done. He doesn’t strike me as someone I would like and when I first saw him, I wasn’t thrilled, but he was so darn good. The only character I didn’t like was the doctor. He just seemed way too moony for me. I don’t know what would have happened, had the show been able to run the course, but obviously, Joss Whedon has the ability to carry a show for many years and maintain the quality. The obvious affection that the cast has for the show is apparent in interviews, beyond the usual blather. I’m not sure if it is the newly blossomed fangirl in me, but I honestly think that if given the chance, they would all come back. And Ron Glass was awesome. When I saw his name in the opening credits, for some reason, I knew he was the guy from Barney Miller. Useless trivia knocking around in my brain. I’m still in mourning. I don’t expect to stop very soon. Put this in your pipe and smoke it. Baywatch Nights got two seasons. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060/31 "2010-02-07T02:42:22Z")
Incidentally, Netflix does now have the Farscape season 1 discs, so I’m extending my membership. It started slow, but by the end of the first disc it was already growing on me, so I’ll probably watch all of them. What I find most fascinating about it so far is there doesn’t seem to be any single character who’s the leader: They just sort of all muddle through together. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060/32 "2010-02-07T03:07:12Z")
_Farscape_ is my favorite SF series, edging out _Firefly_ only because it had more seasons. Scorpius is the Best. Villain. Ever! When BSG began to lag, I briefly flirted with the idea of sending R.D. Moore the complete series boxed set of Farscape, with a note attached saying, “Watch and learn, guys; watch and learn.” ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060/33 "2010-02-07T03:58:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Incidentally, Netflix does now have the Farscape season 1 discs, so I’m extending my membership. You can also watch them instantly. ---
**Author:** ![Achren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@Achren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achren)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060/34 "2010-02-07T04:18:44Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > [Actually…](http://www.amazon.com/Farscape-Complete-Ben-Browder/dp/B002GP7ZWI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1264353802&sr=8-1) OH MY GOODNESS OH MY GOODNESS! The whole series! $60! This is so much better than having to buy it two episodes/disc at a time. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060/35 "2010-02-07T04:38:53Z")
> [@Achren](#): > > OH MY GOODNESS OH MY GOODNESS! > The whole series! $60! > > This is so much better than having to buy it two episodes/disc at a time. You’re welcome. Enjoy! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060/36 "2010-02-07T05:21:23Z")
**Sam Stone** said: > [@](#): > > Heinlein specialized in being able to do that - his stories would come alive and you’d have this strong sense of being able to visualize exactly what was going on, and yet at no point was there some long exposition on the technology, the culture, or anything else. Um, have you read Heinlein? 😉 Hey, I love his work, but there definitely is a fair share of exposition on technology and culture and everything else. ## Heck, _Starship Troopers_ is about 80% philosophical treatise and only about 20% actual adventure story.\* _The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress_ has a section talking about how to launch payloads from the Moon using rail guns. Yeah, he’s probably not in the league of, say, David Webber (Honor Harrington series), and he has far more _story_ than is typical of Arthur C. Clarke (_Rendezvous With Rama_), but a large element of his writing is talking about things or having characters think about things. \*Percentages may be slightly exaggerated for effect. But not much. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060/37 "2010-02-07T07:20:34Z")
I don’t mean that kind of exposition. I mean long passages describing a room in great detail, or paragraph on end describing physical characteristics of the protagonist. Reading his stuff, it rarely feels like someone is telling you what some future world is like, you just kind of get the picture. Heinlein certainly had lots of exposition, but it was more like asides about the nature of things or a quick story of how someone learned a lesson, or something like that. Firefly used the same style of narrative (as opposed to “Star Trek”, where you would also have handy Spock ready to give you the background lecture for the upcoming episode or Picard would helpfully ask Mr. Data to explain everything that’s going on, and why. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060/38 "2010-02-07T22:47:09Z")
> [@](#): > > You can also watch them instantly. Not on my computer, alas. For some reason the system requirements are twice as high on Mac as on PC. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060/39 "2010-02-08T23:10:23Z")
> [@Auntbeast](#): > > Put this in your pipe and smoke it. Baywatch Nights got two seasons. Oh, twist the freakin’ knife, **Auntbeast**! I too came late - far too late - to _Firefly_. But I can’t improve on the comments here, so I won’t. I will say, for the OP, if you are looking for another sci-fi series (literary series) that has some of the same qualities, you might try Richard Morgan’s Takeshi Kovacs series: _Altered Carbon_, _Broken Angels_, and _Woken Furies_. They are a lot grimmer than _Firefly_, and not nearly so much humor, but like Whedon’s opus, they inhabit a consistent and meticulously imagined cosmos. Morgan’s world is not just guns and spaceships - there are no spaceships - but also weather patterns, nursery tales, and the sociology of shopping. The main character, Takeshi Kovacs, is very much a Mal Reynolds type. Try it. Ya might like it… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-firefly/526060.md?page=1)