# Let's talk about Political Correctness on American college campuses **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 24, 2015, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251 "2015-12-24T08:49:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/81 "2015-12-28T17:24:07Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Your point is hopping all over the place. I was responding to this specific incident, in which a non-religious college issued a document with several sets of advice, including advice to employees on how to make their at-work winter holiday celebrations non-religious. You responded that any such advice is PC, and I strongly disagree with that. Now you appear to be saying that only advice about something like mistletoe is PC. So I ask again: You think it’s PC for an employer to tell its employees, “Please don’t put up nativity scenes in public areas, as it’ll send the wrong message about our official stance on religion”? There are two points, a main one and a side one: 1. Telling people that they can’t put up personal religious holiday displays is stupidly PC. The example was cited to show that it does indeed happen. 2. An additional inanity is that in the given example a distinction is made between holiday trees and mistletoe. Not only is the over-arching attempt at limiting religious displays PC, this particular example is unfathomably arbitrary. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/82 "2015-12-28T17:27:55Z")
At the risk of muddying the waters even more I have a follow-up response: > [@Deeg](#): > > 1. Telling people that they can’t put up personal religious holiday displays is stupidly PC. The example was cited to show that it does indeed happen. I wonder if this is even legal. How is limiting personal holiday displays different from denying someone a [job for wearing a hajib](http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/06/rules-clothing-label-discrimination-case-150601141831931.html)? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/83 "2015-12-28T19:15:24Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > At the risk of muddying the waters even more I have a follow-up response: > > I wonder if this is even legal. How is limiting personal holiday displays different from denying someone a [job for wearing a hajib](http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/06/rules-clothing-label-discrimination-case-150601141831931.html)? “Personal holiday displays,” in this case, really means “displays put up on employer property in a way that may suggest official endorsement of the display.” Of course that’s entirely different from a person wearing a personal religious symbol–are you not clear how it’s different? I truly find it remarkable that you think it’s PC for an employer to limit how an employee decorates business spaces. How far do you take this? If a McDonald’s employer put “Accept Christ into your heart this Christmas” on the marquee, and her manager made her take it down, would you consider that to be too PC? Where do you draw that line, and on what grounds? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/84 "2015-12-28T19:55:24Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > “Personal holiday displays,” in this case, really means “displays put up on employer property in a way that may suggest official endorsement of the display.” Of course that’s entirely different from a person wearing a personal religious symbol–are you not clear how it’s different? > > I truly find it remarkable that you think it’s PC for an employer to limit how an employee decorates business spaces. How far do you take this? If a McDonald’s employer put “Accept Christ into your heart this Christmas” on the marquee, and her manager made her take it down, would you consider that to be too PC? Where do you draw that line, and on what grounds? I notice that you’ve attempted to move this thread from what college kids can do on campuses to what employers require of their employees. Care to explain why you’re attempting to avoid the original discussion…you know, the “Let’s talk about Political Correctness on American college campuses” one? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/85 "2015-12-28T19:58:56Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Since I never said that Christianity shouldn’t suggest how Christmas is celebrated, this is a complete non sequitur. Well, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt with your “…Christianity shouldn’t reign supreme”. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were using a bit of hyperbole and not erecting and slain a Titan of a straw man in one felled swoop. So, why do you mean by that statement as it pertains to the discussion about PC idiots on college campuses? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/86 "2015-12-28T20:36:23Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > If you can’t see the proscription of something as benign as personal holiday displays (mistletoe?!?) as PC I don’t know what else to tell you. > > Regarding the OP, I largely think “kids these days” complaints are unfounded. Every generation complains about the next one and while I do believe the examples in this thread are PC run amok, over all I think they’ll be ok. I tend to agree - this sort of thing has been going on since forever (or at least, for a very long time 😃 ). It was going on when I went to university in the late '80s, for sure. New Model Army put the blame on the limp response of the oldsters to student challenges in its song “A Liberal Education”: > [@](#): > > We didn’t want a victory > We just wanted to fight > But you wouldn’t fight > You just gave in > You went and spoiled every game > You broke an everlasting chain > And nobody respects you for your weakness This was written in 1981 ... still just as relevant today. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/87 "2015-12-28T21:22:46Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I notice that you’ve attempted to move this thread from what college kids can do on campuses to what employers require of their employees. Care to explain why you’re attempting to avoid the original discussion…you know, the “Let’s talk about Political Correctness on American college campuses” one? As long as everyone agrees that the mistletoe example is more strongly about employers telling employees what to do and not about what college kids are allowed to do (if you’re confused on that point, read the original guidelines and their explanations of what’s allowed by campus groups and in private parties unaffiliated with the university), I’m glad to be done with this; we’ll all just agree that the mistletoe thing is a nonexample of political correctness and move on. Agreed? As for your other point about Christianity, if you want any sort of response from me you’ll need to clarify what you’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/88 "2015-12-28T23:41:00Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > “Personal holiday displays,” in this case, really means “displays put up on employer property in a way that may suggest official endorsement of the display.” Of course that’s entirely different from a person wearing a personal religious symbol–are you not clear how it’s different? I’m trying to debate in good faith here and we’re just going to have to disagree on what the cite says. To me they first say that religious decorations are ok in _private_ areas (their emphasis) and not in public areas. I’m generally fine with that. They then go on and ask members to “be respectful” of religious diversity and are “encouraged to use an inclusive” display. I take this to be their suggestion on what is (and isn’t) inclusive in private displays. (Otherwise why use “encourage”? They’ve already said that religious displays are outright banned in public areas. They also mention combining religious symbols in a single display.) If that’s true then that is overly PC. I’m done parsing PC missives. If you want to continue to disagree that’s fine. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/89 "2015-12-28T23:50:30Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > “Personal holiday displays,” in this case, really means “displays put up on employer property in a way that may suggest official endorsement of the display.” Of course that’s entirely different from a person wearing a personal religious symbol–are you not clear how it’s different? > > I truly find it remarkable that you think it’s PC for an employer to limit how an employee decorates business spaces. How far do you take this? If a McDonald’s employer put “Accept Christ into your heart this Christmas” on the marquee, and her manager made her take it down, would you consider that to be too PC? Where do you draw that line, and on what grounds? It’s the employer’s decision. Just like it’s the employer’s decision to ban personal crosses, turbans, or beanies. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/90 "2015-12-29T00:18:43Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Just like it’s the employer’s decision to ban personal crosses, turbans, or beanies. Anyone who bans beanies will have to deal with [Cecil](http://41.media.tumblr.com/49f24fee559f644652e52f32a50a54f2/tumblr_n78l6tbmJx1skqw0co1_1280.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/91 "2015-12-29T00:47:14Z")
Did you know that “political correctness” is now a microagression? > **[UWM says 'politically correct' is no longer politically correct](https://www.campusreform.org/article?id=6907)** > > The phrase 'politically correct' is now a microaggression according to the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. Fucking idiots. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/92 "2015-12-29T00:53:22Z")
The only really alarming behavior I’ve seen from college kids lately is blacks trying ban whites from campus “spaces” / meetings. Even those incidents seem to be few and far between. Yes, I see tidbits of what I’d call “PC idiocy”, but it doesn’t strike me as a big concern most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/93 "2015-12-29T00:57:01Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Did you know that “political correctness” is now a microagression? > > [Campus Reform the #1 Source for College News](http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=6907) > > Fucking idiots. Shouldn’t be a surprise since the goal is to control thought through the tactic of controlling language. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/94 "2015-12-29T01:54:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > There’s a certain amount of “can’t see the forest for the trees” here. The real PC part is that people feel the need to tell other people how they should celebrate Christmas. Here’s a thought: Let people celebrate their fucking holidays they way they want to celebrate their fucking holidays. If you don’t like the Baby Jesus themed Christmas party, don’t go. There are plenty of Santa themed ones you can attend. And if Santa offends you, maybe you should stay in your dorm room and read a book or find some like-minded friends and go out for Chinese food. If I was living in a Muslim-majority country, I’d have no reservations about celebrating with my Muslim friends. The same way I was happy to celebrate seders with my Jewish friends when I was invited. John Mace, you’ve nailed it. I’m an agnostic drifting in the atheist direction and I have absolutely no problem with traditional Christmas (except for the turkey part - I would prefer pizza) and why should I? The PC stuff is absurd IMO. Is it really that difficult to see something (eg a creche) and ignore it. Offense by something like that is a conscience decision. And on a related note, in another PC-related discussion, I mentioned an example from the University of Ottawa, in which a yoga instructor, who offered free yoga lessons, had to stop because she was accused of “cultural appropriation” because she wasn’t Indian. Cite and link below: > **[Free Ottawa yoga class scrapped over 'cultural issues'](https://ottawasun.com/2015/11/20/free-ottawa-yoga-class-scrapped-over-cultural-issues)** > > Student leaders have pulled the mat out from 60 University of Ottawa students, ending a free on-campus yoga class over fears the teachings could be seen as a form o… I like to think of political correctness as the PC term for realism-challenged. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/95 "2015-12-29T02:14:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s considered [NOT Consistent with Either University Assembly Guidelines or the University’s Commitment to Diversity and Inclusiveness.](https://sp.ehs.cornell.edu/fps/fire-code-compliance/Documents/FCC_Fire_Safety_Guidelines_for_Holidays_Decorations.pdf) So basically you have to be an art major with a cross stuck in urine or a big fan of jagermeister to indulge in Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/96 "2015-12-29T02:26:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So basically you have to be an art major with a cross stuck in urine or a big fan of jagermeister to indulge in Christmas. Since, according to the guidelines, you’re welcome to hold a midnight mass in our dorm room, or to do a traditional Christmas pageant in the theater as long as you’ve followed procedure for reserving space, that’s basically not what you have to do. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/97 "2015-12-29T02:32:46Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s the employer’s decision. Just like it’s the employer’s decision to ban personal crosses, turbans, or beanies. Except in one case it’s legally the employer’s decision, and in the other it’s not, because society is about balancing interests. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/98 "2015-12-29T02:59:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Since, according to the guidelines, you’re welcome to hold a midnight mass in our dorm room, or to do a traditional Christmas pageant in the theater as long as you’ve followed procedure for reserving space, that’s basically not what you have to do. Except I was referring to decorations visible to others. But I suspect you knew that. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/99 "2015-12-29T03:01:48Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Except I was referring to decorations visible to others. But I suspect you knew that. And nothing I said contradicts that. Students can, according to the guidelines, put religious displays in any space that they are allowed to put nonreligious displays, as long as they follow exactly the same guidelines for putting up nonreligious displays. I harbor no suspicions whatsoever about what you knew, though :). ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251/100 "2015-12-29T06:11:34Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Did you know that “political correctness” is now a microagression? > > [Campus Reform the #1 Source for College News](http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=6907) You know, I’ve seen so much liberal hypocrisy in my day that I would have thought that nothing could surprise me any more. But a major university hiring an outspoken anti-semite to work for the “Inclusive Excellence Center” and run the campaign against “microagressions”? That takes even me my surprise. On the other hand, I do like the guy’s suggestion that we [practice gender-neutral pronouns by talking to flowers](http://mediatrackers.org/wisconsin/2015/10/24/uwm-faculty-suggests-talking-orchids-practice-gender-neutral-pronouns). It shows a certain creative flair. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-talk-about-political-correctness-on-american-college-campuses/741251.md?page=6)